thescoop's Blog
Creating a High School Football Game: Revisited
High School football brings passion. In the state of Texas it is almost a religion of its own. The question is why haven't we seen a high school football title of its own?
Sure, there are several reasons they can come up with as to why they couldn't do it. Reason like, how could we get license to all those schools? What states do we choose? It just isn't practical, it wouldn’t sell, etc.
Those would be some of the reason you'd expect to hear from the game makers of the world. But there are several ways it could work and would make it a top seller.
First off, some might say a regional release so Texas High School football gets its due and those in other states get their fix as well. This idea wouldn't work too well because you still face the problem getting all the schools in every state.
I have better idea. You release High School Football USA and make one of the first things you do is select your state. If you live in Mississippi, Georgia, Florida or even the before mentioned Texas, you'll know you're schools most likely.
After you've selected your state you can choose how many classes your state has in high school football. It would go from 1a to 6a. You then get to choose from randomly generated teams by the computer or given the option to create your schools. This way you ensure your high school isn't left out and at the same time allows you to enjoy creating the teams.
The creation shouldn't be a simple generic logo like we've seen in past NCAA football title's create-a-school feature. It would need to be deep and allow you to be able to create even the logo. I’m thinking Teambuilder for High School teams. Go look at current Teambuilder teams and you’ll see a good number of the teams are high school teams. If you go back to my original blog post, I original said something about being able to upload logos and Teambuilder gives us this. Lets use it to build a High School football game, please! Doing this too also means some of us who enjoy building teams can have the teams built before the title releases and people can download them and start right away.
Using Teambuilder as a base, one thing they need to fix right away is not being able to see logos unless you’re hooked up online. This is something that has always bothered me. For this game that would need to be fixed. For people that don’t have Xbox Live, but borrowed a friend’s internet just to get the teams, they shouldn’t be forced to use generic logos. Also, some type of more defined logo creator, much like the one on Backbreaker, would be a welcome edition for those without internet.
Next up EA locker or something like it, depending on who the developer is of this title needs to be there. That way if someone is crazy about high school football in your state does all the editing and gets the entire player names in there, you can download them from there if you're too lazy. Of course with a web app like Teambuilder, you have this, but of course if they go in-game custom teams, we’d need something like this to share our teams.
OK, we've gotten the teams out of the way so what next? Well, we'd need some sort of mode to keep people playing. No superstar or campus legend mode. We want something that focuses on the team. The best idea is a dynasty mode that features the ups and downs of a high school football coach.
First off you aren't going be recruiting your talent. In high school you are supposed to be playing with the hand you’re dealt. I know some schools don't play by these rules, but in my game you are. Sure you might get lucky and have some stud for another team move to your town in the off-season, but you won't be recruiting him. It’s just dumb luck or a direct result of your success. I'll explain that last part later.
First off, you'll have to deal with your local newspaper. Every town in High School Football USA is going to have a different personality to its team. I say let the user choose what type of town it is, from crazed to tame or middle. If you are in a crazed town, you're always one loss or two away from being run out of town. You're local paper will be the leading voice for or against you. You can think of the movie and TV show Friday Night Lights for an example.
In a crazed town, even if you're in a year where the talent isn't there, they still expect greatness from you, maybe at least a division title. In a tame town you'll be given a lot of rope because they really don't care. Middle is where they care about the football, but will be more understanding of a down year, but you better come through in those years you're suppose to.
Your success as a coach can change a town's reaction to the team. If you start off with a tame town and win a couple of championships, you might make that tame town become a crazed town because they want that success every year.
Also, as a coach if you're successful, you might be offered jobs by other schools. If you're in tame town and win it all, expect someone from a crazed town or a middle town to come calling. You might also see some talent players move to your town because their parents want to see you coach them to greatness. But with all this comes more pressure.
Also, if you are fired from a crazed town, you might have to start over with a tame town. Tame town are usually low on talent so you will have to really work hard with what you have to try and climb back up that ladder. Of course, if you were a successful coach who hired by a tame town, that could make expectations rise and turn the town up from tame. Of course, the talent is still the team, but your rep makes them expect more from you.
Also as coach you've got to deal with injuries and other issues. If a kid's grades are suffering you might have to figure out ways to keep him playing. You could make it where you fudge the numbers and risk getting in trouble or you could simply make sure he has all the help he needs to pass. Fudging the number could result in you getting caught and the team being suspended from post season play or it could result in your players’ attitudes getting worse. Bad player attitudes result in more off the field issues.
With off the field issues you will also have to manage team character. Team character will define the type of coach you are. Your star player is a true stud, but can't stay out of trouble. You'll have to decide to sit him, cut him or just put up with it so you can win football games. No matter what you decide, the local paper will have an opinion on it.
Also, you have the local booster club breathing down your neck too. They bring money into your program so you better be listening, but sometimes they might ask you to do something you don't feel is right. Do it and you might get a jumbotron. Don't and you might have a tough time getting even basic stadium up-keep approved.
This all can lead to what type of team character you have. If you give in to the boosters, star players, your rep may come as someone that will cheat to win. Of course if you don’t and still win, you’ll be reward with something else. It helps define who you are and what you can become as a coach.
As far as play-by-play of the games, this is where the developers can have some fun. Have yourself two guys who always seem to fight to call the action and put in some fake ads they must mention and you could have just a fun commentary. It needs to sound like just two locals, not professional though or it doesn't work. They should step on what the other one is saying at times like they color guy kind of thinks he should be doing the play-by-play. It could be a fun part of the game that makes the gamer laugh.
The action on the field should feature smaller playbooks than in most football games. And it should be allow you to make plays and practice them too. Also I'd like to see trick plays and gimmick formations as well.
The key to a game like this is to keep the realism and not try and make it an arcade type title like Blitz if you want it to sell. The game on the field needs to be real football. If it isn't those crazed high school fans won't be back for the next edition we are in an age of real football sims. Just look at Madden and NCAA each year. If they feel more like an arcade game, the public revolts. That is why this needs to be a true sim title.
HOW TO MAKE THIS TITLE WORK
One of the one many things you hear people say is, "it wouldn't sell." Well, it most likely would if they did things right on the first try. Being a first year title, it would need to get a lot of things right straight out of the gate.
First off there are two ways to go about it. One would be the more unrealistic regional release. That one wouldn't work, cause while I'm sure those in Texas would line up for it, other states aren't as crazed about High School football. Plus, you’d have to have a large team to go out and research every state, every high school, so it wouldn’t work. So that option I would call extremely unlikely.
But the one that would work would be the edit feature. Sure not everyone would want to take the time to edit every team, but several will. We’ve already seen this with EA’s Teambuilder. It has changed the game and has given me hope this type of game could actually be made.
We have also seen the very deep custom feature on Backbreaker. This could work method could work in the high school title, but only if we had an EA Locker or 2k Share to let other gamers who don’t want to create their state’s schools, find them. Without it, this game wouldn’t have the same appeal so a share feature is a must.
First off, if EA were to do this, they've got a deal with the NCAA, so make sure you're OKed to use all NCAA logos in the game. Why? Cause a lot of high schools use college logos. Make sure they are there. If not EA, make sure whoever it is tries to get several of these logos. I could save us some upload times. Also, make sure we can change existing NCAA logo colors.
We'd also need to be able to choose what state we're going to use. Since high school football is all about that state, make it so. Also, stadium sounds will be a must so we can find the right fight songs, but have some generic and famous college ones already in there.
Also, we'd need to make sure we're able to edit everything from the name of the school on the front of the jersey, to nothing but numbers or a just a school logo on the shoulder.
Next, we must be allowed to edit everything from player's names to ratings. It should feel like our game. We create everything from uniforms, stadiums, to players. Let this be our game. Also allow us to create up to six different classes if we want.
Stadiumbuilder could make a debut with a title like this. Stadiumbuilder could be a web app like Teambuilder. Of course the biggest difference is you’re building stadiums. This would give them away to give us the deepest stadium builder we’ve ever seen and not loading down the disk with stadium building stuff. Also, it would give us the best chance at getting our stadiums close. I would love to see this for the NCAA series anyway. I’m sure at some point I’ll post a blog explaining more on this for a later date.
I do like the idea too of having an all USA top 100 too and maybe adding a fictional USA tournament. This would be just something to bring in a few more of the casual gamers. I would make it an optional part of dynasty mode, but you can only get in by winning your state championship and must be invited. Not a feature I'd really want, but could bring in casual gamers.
For High School Football USA to work, you'd need a top developer. 2k needs something to revive their football hopes and with EA having a stranglehold on the NFL and NCAA, this could be the gimmick that gets them back in the game.
Of course, I'd want Midway and the blitz engine as far away from this game as possible. This game wouldn't need to feel like a gimmicky game since it would be mainly geared to true football fans. So I say no to Midway. Sorry, Blitz fan, but High School Football Blitz edition isn't what I want or what most are looking for.
EA of course could keep its football dominance and make this title as well. If they did, like I said earlier, make sure you get those NCAA logos in the game, but there are more important issues. If EA makes this game, allow us to import our players into the NCAA game. That way our high school legends can be recruited along side those other states. Might help sell to the game to those hardcore football fans that must have NCAA if they are to own Madden for draft classes.
Also, the dynasty mode would have to bring something new to the table. That's why I like the idea of the focus on the head coach. As I said before, let us choose how the fan base is in our town.
I just feel the focus on being a high school coach and facing off a local media that loves you one week and thinks you're the dumbest person in the world the next week would bring a challenge. Also, we'd need to be forced to make touch decisions like if we should bench our star player due to trouble off the field and face the wrath of boosters or play him anyway and face loosing control of his team.
And the last thing this game would need to work is a great marketing push. It couldn't just be a game that they put in articles and only talk about in magazines. It can’t just show up in stores and expect to sell. It would need to be on TV spots. Learn from the mistakes of MVP NCAA Baseball and make sure everyone knows it is out there. That could help make this game work.
MVP NCAA Baseball could have been a hit, but they treated it like fringe title and because of that it sold like one. High School Football USA would need to avoid this trap. Treating a sports game like a fringe title ensures it will fail.
Even if we only got it made one year, I'd be happy. I really believe in this idea. Just wish someone would grab that ball and run with it. Or go deep, whichever football metaphor you want to add.
If they could put this in a high school football game I think a lot of us would flock to buy it. I'm not a huge fan of high school football, but I know I'd give this game a try if it was out there.
So to the EAs, 2ks and anyone else who might be listening, here's you another football answer. I just hope someone is listening and maybe we'll see a real High School Football USA.
# 17
doovid184 @ Oct 13
I bought ncaa just so i could try the teambuilder feature. I would defidently spend 60 bucks om a high school football game and i would create all the teams in my towns conference.
# 18
thescoop @ Oct 14
First off, CHILD, I'm no kid. I'd put money on it I'm older than you, Clutch, but that is besides the point. I find it funny that you attack me for call you out and saying I can't take criticism, but you keep doing it over and over again. You don't like the idea, move on. I can take criticism fine, but you made your point and yet you keep coming back and hating. Move on.
Second, I said they'd have random teams for LAZY people. I didn't say lazy people like you. If you took it that way, then that's your problem.
Also, you went to the insult card which tells me all I need to know about you. I said you were a ***** because you were hating. You didn't just make your point, you kept coming back. You're still coming back, maybe even trolling at this point.
I know when I don't like an idea I might say something about not liking it and move on. So respond if you must, I'm moving on because I've said my piece to you now and your weak lame insults aren't really worth my time. Most people like the idea. You don't. Fine.
In closing, don't go away mad. Just go away.
Second, I said they'd have random teams for LAZY people. I didn't say lazy people like you. If you took it that way, then that's your problem.
Also, you went to the insult card which tells me all I need to know about you. I said you were a ***** because you were hating. You didn't just make your point, you kept coming back. You're still coming back, maybe even trolling at this point.
I know when I don't like an idea I might say something about not liking it and move on. So respond if you must, I'm moving on because I've said my piece to you now and your weak lame insults aren't really worth my time. Most people like the idea. You don't. Fine.
In closing, don't go away mad. Just go away.
# 19
thescoop @ Oct 14
I don't know why it censored the word, h-a-t-e-r then. But I felt I need to point out I did NOT call you a dirty word then.
# 20
PootyPoo22 @ Oct 14
I think to make this really fun, EA would have to pick it up. I would be amazing to have an effect on the Recruiting Board in NCAA Football by seeing your high school players up there in the ESPN Top 150. I would buy all three and probably lose my job and get fat playing these games so much.
# 21
EyeAmBaldman @ Oct 15
I love the idea, and to truly catch the essence of NCAA and Madden, you have to be able to import high schoolers into the NCAA game. I've long thought this. I do agree that the scope of your idea is HUGE and perhaps too huge. I live in Illinois, where HS football is not nearly as well thought of as HS basketball. However, deep customization is one of the things I liked about Backbreaker.
I agree with scaled down playbooks. Here in southern Illinois, it's run-first, pass when you have to. Of course, the athletes aren't as prevalent here in Illinois like they are in TX, FL and CA. This could all be taken into account when creating teams for your state (love that idea!). I do think there'd have to be a cap on how many teams you could customize...geez, that could get out of hand. I'm a freak when it comes to having everything as it should be and I'd be the guy trying to get HUNDREDS of HS football teams exactly perfect. !!!!
I'd probably just focus on the a specific class in a specific state. My hometown team is 2A, so I'd focus on that. And to narrow it even further, I'd likely focus on the conference my hometown team is in. Of course there are some conferences that don't even have football, and I of course would love to create those!
I'd like to think a game like this would happen, I just don't know if a dev would see like we see it. They're going to be looking at it from a financial point-of-view, and we're looking at it like the be-all-end-all of football games. Love the ideas though.
I agree with scaled down playbooks. Here in southern Illinois, it's run-first, pass when you have to. Of course, the athletes aren't as prevalent here in Illinois like they are in TX, FL and CA. This could all be taken into account when creating teams for your state (love that idea!). I do think there'd have to be a cap on how many teams you could customize...geez, that could get out of hand. I'm a freak when it comes to having everything as it should be and I'd be the guy trying to get HUNDREDS of HS football teams exactly perfect. !!!!
I'd probably just focus on the a specific class in a specific state. My hometown team is 2A, so I'd focus on that. And to narrow it even further, I'd likely focus on the conference my hometown team is in. Of course there are some conferences that don't even have football, and I of course would love to create those!
I'd like to think a game like this would happen, I just don't know if a dev would see like we see it. They're going to be looking at it from a financial point-of-view, and we're looking at it like the be-all-end-all of football games. Love the ideas though.
# 22
thescoop @ Oct 16
Eye, I love your ideas and agree with you on a lot of what you said. This idea is too huge for them to take on by themselves. The caps, under my idea would be by state. If you chose Illinois then that's the only state you can custom in the game. Also, I'd like for the high school online teambuilder to have the ability to create not just a single team, but state. (that too maybe a bit of a pipe dream.)
Maybe we'd only get to do a single class in a state, but in a dream world, we'd get the whole state and each class. I'm sure we'd be accepting of at least two classes or even a single class we can edit and play with in dynasty mode.
I agree devs aren't going to look at this and see dollar signs. This idea is a pipe dream, but if they did it and did it right it would make huge profits.
First off, because of the customization of this game, this game wouldn't have to become a yearly release. They could have a longer cycle to make the game. That would help this series to be better than most football games. Plus, because they aren't spending time researching actual players, they be able to focus more on the gameplay and dynasty mode ideas.
While we most likely will never see High School Football, USA, I'll always keep coming up with and sharing ideas how to make this game happen.
Maybe we'd only get to do a single class in a state, but in a dream world, we'd get the whole state and each class. I'm sure we'd be accepting of at least two classes or even a single class we can edit and play with in dynasty mode.
I agree devs aren't going to look at this and see dollar signs. This idea is a pipe dream, but if they did it and did it right it would make huge profits.
First off, because of the customization of this game, this game wouldn't have to become a yearly release. They could have a longer cycle to make the game. That would help this series to be better than most football games. Plus, because they aren't spending time researching actual players, they be able to focus more on the gameplay and dynasty mode ideas.
While we most likely will never see High School Football, USA, I'll always keep coming up with and sharing ideas how to make this game happen.
# 24
thescoop @ Oct 16
Eski, you aren't expected to custom everything. If you don't mind using fictional high school teams, you won't have to custom anything. Or, if they follow my model, you'd be able to download teams from those who are willing to create for you.
So the game itself would still work without you ever creating a thing. The customization is for those of us who want the actual teams. If you're still not into that then fine too. Just saying the only reason you'd create is to have real teams. A lot of people will be fine with just generic high school teams in their state or what not. I'm just saying to create a high school football game, you MUST give us a huge amount of custom options.
So the game itself would still work without you ever creating a thing. The customization is for those of us who want the actual teams. If you're still not into that then fine too. Just saying the only reason you'd create is to have real teams. A lot of people will be fine with just generic high school teams in their state or what not. I'm just saying to create a high school football game, you MUST give us a huge amount of custom options.
# 25
ebemiss @ Feb 27
I've created a simple computer sim without graphics that i'm sure that I could take all that data and create each team's individual ratings.
I have different templates set up for teams, because there is no possible way to track down all that information on the HS level. However I can still tweak them to make a team more realstic. The sim is here. pick your state, year and teams and you'll get a box score and player stats.
http://nationalsportsrankings.com/jo...none&Itemid=56
Like I said, I can create the nuts and bolts of the game from a numbers/ratings/player ratings stand point. I just have no graphic or gaming design experience.
If someone can make it come to life, I can help with the back end. let me know
I have different templates set up for teams, because there is no possible way to track down all that information on the HS level. However I can still tweak them to make a team more realstic. The sim is here. pick your state, year and teams and you'll get a box score and player stats.
http://nationalsportsrankings.com/jo...none&Itemid=56
Like I said, I can create the nuts and bolts of the game from a numbers/ratings/player ratings stand point. I just have no graphic or gaming design experience.
If someone can make it come to life, I can help with the back end. let me know
# 26
darkgreen1 @ Sep 23
I like your idea...I myself am working on a high school football video game with NCAA.On this game..I have 99 rated players 5 stars to 95 rated players as a 1 star seniors. No recruiting..i skip that part. The top teams are B+, I use California Bearcats as De La Salle in the PAC(Poll state Championship)and Ole Miss as South Panola,Mississippi(they are a B-) in the SEC as a State Championship game state. I also use Notre Dame as Don Bosco prep to freelance. I made the ACC a city championship conference in Miami. At the beginning of the season, I change some of the schedules so they can become undefeated at the end of the season and I put some of the top teams in the Herbstreit classic against Ohio best(MAC). I got my team ratings (60=B+ 57=B 54=b-....39=D and so forth) from cal preps. I also labeled the top players in the preseason with like 99's and 98's are top 50 (not to many) cap SO-first name,low 97's(altering the rating you can make him a couple points from a 98) top 250 as cap ZSO-first name,96's as top 500 and 95's as top 5000. I also adjusted the playbooks to 80% run and maybe 2 teams to 80% pass so a QB can put up Maty Mauk numbers. I made some conferences bad so the top team can finish undefeated with an decent rank(Hawaii and Mississippi no offense), and other conferences difficult so if they lose 1 they can still finish high(California and Ohio). Im thinking about an Elite 11 label on the QB's. Im trying to figure out a formula for the next season because the recruiting boosts up the D- teams.
# 27
penguinsniper811 @ Jul 15
Sick Idea, and I like how you said you have "only" been thinking about it for a few years, like that's a short amount of time for an idea...
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As long as game play is solid, then the custom stuff will take care of itself. But hey, you go right on hating because you don't like the idea. Just say "I don't like the idea" next time.
nflnutt, pm me and I'd love to get involved and maybe see some of the ideas you guys came up with. Maybe if put our visions together we can get the ball rolling. I'm just typing a pipe dream right now, but if you've got ways in, then I'd love to be a part of it.