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floppychulo · 05-25-2009, 06:44 PM

I know this is a touchy subject, but for a person who doesn't play online, I'm curious about the whole "cheesing" thing and why folks get sooo bent out of shape. I've read on different threads about formation subs being bad because people would put non-qb's in their lineups to gain an advantage. Teams do this in real life, so what's the problem? Look at UVA. They used Vic Hall, a high school QB and starting CB to play QB. Hell, he's atop the post spring depth chart. Then there is the whole "Wildcat" phenomenon. A big part of football is getting your best players on the gridiron, and putting them in positions to make plays by taking advantage of mismatches. Does any of that count as cheese? Again, I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers I'm just asking. What if your playing someone with a weird man crush on Mike Leach and is passing the ball just about every down and wants to go for it on 4th and 8 from their own 30 early in the first quarter for no good reason? Just wondering.

steelers1 · 05-25-2009, 10:23 PM

The going for it on 4th and 8 is cheesing and really annoying because that's not real football. No coach in his right mind would ever go for it on a 4th down from deep in their own territory early in the game.

And it wouldn't be a problem to put speedy guys in at QB if the game had proper physics. The problem is that you can put a CB or WR in at QB and scramble around for 15 seconds and without even slowing down can turn and throw across his body 15 yards behind the LOS and complete a pass. It's not realistic and it's annoying.

rhombic21 · 05-25-2009, 10:45 PM

The biggest issue with non-QBs at QB is that the game doesn't give you the players, it just gives you the offensive personnel. If you sub a non-QB position player in as the backup QB, and then use package subs to randomly put him in the game to run QB runs, the game displays it as the same personnel grouping that is used when the regular QB is out there. If you use one of the formations that is designed for a package sub with a non-QB player (such as wildcat), it will give you the correct personnel grouping. Generally, non-QB players do not have good enough throwing ratings to be a legitimate pass threat, but the problem is that since the defense never knows when they have been subbed into the game, you can only make adjustments at the line, rather than calling plays in the huddle designed to stop the run and/or contain a scramble.

In reality though, most of the truly harcore cheesing doesn't involve that, or really even going for it on fourth down. It primarily involves taking mobile QBs and scrambling around in completely unrealistic ways after the ball is snapped, and using certain defensive formations/alignments (the quarters show blitz alignment in particular) that are unrealistically effective. It also involves abusing certain plays that are extremely over effective, such as HB and WR screen passes, which are effectively impossible to defend consistently without making yourself completely vulnerable to virtually any other playcall. Other examples would be things such as putting a HB in at FB, and then running FB dives repeatedly (mixing in toss plays and passing plays).

In terms of going for it on fourth down, that's not a huge problem, but it's really just a function of the way that the game plays. Offense is generally fairly easy on the game, which means that a 4th and 8 is not as difficult to convert as it would be in real life, and is therefore less risky to go for.

Cheesing can also involve things like kicking onsides kicks repeatedly, or poor sportsmanship manuevers, such as running up the score.

steelers1 · 05-25-2009, 10:52 PM

Luckily, Season Showdown will completely eliminate all the cheesing.

knighthawksfan · 05-25-2009, 10:59 PM

I am glad that ea is doing there best to get rid of cheesing because it is stupid how people be going for it on fourth down and stuff like that in there own red zone. Plus it will make people use real life football stragety to beat people online. Well ea keep up the good work to make online games enjoyable and fun because cheesing is just wrong.

GoBlue10 · 05-25-2009, 11:10 PM

i wish ea would bring back fair play

leetdemon · 05-25-2009, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoBlue10


	i wish ea would bring back fair play

me too

blackscorpion11 · 05-25-2009, 11:32 PM

My view on cheesing is anything that intentionally takes advantage of CPU AI tendencies/ mistakes. Examples.. DL slow? Cheese= drop qb back 15-20yds or roll to sideline at snap to buy extra time for receivers to separate.

I had a guy cheese one time by going no huddle from the start of the game.. That lasted only until i took the lead and stopped him on defense.

cheesing takes the fun out of the game because A: it's a form of cheating, B: it makes the game about cheesing and counter-cheesing and not about football.

05-25-2009, 06:44 PM	#1
floppychulo Rookie OVR: 3 Join Date: Jul 2008	Cheesing I know this is a touchy subject, but for a person who doesn't play online, I'm curious about the whole "cheesing" thing and why folks get sooo bent out of shape. I've read on different threads about formation subs being bad because people would put non-qb's in their lineups to gain an advantage. Teams do this in real life, so what's the problem? Look at UVA. They used Vic Hall, a high school QB and starting CB to play QB. Hell, he's atop the post spring depth chart. Then there is the whole "Wildcat" phenomenon. A big part of football is getting your best players on the gridiron, and putting them in positions to make plays by taking advantage of mismatches. Does any of that count as cheese? Again, I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers I'm just asking. What if your playing someone with a weird man crush on Mike Leach and is passing the ball just about every down and wants to go for it on 4th and 8 from their own 30 early in the first quarter for no good reason? Just wondering.

05-25-2009, 10:23 PM	#2
steelers1 Pro OVR: 9 Join Date: Dec 2007	Re: Cheesing The going for it on 4th and 8 is cheesing and really annoying because that's not real football. No coach in his right mind would ever go for it on a 4th down from deep in their own territory early in the game. And it wouldn't be a problem to put speedy guys in at QB if the game had proper physics. The problem is that you can put a CB or WR in at QB and scramble around for 15 seconds and without even slowing down can turn and throw across his body 15 yards behind the LOS and complete a pass. It's not realistic and it's annoying.

05-25-2009, 10:45 PM	#3
rhombic21 Pro OVR: 9 Join Date: Jul 2002	Re: Cheesing The biggest issue with non-QBs at QB is that the game doesn't give you the players, it just gives you the offensive personnel. If you sub a non-QB position player in as the backup QB, and then use package subs to randomly put him in the game to run QB runs, the game displays it as the same personnel grouping that is used when the regular QB is out there. If you use one of the formations that is designed for a package sub with a non-QB player (such as wildcat), it will give you the correct personnel grouping. Generally, non-QB players do not have good enough throwing ratings to be a legitimate pass threat, but the problem is that since the defense never knows when they have been subbed into the game, you can only make adjustments at the line, rather than calling plays in the huddle designed to stop the run and/or contain a scramble. In reality though, most of the truly harcore cheesing doesn't involve that, or really even going for it on fourth down. It primarily involves taking mobile QBs and scrambling around in completely unrealistic ways after the ball is snapped, and using certain defensive formations/alignments (the quarters show blitz alignment in particular) that are unrealistically effective. It also involves abusing certain plays that are extremely over effective, such as HB and WR screen passes, which are effectively impossible to defend consistently without making yourself completely vulnerable to virtually any other playcall. Other examples would be things such as putting a HB in at FB, and then running FB dives repeatedly (mixing in toss plays and passing plays). In terms of going for it on fourth down, that's not a huge problem, but it's really just a function of the way that the game plays. Offense is generally fairly easy on the game, which means that a 4th and 8 is not as difficult to convert as it would be in real life, and is therefore less risky to go for. Cheesing can also involve things like kicking onsides kicks repeatedly, or poor sportsmanship manuevers, such as running up the score.

05-25-2009, 10:52 PM	#4
steelers1 Pro OVR: 9 Join Date: Dec 2007	Re: Cheesing Luckily, Season Showdown will completely eliminate all the cheesing.

05-25-2009, 10:59 PM	#5
knighthawksfan Rookie OVR: 24 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Phoenix AZ Blog Entries: 30	Re: Cheesing I am glad that ea is doing there best to get rid of cheesing because it is stupid how people be going for it on fourth down and stuff like that in there own red zone. Plus it will make people use real life football stragety to beat people online. Well ea keep up the good work to make online games enjoyable and fun because cheesing is just wrong.

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05-25-2009, 11:10 PM	#6
GoBlue10 Rookie OVR: 4 Join Date: May 2008	Re: Cheesing i wish ea would bring back fair play

05-25-2009, 11:32 PM	#8
blackscorpion11 Pro OVR: 13 Join Date: Oct 2008	Re: Cheesing My view on cheesing is anything that intentionally takes advantage of CPU AI tendencies/ mistakes. Examples.. DL slow? Cheese= drop qb back 15-20yds or roll to sideline at snap to buy extra time for receivers to separate. I had a guy cheese one time by going no huddle from the start of the game.. That lasted only until i took the lead and stopped him on defense. cheesing takes the fun out of the game because A: it's a form of cheating, B: it makes the game about cheesing and counter-cheesing and not about football.