Surprise Onside: What It Means for Madden - vln13's Blog

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Surprise Onside: What It Means for Madden

Posted on October 20, 2010 at 12:45 AM.

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A few days ago, Ian Cummings, creative director of Madden, debated Pastapadre on Twitter about implementing Surprise Onside Kicks in Madden 12 (since it played a key part in Super Bowl 44 and was used several times recently):

Quote:


	Pastapadre: And yet another surprise onside kick. #missingfrommadden Ian_Cummings: you�d rather have in essence a �cheese� play than fundamental gameplay improvements? I�m not a fan. Pastapadre: why call it a �cheese play�? It carries risk. �Cheese� to me is exploiting a flaw. Not replicating real life NFL Pastapadre: risk-reward tactic employed by NFL coaches to shift momentum. Only is done relatively rarely because of field position risk. Ian_Cummings: because everyone will run it non-stop and there will be all kinds of backlash about fixing it. It�s not core to sim gameplay. Ian_Cummings: NFL ratio is now what�1 out of 5000 kicks is surprise onside? How many do you think will be called in Madden? Pastapadre: Why don�t people run onside kicks non-stop then? Ian_Cummings: big difference�your opponent knows it is coming, and even if not, he can audible. This is a free hidden shot at an extra poss. Pastapadre: then you�re saying outlaw fake punts too? Just like surprise onsides they are high risk and only done selectively for a reason Ian_Cummings: I�d rather focus on the core issues than adding a play that will just add trouble. Ian_Cummings: I�d love to add everything, but we need to pick highest priorities (that also hopefully don�t cause griefing) Ian_Cummings: obvious you aren�t going to budge on this. But those EXIST. This would have to be BUILT. Not worth it with other priorities. Pastapadre: try not to feature a play unavailable in Madden on the intro video in the future then at least Pastapadre: appreciate the dialogue regardless, I just don�t agree with the thinking on this. Ian_Cummings: name something that drives you crazy about Madden AI or animation from 11, or for years�and we�ll prioritize together Ian_Cummings: no doubt it will eventually get in�hell maybe in 12�but it�s not at the top for me due to prev-mentioned issues Pastapadre: My #1 might be effective play action. Quicker/signature QB PA animations. Ian_Cummings: good one�need to use rating better also. So which would you rather get- Effective PA (used >10x per game), or surprise onside? Ian_Cummings: both require new CPU AI, new animations & mocap, and playbook support�very similar in dev cost. Pastapadre: The answer is obvious, I dont debate that. Just consider things like SOK is somewhat symbolic for missing things in the game.

As you can probably see, there are legitimate arguments for both sides. Cummings is right when he says that working, improved play action is more fundamental to the game than a fake onside kick. Yet, the more I read this, the less I agree with Cummings.

I understand that something like a fake onside kick requires mocap sessions and extended development time that could be better used on play action. And, I understand that Madden has a large but still overachieving crew for their task. Cummings will obviously make the practical choice on this one, one in a line of decisions that, for the most part, have made Madden one of the quintessential video game franchises (leaving out the Vision Cone, lol.) The thing is, back on the previous generations of consoles, Madden was the innovator for all sports titles. Franchise mode and numerous other things came from it. On this generation, Madden began underwhelming but is now gaining steam, but they still aren't the initiators. If you look at games like MLB The Show, NBA 2k, or even EA's own FIFA, these are games that have been solid fundamentally, yet capture an unbelievable number of details pertaining to their sport - the Splash Count in San Francisco's AT&T Park, the unique arena sounds, the broken sticks - these are all projects that take, more or less, development time. Madden, though respectable, doesn't come close in the amount of detail. And a surprise onside kick made a lasting impression in the Super Bowl featured in the intro video (and several games this season.)

You could easily say that Madden is dealing with a more complicated sport to simulate in a game, with a staggering amount of collision detection and precise animations needed. Continue to read through the lines, though, and I don't think this is the whole story. Cummings continues to make more points which sound like excuses, showing that difficulty is not the only thing holding this back. There is a sense of patronization towards the gamers, claiming that, in essence, we will all ruin it because it will be used endlessly online, when, in reality, it is only used in the rarest of circumstances. If you look at the current playbook, though, there are already several plays like this - the fake punt, the fake field goal, and even the regular onside kick. Yet, in all the ranked games I have played this year, I have never had anyone EVER attempt a fake punt of field goal. There were a few stupid 4th down decisions deep inside their own territory, but nothing that ruined the experience, and it always seems at least somewhat logical.

I would say to Ian, "You always talk about data, data, data. Look at the data on special teams fakes!"

There is a sense of mistrust here that, to me, is very irritating, and may be part of the reason a lot of gamers do not trust EA and would practically sell their soul for NFL 2k12. At least have a definitive reason, in my opinion. Maybe a real compromise can be reached, as Pasta suggested. It was still nice of him, however, to discuss this with Pastapadre, and at least some debate is better than no debate.