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OS Roundtable: How Can a College Basketball Game Have Success and Stick Around?

Chris Sanner: Let me start this roundtable in a strange sort of way, that is with a brief discussion about why college basketball gaming failed. Put simply, it failed because it didn't capture the audience's attention -- sales were low, attention was lower, and this almost always translated into an average at best game. Even when College Hoops 2K games seemed to break into the realm of being kind of good, they still sold extremely poorly.

I think considering everything, a college hoops game would have to be of just exceptional quality to even start to sell well, but the even bigger problem is that college basketball just isn't that popular from November through February in America. However, this is me framing the basis for the rest of the debate, so how about it OS staffers, can a college basketball game not only survive but thrive and how?

Jayson Young: I don't think a full-price retail game can succeed, because the average sports fan doesn't pay much attention to NCAA basketball until March, when tickets to The Big Dance start getting punched.

Perhaps the best business strategy would be to release a $15 downloadable game right after Selection Sunday, sort of like what EA Sports did with NCAA Basketball 09: March Madness Edition.

If not a downloadable game, maybe a cheaper, $30 retail game would make the best business sense.

As we've seen with College Hoops 2K8, full-priced NCAA basketball games just don't make enough money to be profitable.


Dustin Toms: It really is a shame how bad College Hoops sold as a series. Until NBA 2K11, CHoops 2K8 was the best basketball game ever made.

It really will be tough for a company to start making these games again, but if anyone can it is the team at 2K. With the insane popularity and success of 2K11, 2K could use that momentum and start selling a CHoops game again. They will have to market it like no other, and most definitely sell the point of being able to upload draft classes into the NBA counterpart.

EA, on the other hand, would make as much money as I did when I was buttering popcorn at a movie theater. Without a successful NBA franchise, there is no way EA can pull off a full college game.

To go off of what Jayson was saying about the $15 DLC, it's a great idea but it just isn't enough. It's better than nothing, but people will want to play as their favorite teams, and I don't see the Eastern Washington Eagles making the dance anytime soon. Also, the best part of a college hoops game is the recruiting. Finding McDonald's All-Americans and crazy JuCo transfers is what makes you feel like a real collegiate program.

But like I said, anything is better than nothing. And I'm sick of having nothing. So please 2K and EA, bring it back and build it into something that will sell. The ball is in your court.


Christian McLeod: It's a sad day in sports gaming when we witness one of the most unbelievable tournaments in recent history, only to be left with no video game to attempt to re-create the magic from the past two weeks. So who's to blame for the lack of a college basketball title? Is it the consumers who don't buy the product? No. I place the blame completely on the developers for lack of foresight, marketing and most of all business strategy when it comes to dealing with an NCAA hoops franchise.

For starters, instead of releasing the college title in November, less than a month after the release of the NBA titles, why not wait until January. Not only would this mean that the NCAA game would not be in direct competition with its NBA brethren, but it would also mean that the developer could further tweak the engine and add new animations/fix bugs that may have popped up in the NBA title. Additionally, by January many gamers have already played the NBA game to death (yes, we live in a disposable society), so they are looking to get their next basketball fix.

January is typically a dead zone for gaming releases, making an NCAA basketball title one of the only games on the block during this time frame. Add in the fact that by January college basketball is hitting its peak nationally with college football over and the NFL winding down, and you have a recipe for success when it comes to release dates.

The later release date means additional advertising time for the developer by default. Imagine how well a 2K NCAA hoops title would have sold this January with 2K pushing the success of NBA 2K11 at every opportunity. I can already see the commercials: "from the studio that brought you NBA 2K11 comes the most authentic college basektball experience ever..."

Look, I get it, college basketball games are never going to be a company's cash cow, but for developers to turn their back on the genre completely is just ludicrous to me. There definitely is money to be made with a college hoops franchise, especially if the development team can share the resources with the NBA counterparts (or hire some guys here at OS responsible for the impressive NCAA Basketball 2K11 mods). I, for one, am dying for an actual college basketball title to make its way back to consoles, and I am willing to spend whatever it would take. I know I'm not the only one either.

Chase Becotte: Since this question really means how can 2K Sports' College Hoops 2K series make a comeback, I will be answering it as such.

A release date that does not coincide with the start of the season, or a game that is not full price sort of flies in the face of conventional wisdom, but I like that you guys are thinking outside the box. I would tend to agree that a different release date would be a good first step.

When looking at college football, EA's game does so well partly because it kicks off the football season, so it even hits the spot for people who associate themselves more with the NFL.

Nevertheless, the college football landscape is filled with more fans than college basketball partly because more programs have an insane following when compared to college hoops, and partly because of football's inherent popularity in the country. Still, the college games have never sold as well as their professional counterparts in either football or basketball.

So my solution is a bit more simplistic. 2K simply has to try again without making any drastic changes beyond just a different release date. The NBA 2K franchise is bigger than ever -- it's unheard of for a basketball title to be the fourth best-selling game in February -- which means a simple correlation between Madden and NCAA Football perhaps just needs to be applied here. Madden is a top-selling game, and partly for that reason, NCAA Football receives some of those off-shoot sales. On the basketball side of things, instead of waiting until March, have the game release before NBA 2K is released in October. People will be so hungry for the next basketball title from 2K, it could be a great way to get people back involved with the College Hoops franchise.


Member Comments
# 21 sithlord06 @ 04/11/11 07:18 PM
Doesnt EA hold licensing to college B-Ball too? If so, I would not want their game. 2K8 was a great college game and I would welcome a DLC update for 2012, it would be incredible to see the subtle changes and college atmosphere placed on a game that I know 2K could develop. Imagine, a hyper version of 2K11 (best basketball game ever) on a college level with recruiting, March tournament, juco transfers, one and done freshmen, this should excite any true lover of hoops.
 
# 22 whittleboy615 @ 04/11/11 07:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sithlord06
Doesnt EA hold licensing to college B-Ball too? If so, I would not want their game. 2K8 was a great college game and I would welcome a DLC update for 2012, it would be incredible to see the subtle changes and college atmosphere placed on a game that I know 2K could develop. Imagine, a hyper version of 2K11 (best basketball game ever) on a college level with recruiting, March tournament, juco transfers, one and done freshmen, this should excite any true lover of hoops.
The licensing is a contract that has to be renewed/repurchased continually. Currently, no one has the license. If someone did, they would have published a game to make money. It wouldn't make sense to buy the license and just sit on it.
 
# 23 jconpoet @ 04/11/11 08:20 PM
to answer the guy that mentioned putting NCAA and NBA in the same game... I recall an SNES game doing this with football with the exception that they didn't have the NCAA or NFL licensing for the real teams and players and it was pretty good and fun for what it was in its day... and that would be the only way a game developer could put college and pro sports in the same game is without the licensing seeing as someone like Kemba Walker isn't yet in the NBA Players Union which offers their licensing to allow for majority of the NBA players to appear in games like the NBA 2K series, the NCAA license wouldn't allow for Kemba to officially be in the game only "UConn PG #15".

The best bet is for 2K to release College Hoops 2K on the same night as Midnight Madness which is the first official day of practice for college basketball teams or wait until the end of February and release it as people prepare for March Madness and the Final Four
 
# 24 Yeah...THAT Guy @ 04/11/11 08:30 PM
Could 2K make a game with one of those editors like the old NHL games had where you could take a photograph and basically scan the face into the game and couple that with 2k share and people would have a way to get their players to really look real
 
# 25 Behindshadows @ 04/11/11 11:15 PM
If they don't release one, we'll just keep modding the game.....

I agree the market for it is strong and selling it cheaper isn't going to solve the problem, it's just going to make it worse. Remember NFL 2k5 $20 now gone!

The cost of the license vs the sales of the game is what ended College Basketball games. So lowering the price will just cause more issues. So we can eliminate that suggestion, but what they do need to do is release the game before the NBA title and really market it too death with real highlights of last season.

Pump it up, during commercials of NCAA games on tv, ESPN, TNT, TBS, CBS, etc. Especially around tournament time, to sale those copies that didn't in the beginning of the season.

People will buy it, they just have to do better marketing, less on the web and more in the real world.
 
# 26 supermanemblem @ 04/12/11 02:28 AM
They can start by negotiating more favorable licensing fees with the NCAA and remind them of their mission. Now that the NCAA has gone a couple of years without the cash, exposure and interest that a game would bring, they may liwer their demands. Second, pool creative and design processes with the NBA product, economies of scale. I'm not convinced that downloadable versions or moving the date will help. They need more aggressive marketing of the product--ads, sponsorships on major network games and promotional bus tours. They can find youngsters who would love to tour the country partying and playing video games. Madden is a powerhouse and yet EA promotes the game like mad. Marketing doesn't have to be expensive to get the job done.
 
# 27 oneamongthefence @ 04/12/11 05:21 AM
As I don't religiously watch college basketball don't hang me but it seems that the difference in gameplay between college and pro is minimal. But presentation is where its at. Also integrate it into 2k.
 
# 28 Dazraz @ 04/12/11 05:46 AM
If a developer was creating a basketball game from scratch, then you could argue that it would be hard to justify those development costs against the sales forecast of a college basketball game. After all those gamers that yearn for such a game, myself amongst them, aren't really interested in a budget title with little depth.

However 2K already have the core of the basketball game to hand. All they would really need to do is convert it to the college experience. New commentators, more flamboyant college style cut scenes & revised playstyles & they could be on their way.
Ultimately we would have to be satisfied with a rebadged NBA 2K11 but I for one would go for that rather than no game at all.

Those who want a completely new college game built from the ground up could be left wanting for a long time.
 
# 29 gilla @ 04/12/11 07:21 AM
I'd love another college bball game, however it is a business and probably not enough college gamers for a company to put a development team behind it.
 
# 30 smithdynasty @ 04/12/11 12:13 PM
I thoroughly agree with the comments pertaining to the marketing of this game. The marketing team would have to do a much better job with this. Although I now prefer College Hoops 2k over NBA 2k, it wasn't always like this. It wasn't until my friend let me borrow his college hoops game that I became hooked. 2k must get hoops fans to experience the College Hoops game and then let the sales follow. I for one will be completely happy with the implementation of NBA 2k gameplay with updated shoes and uniforms and the dynasty mode from CH 2k8. I can't imagine it costing that much. Or 2k can partner with a sponsor (nike, adidas etc) to possibly cut down some of the cost which I'm sure is what they did with Brand Jordan and NBA 2k11.
 
# 31 steelernut @ 04/12/11 02:29 PM
I would luv to see 2k come back with college again. I remember playing the last installment of the game, and I liked it better than NBA 2k to be honest. I was sad when I heard they stopped it. I believe if they bring it back it would sell great. Back then college basketball didn't get as much coverage as it does today. Nowadays sport media covers even the highschoolers to see who will be the next college star. People are more into high-school and college basketball versus when 2k started the college series. I hope they bring it back!
 
# 32 Boogiemanjay @ 04/12/11 05:12 PM
Like I said if you have a copy of ch2k8 just imaging it as my player mode I'll say it again if you add my player mode to the choops series and reward the buyers by having them more develop before entering the draft or
Being the number one pick tell me that it want sale just as NCAA football compelments madden guys let be real it's all about sim these day and leaving out a choops game kills the full experience
 
# 33 Yeah...THAT Guy @ 04/12/11 07:05 PM
If 2K WERE to make CH2k12 or 13 or whatever, all I would really want is the same legacy mode with slightly more realistic results come tournament time and stuff, better zone defense and presses, and My Player mode. That would instantly make it the best basketball game out there in my opinion.
 
# 34 jerryrice4949 @ 04/13/11 01:34 AM
2k stopped making a game because the licensing fee was ridiculous for the game. Sales was not that bad, over 300,000 and the platform base is much bigger 5 years into release. If you extrapolate sales to many more people owning a ps3 or 360 sales would probably be well over 500,000 which would not be bad of the NCAA changed a reasonable licensing fee for the game.
 
# 35 whittleboy615 @ 04/13/11 02:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryrice4949
2k stopped making a game because the licensing fee was ridiculous for the game. Sales was not that bad, over 300,000 and the platform base is much bigger 5 years into release. If you extrapolate sales to many more people owning a ps3 or 360 sales would probably be well over 500,000 which would not be bad of the NCAA changed a reasonable licensing fee for the game.
I think it's fairly safe to say that the College Hoops series did not sell well when compared to other major sports games that require similar licensing fees. Below, I have compiled a rather comprehensive list of stats from the 2007-08 sports/racing game library using VGChartz. It's no coincidence that the four franchises at the bottom of the list were cancelled.


Xbox 360, PS3, and PS2 Combined Current Total Sales According to VGChartz.com:

$6,433,822 - Pro Evolution Soccer 2008
$6,269,448 - Need for Speed: ProStreet
$6,140,607 - FIFA Soccer 08
$5,577,925 - Madden NFL 08
$4,776,107 - WWE SmackDown vs Raw 2008
$4,080,592 - Forza MotorSport 2 (no PS3, PS2)
$1,955,178 - NBA 2K8
$1,812,204 - NBA Live 08
$1,769,037 - NCAA Football 08
$1,559,525 - Tiger Woods PGA Tour 08
$1,061,829 - Top Spin 3 (no PS2)
$1,031,285 - MLB 08: The Show (no 360)
$991,600 - MLB 2K8
$952,285 - Virtua Tennis 3 (no PS2)
$626,478 - NASCAR 08
$497,448 - NHL 08 (no PS2)
$477, 983 - College Hoops 2K8
$441,904 - NCAA March Madness 08
$417,126 - All-Pro Football 2K8 (no PS2)
$217,007 - NHL 2K8 (no PS2)
 
# 36 delija66 @ 04/13/11 02:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whittleboy615
I think it's fairly safe to say that the College Hoops series did not sell well when compared to other major sports games that require similar licensing fees. Below, I have compiled a rather comprehensive list of stats from the 2007-08 game library using VGChartz. It's no coincidence that the four franchises at the bottom of the list were cancelled.


Xbox 360, PS3, and PS2 Combined Current Total Sales According to VGChartz.com:

$6,433,822 - Pro Evolution Soccer 2008
$6,140,607 - FIFA Soccer 08
$5,577,925 - Madden NFL 08
$4,776,107 - WWE SmackDown vs Raw 2008
$1,955,178 - NBA 2K8
$1,812,204 - NBA Live 08
$1,769,037 - NCAA Football 08
$1,559,525 - Tiger Woods PGA Tour 08
$1,061,829 - Top Spin 3 (no PS2)
$1,031,285 - MLB 08: The Show (no 360)
$991,600 - MLB 2K8
$952,285 - Virtua Tennis 3 (no PS2)
$497,448 - NHL 08 (no PS2)
$477, 983 - College Hoops 2K8
$441,904 - NCAA March Madness 08
$417,126 - All-Pro Football 2K8 (no PS2)
$217,007 - NHL 2K8 (no PS2)
Go PES! hahaaa
 
# 37 Roggie @ 04/13/11 03:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whittleboy615
I think it's fairly safe to say that the College Hoops series did not sell well when compared to other major sports games that require similar licensing fees. Below, I have compiled a rather comprehensive list of stats from the 2007-08 game library using VGChartz. It's no coincidence that the four franchises at the bottom of the list were cancelled.


Xbox 360, PS3, and PS2 Combined Current Total Sales According to VGChartz.com:

$6,433,822 - Pro Evolution Soccer 2008
$6,140,607 - FIFA Soccer 08
$5,577,925 - Madden NFL 08
$4,776,107 - WWE SmackDown vs Raw 2008
$1,955,178 - NBA 2K8
$1,812,204 - NBA Live 08
$1,769,037 - NCAA Football 08
$1,559,525 - Tiger Woods PGA Tour 08
$1,061,829 - Top Spin 3 (no PS2)
$1,031,285 - MLB 08: The Show (no 360)
$991,600 - MLB 2K8
$952,285 - Virtua Tennis 3 (no PS2)
$626,478 - NASCAR 08
$497,448 - NHL 08 (no PS2)
$477, 983 - College Hoops 2K8
$441,904 - NCAA March Madness 08
$417,126 - All-Pro Football 2K8 (no PS2)
$217,007 - NHL 2K8 (no PS2)
5 out of the bottom 6 are gone. No more NASCAR either (at least EA's version, which hadn't been good since 06.) NHL 08 at the bottom though is shocking, but then I remember NHL 09 was the turning point in that series.
 
# 38 Barbatrucco @ 04/13/11 05:39 AM
College Hoops 2K8 is still consider the best basketball game ever. You dont consider an aspect: college basketball style is very close to european basketball games and rumorous crowd. College basketball i very popular in Europe, and Europe is cut away from market. College basketball consolle games, for example, runs only on Playstation in Europe, but not for xbox 360, because College Baskettball game are made in NTSC format, while european consolle run in PAL format.

Nba 2K11 is sell in all World. College hoops basketball didnt run in european Xbox consolle, while Europe he's a great market for college basketball games.
 
# 39 imhim312 @ 04/13/11 01:00 PM
The way to go is a college basketball my player mode starting out from maybe the McDonald's all American game and having a press conference to announce your college choice and starting from there
 
# 40 Yeah...THAT Guy @ 04/13/11 01:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roggie
5 out of the bottom 6 are gone. No more NASCAR either (at least EA's version, which hadn't been good since 06.) NHL 08 at the bottom though is shocking, but then I remember NHL 09 was the turning point in that series.
NASCAR just came out with a game a few weeks ago...

Edit: Not sure who made it though
 


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