I bought both of these games and sold them right back. Terrible. Patches are ruining games, I refuse to have something fixed after I already dropped 60 dollars. Give me my finished product on the date you are supposed to. Patches have become crutches for EA, and Madden and NCAA are still hopping on one leg right now. I'm going to go play 2K5.

Bottom line EA/Tib will never catch up to 2k5...never. They just do not have the know how. I do however feel these games are a small step forward from the past few years pieces of junk that that sold and said were football games.

you make some excellent points especially about Madden. I can not for the life of me understand what 2k did that is so difficult for Madden to capture. I like the new Madden but I realize that I only like it so much because it is a lot better than 05-09.

I can remember buying 2k5 and thinking 20 bucks I'll just fiddle with this a little till Madden comes out. I was blown away, bought the new Madden anyways thinking if this game looks and plays like this then I know Madden is gonna blow this away. Wrong, couldn't even play 05...waited the whole year thinking I know 06 is gonna eat 2k5 alive. Wrong, bought 06 hated it, used the ratings to add and update 2k5 rosters manually and traded it back in. I lied to myself from 05 to 09 which is the only Maden I've been able to play and kind of enjoy until this year.

My point is EA has the only gig in town and needs to do everything in their power to represent America's passion. I don't know if its comical or just sad that Madden is still being 1 upped by a game made in 04. As far as video games goes it is a crime that Madden doesn't have the basic things seen on Sundays and in 2k.

Blocking - perfect plays are being destroyed by terrible blocking. I mean lineman are moving to random locations on the field and letting defenders run free. If I'm in a 2 TE single back set against a 3 man front shouldn't there be some kind of running lane.

Challenges- I miss not only being able to challenge but you had to choose the correct challenge out of 5 or 6 options. Challenge the wrong option and you just wasted a challenge.

Commentary - Where to start? There is no emotion whatsoever. It is beyond generic and half the time it doesn't make sense. My big issue is the crowd where is it. Shouldn't it respond to significant situations in a game. Should it not make you feel that your in a pressure situation and the crowd plays a part in that. If you score a game winning touchdown in the superbowl shouldn't the crowd literally explode instead of someone sounding like their blowing in a tin can for four quarters.

I've said I know that QBs have signature throwing but wha about the rest of the players. WRs run like lineman and running backs and Fbs and linebackers oh I forgot DBs run different because if they catch a pick they run with the ball in one hand like a loaf of bread through traffic and everything.

Penalties - no comment well maybe one or two I have lost games due to being moved out of extra point...not field goal...extra point range on holding penalties. Who's testing these games wouldn't this put up a red flag during testing. They can pay me to test Madden because someone is dropping the ball.

I don't even know if I like Madden anymore or just buy it every year out of habit hoping to be blown away. I really wish that they would hire some of the 2k staff to help them right this ship.

@ shavane, Cdenz, and enfilade22 I agree with you 100%! And I find it very suspicious that Ian (Lead Designer) and others have disappeared and not answered for alot of these short comings! THere is no real excuse!

i agree wit everything that was said...i really stopped playin M10 in like a week!bottom line 2k5 set the standard on how nfl football should be pertrayed in every aspect...from lineman blockin right run animation,commentary...franchise mode was just the best ever period...man once they show highlights of other games i was hooked...! that was nfl football. the nfl gave their rights to the wrong company...have anyone imagine if those rights was givin to 2k man we wouldnt be complaining an askin for fricken patches...man i didnt even like 2k5 controlls,but i learned to like it...thats how much i enjoyed the gameplay an the overall feel of 2k5.


for the first time ever next year im not pre-ordering madden at all! im waiting an im renting it...! why this year EA Ian cummings had me bucked-up & hyped for nothing really i just watch the cpu vs cpu...an thats not even in broadcast mode..! it just got 2 the point im not wasting $60 bucks anymore i would have to see the final outcome,so i will rent now!an if M11 SUCKS just giving up on EA and the whole madden series...i'm 32yrs old i've been playin these football games since 10 yard fight...an i can honestly say in 2004 espn football 2k5 was the best an still is the best nfl football game i ever played hands down.

I'm with ya SaintsNATION32! Madden 11 will not even get my RENTAL dollar unless they PROVE themselves by presenting the right stuff IN the game. No more false promises....and if we have to use sliders to make the game we PAID for work properly.....its not the truth!

And I am not going to even get into all of the cutscenes that are done so sloppily! You see QBs on the phone at the wrong time, Linemen being dove on like they ran the kickoff return for a TD etc.....its just very poorly done!

funny I actually heard someone say that after you adjust sliders that the lineman block a lot better...is this something you should have to adjust sliders for shouldn't good blocking be the default setting. What do you do if you take the time to adjust every slider on the game to the perfect optimal settings and then go play at your homeboys house with a different set of sliders you wouldn't know what to do lmao!

@Joeyland....Thats the problem..."we all buy it anyway"! And its time we stop buying (Madden 10 sales are not stellar by any means by the way) and start seeing how we can get a new NFL and CFB game within 2 years timing.

We should not have to tweak sliders in order to make a game work, somewhat properly....its just a crying shame. I like Madden 10 for what it is....but it is FAR from where it should be.

M10 doesn't play like football at all! Every aspect of football is misrepresented, from the special teams, lineman play, running game, passing game, sidelines, coin toss, player intros, crowd, and the play calling system.

Special Teams-You can return kickoffs for TD's with ease because the players run around without a clue about pursuit, staying in their lanes, and attacking the ball carrier. The fg's are way too easy, except when holding is called over and over again.

O Line Play-Enough people have commented about this. All I have to ask, is when have we ever seen the ball snapped and a LG do a 180 turn and step out of the way so the RB can get blown up?

D Line play-D ends like Osi and even less caliber ends have the ability to jump 5ft in the air or magically, sorry impossibly pivot on the wrong foot to intercept passes.

Running Game-Is atrocious! Because the o-lineman don't block properly and controlling the RB's doesn't feel natural. As the user, you can move the d-pad/left stick to attempt to go in a certain direction and the RB starts making all these strange and unnecessary cuts/jukes. Also, when have we ever seen RB's try and break tackles standing up? Why don't we see RB's in this game lowering their heads and shoulders to lay the boom on a defender to gain more yards? It's just not realistic in M10 and is poorly executed.

Passing game-Is the over the shoulder catch the only way receivers catch passes in real life? This is grotesque to look at! Qb's still are able to pass off of their back foot while running or back pedaling way too effectively. Why do the DB's drop the easiest interceptions, but then make the ridiculous 1 handed pick on a bullet pass? It's hilarious how EA makes the animation slow down so we can be wowed by this unrealistic and garbage animation. And why are receivers (Rb's included) running out of bounds during their routes? Also they never drag or tap the toes. This is just blatant disrespect for the game of football and its intricacies.

Sidelines-Are we watching the movies Powder and Multiplicity simultaneously? Just absolutely horrid! The players really all wear double 0....unreal! Where are the cheerleaders and mascots? Hello???

Coin toss/Player Intros-Where are the pre-game greetings and the verbal chatter between the players? APF2k8 has it, among many other things. What happened to the player intros and showing starting lineups for the offense and defense? Because without them, it truly feels like authentic broadcast presentation. Speaking of a broadcast...lose Collinsworth and Hammonds. I've completely turned them off and I've never turned off announcers in any game. They make the user feel like they're playing Madden on a short yellow bus. I guess by turning off the commentary we get to hear the amazing crowd...

Crowd appearance and noise-Being able to hear the same shrieky voices yell out, "woo-hoo" and "that's my man" and "yeah yeah" is pitiful at best. The crowd noise at times should be deafening, especially with surround sound! Where are the different chants(J-E-T-S anyone) around the stadiums, the smattering of boo's for certain players, plays, and calls? What about when Isaac Bruce catches a pass and the crowd yells Bruuuuce? As the Monday Night Countdown Crew would say, "Come on man!"

Play Calling System-Why is it so difficult to call plays now? Navigating the play call screen was so much better on last gen when we could see a total of 9 plays. 3 diagrams in the middle (displaying hash marks that are mysteriously missing in M10 so you can be reminded what side of the field you're on) and a row at the top and bottom showing the names of the plays available to you. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! Setting audibles is a pain in the rear also! Again, it use to be so much easier to set them, along with hot routes for your user profile. Speaking of which, where the heck is my user profile with all of my stats (offense, defense, special teams, effeciency, last 10 games, W/L record)??? Haven't been able to find that for 2 weeks!

I'm tired and need to go to sleep! It's obvious in this reply that I like many others have a tremendous amount of passion for the game of football. I used to include Madden in that sentence, but now I don't. I have so much more feedback to give on this game because it needs to be resurrected from the dead! Even minor things like the photos of Fitz and Troy P are just glaze over a decaying donut! What happened to multiple video intros with various players, coaches, fans, and yeah, oh, um smokin' hot cheerleaders? What happened to different images/photos and videos of players in the background on the main menu and during loading times? Do you see how deep this rabbit hole could go??? The game has only been out 2 weeks, yet many of thousands of consumers are already echoing the same disheartening yearly frustration. In closing, NBA 2K10 can't come soon enough and thanks to them and The Show for staying true to the game and allowing us to experience sports gaming at it's finest!

I won't bash EA for this years Madden because I think it's nice to see the game gets into the right direction. The game is not flawless by any means. Some of the things that you guys are mentioned getting fixed if you play on PRO setting (things like blocking etc.). If you think about it a game is developed on only one setting. If you now play on another level to make it competitive the computer is going to screw you to make it an even game (screwing means that your own players doesn't block or that you wide open reciever gets stopped by an imaginal wall so that the AI can catch up... there is a guy on youtube who showed it pretty well... I think his name is versuz... you should probably check his videos out)

I personally think that the Madden team simply puts their priorities wrong. Everything they added this year is nice (not everything perfectly implented). All the new gear... broadcast style... it's all nice and part of the game... but the most important thing for everyone should be gameplay. I don't buy Madden because of the detailed stadiums or real looking grass. I buy it because I wanna play football. Madden simply puts way too much time in their new gimmick what they bring out every year. Gameplay really needs an overhaul...

QB drop back is really one of the best things they did... and let it in the game...

I mean it starts out with simple things... who in the hell really thinks that the player models running look good or realistic should really be fired... starting up with something simple like that that you see every down I really don't get how you can't see it. Either they don't or they don't have time for that.

Animations are missing all over... players doesn't know where the field ends or simply doesn't care... physics are not respected... referees arguing about plays that a real life ref would never do... running animations when it comes to juking, changing direction (you get low with your body if changing and turn straight if you excel)... RB's draging DT's over the field etc. so many things...

I personally think that 2k5 is not perfect but it is a hell of a lot fun playing it. It has many great things that would put well into Madden. I had never the privlege of playing All-Pro but seeing the running animations from this game is really great and should be definitely worth a look for Madden.

Short said... 2k simply does the core elements of a game good... they probably lack a bit of graphics and everything BUT EA should finally learn... that it's not all about graphics... I mean they must get it somehow... 2k5 is still so beloved and this game is 5 years old... and it's not beloved because of there great graphics... the core elements are right... I hope Madden get's that at one point... I even think that many of us would have no problem if they let out Be a Superstar-Mode for one year and everything elso too (with the exception of Franchise) and simply work on GAMEPLAY.

It's it for starters!!!

@ Stikskillz in addition to agreeing with you: Last night I was playing as the Raiders and the defensive end for KC dropped into coverage on Darrius Bey-Heyward and ran with him stride for stride and picked off the ball!!!! I threw a 40+yard pass! Bey-Heywards 40 time was nice!!! How did a FAT defensive end play like Champ Bailey!!!!!! EA is just blowing my mind with how many things are so blatantly wrong with this game!!!!

@jkaisen41...simply put 2K puts faaar more emphasis on the details on the details of their game...EA gives "good Graphics", nothing mind blowing considering its Next-Gen...and they under deliver on the goods! 2K is just better IMHO

@bigsmallwood

I think it's really because EA is a big company. They simply have to have something new every year (a new big feature... most of them disapear after one installment because they suck). So they invest time in that instead of fixing gameplay.

2K doesn't throw out new mode after new mode... new feature after feature... they do their thing and do it right... I mean 2K basketball was way better then EA's for years now and how long did they wait before they release a version of be a Superstar-Mode... EA does that but before fixing their problems... 2K does theirs right... fixes his problems and then does something new... that's how it supposed to be... I mean if the groundwork is wrong everything that follows on top is wrong too... and gameplay is the groundwork... but that would mean that they really have to scrap everything and can't probably do a new feature and hype the s*** out of it.

Ya this is probably the last 2K fanboy post for a while, hope you have fun hibernating until you try to ruin the game for others next year. yes it has some problems but you overexaggerate. It is still a fun game for many people, sorry you don't have as much fun as me.