schnaidt1's Blog
I dont think anyone would question the fact that NCAA 11 was a better game than Madden 11 last year. NCAA had waaay better graphics, the locomotion system was alot more noticeable than in madden, the commentary altho old was alot better than madden 11. dynasty yes had its issues just like the franchise mode in madden but was way deeper. in ncaa we had full replays when we scored, they werent cut off at 40 yards. the ncaa team took the time to patch in dirty uni's, something the madden dev team didnt bother doing. ncaa had tuning packs. oh and how bout the fact the madden team didnt care enough to patch the God aweful same intro between the two quarterbacks every freaking game you play! gameflow was a great idea...but was broken. the overall gameplay and everything else was better than madden 11.
now a year later. what does madden 12 bring to the table? well...alot. there have been alot of improvements made to various aspects of the game. they added some old features to franchise mode, and some new tht will make that fresh no matter how many years deep you get. they added the 32 team custom intros. tons of diff camera angles. but after that...nothing else is diff than the improvements to ncaa 12. not to mention that instead of fixing gameflow, they just add the option to choose pass or run from ur gameflow. well sh**, i misewell just pick the play from the play book. that kind of defeats the purpose of what gameflow is supposed to do!!
This year they both add 3d grass. madden says they have a better presentation package. but other than angles i havent seen it. ncaa still has better presentation. they both removed suction, both added the new collision system and zone defense being beefed up.
but then u look at what madden 12 is adding that ncaa 11 had.
progressive lighting, full instant replays, dirty uni's, and linear lighting.
then you look at what ncaa 12 has that madden 12 does not.
hdr lighting, espn packages along with gametrack and quarter break highlights, custom formations, teambuiler, ERIN ANDREWS...a sideline reporter is a huge plus for a football game. oh and another year with the 3/4 arm sleeves that madden just felt like didnt need to be in the game for a 2nd year in a row. even tho nfl players wear them!
i really feel like madden 12 is just ncaa 11 with a few tweaks. they didnt improve gameplay any different than ncaa which was already better.
and then the commentary. yes ncaa commentary is old. but its on point. and fits. i hear cris collinsworth say the same thing every game about everything. and gus johnson. who yes is tight. has been implemented the wrong way. he is excited over a 2 yard gain. watching gameplay videos. the qb hands off the running back then gets tackled. at which then gus says , and he hands off to the back and he is brought down that the 44 yard line.
maddens commentary is behind. there is over excitement on everything. there are deadspots. and its very repetative.
wouldnt you be disgusted if all that was being added were features from something your younger brother had last year, and still didnt even add them all! isnt it suppose to be the other way around. NCAA 12 is going to be better than madden 12 because altho they added some cool things to spice up the game ( camera angles and franchise mode additions) it just isnt enough to compete with ncaa 12.
ncaa 12 looks gorgeous. and going from that to madden 12 will be a let down in the visuals. and gameplay department. and even with all the things added to madden to try and take peoples focus away from the fact they are now behind the ncaa team. i still believe the true football fans out there will notice and end up being let down, just like every year.
and that is why they left. they werent happy getting shown up every year.
i will still be buying madden 12 because of franchise mode improvements and that is where i spend 95% of my time. but i know after 3 games i will be frustrated at the trade logic, the graphics, the commentary, and the gameplay that is behind ncaa 12.
your thoughts??
# 2
patmaster7891 @ Jul 4
i didnt buy madden but i got ncaa and because there commentary got old quick i just played music while playing the game.
# 3
edaddy @ Jul 4
Good post but what about Madden 10 which was thoroughly a better game than NCAA 10?...Doesnt that in essence put a crimp in your theory?...While I believe that Ian and company left due to some reason other than they mentioned I am not inclined to think it was because of NCAA being a better game last year...I believe to an extent they were frustrated by the suits that hampered there creativity....
# 4
mirrored32 @ Jul 5
"and that is why they left. they werent happy getting shown up every year."
i dont' think that is the whole story. I think it was more of a personal decision. Some of it I know for Ian was he was tired of the 'hate' that Madden got. He mentioned it in a few posts here in OS. I think more constructive critisim was needed though the years but 'hate' is what he got mostly. There was a lot of hate, and probably prompted by the 'major' features that needed fixing and the community felt was not being taken care of "franchise mode". frustration i think by the community. I think Madden 12 is fixing that and recognizing FRANCHISE MODE is why we buy the game.
We can't truly be sure all or any of the reasons why Ian and others left or even if they 'left'. NDA's are nasty little things in the gaming industry and can leave an employee without any right to say why they did anything they did.
All in all, what we do know. . .
Madden 12 started with a 'letter to the fans'. basically in a nutshell, 'we hear you'. So I think they are righting the ship, they knew needed righting.
NCAA 12 has had it going on for a while now. I feel they have been more consistent in quality upgrades to the game.
i dont' think that is the whole story. I think it was more of a personal decision. Some of it I know for Ian was he was tired of the 'hate' that Madden got. He mentioned it in a few posts here in OS. I think more constructive critisim was needed though the years but 'hate' is what he got mostly. There was a lot of hate, and probably prompted by the 'major' features that needed fixing and the community felt was not being taken care of "franchise mode". frustration i think by the community. I think Madden 12 is fixing that and recognizing FRANCHISE MODE is why we buy the game.
We can't truly be sure all or any of the reasons why Ian and others left or even if they 'left'. NDA's are nasty little things in the gaming industry and can leave an employee without any right to say why they did anything they did.
All in all, what we do know. . .
Madden 12 started with a 'letter to the fans'. basically in a nutshell, 'we hear you'. So I think they are righting the ship, they knew needed righting.
NCAA 12 has had it going on for a while now. I feel they have been more consistent in quality upgrades to the game.
# 5
RUFFNREADY @ Jul 5
The botton line is: The SUITS. They make the end call; because it is a business first and foremost. Money speaks louder than community want(s) and wishlists. EASports got out of control, when they decided to make and cater games to the "Casual player / NOOB". They were looking for a bigger $$Money$$ pool to tap into; then they got way too greedy like any other growing company would do. So they shifted away from the hardcore followers, and started producing CRAP on the next gen consoles; and that is why i am typing this today. Greed and money isnt everything to the everyday person; only to the rich and powerful = EASports. You guys can Rant all you want, and it isnt going to change one thing. A couple things that the rich and Powerful believe in: $$$$ the mighty dollar and If you dont like it, somebody else will buy it! and if you dont like working here, LEAVE; we'll get somebody else to do your job.
Nuff said. So, SCHNAIDT1, i believe your probably correct in what your saying about the product they were producing; but you cannot forget what runs a company and business $money$, and that is what everybody answers to.
cheers.
btw, good insight, and great post.
Nuff said. So, SCHNAIDT1, i believe your probably correct in what your saying about the product they were producing; but you cannot forget what runs a company and business $money$, and that is what everybody answers to.
cheers.
btw, good insight, and great post.
# 6
kingsofthevalley @ Jul 5
Why would they leave after bringing back all of the gravy thats been missing for the past couple of years? I've erased Madden/NCAA 06-09 from my memory. I'm equating the 2010 versions with with the very start of this generation. 2010 versions are what 2006 versions should've been ya know?
Point being, we're damn near where we should be now. All I'm waiting for is the sprint/momentum to return (I think will be fixed for 2013) and I'm good. Again, why would they leave right when everything is back on track?
Point being, we're damn near where we should be now. All I'm waiting for is the sprint/momentum to return (I think will be fixed for 2013) and I'm good. Again, why would they leave right when everything is back on track?
# 7
schnaidt1 @ Jul 5
the dude who said madden 10 was better than ncaa 10, u were right. i should have rephrased every year since it was just last year an this year. an i believe they were getting shown up these past 2 years because they were not really allowed to do all the things the want in a game. its all been gimmicks really. if u are trying to make the best football game possible but have ur hands tied so ea can make more money, thus resulting in hate from the community, well of course id wanna leave, that wouldnt be what i signed up for.
im really, think bout the new features added to madden 09, 10 and 11 that are gone in 12.
back track, which was crazy talked about.
pro tack, is essentially gone with the new collision system
remember how much the talked bout qb specific intro's last year? well that was broken, never fixed, and now gone.
how bout how much they pumped gus last year? the lines he has and how he says is aweful, an cris says same stuff since 09!
then there is locomotion, which worked. but didnt feel half as good as ncaa 11 last year.
gameflow= broken, an didnt fix this year just tried covering it up
remember madden 10. pumped the slowing down of players. well this year things are clearly sped back up
the only thing that has really stayed is auto sprint
so yea. if u combine all that, yes, they get showed up last year an this year and they sick of it and left. my personal opinion of course
im really, think bout the new features added to madden 09, 10 and 11 that are gone in 12.
back track, which was crazy talked about.
pro tack, is essentially gone with the new collision system
remember how much the talked bout qb specific intro's last year? well that was broken, never fixed, and now gone.
how bout how much they pumped gus last year? the lines he has and how he says is aweful, an cris says same stuff since 09!
then there is locomotion, which worked. but didnt feel half as good as ncaa 11 last year.
gameflow= broken, an didnt fix this year just tried covering it up
remember madden 10. pumped the slowing down of players. well this year things are clearly sped back up
the only thing that has really stayed is auto sprint
so yea. if u combine all that, yes, they get showed up last year an this year and they sick of it and left. my personal opinion of course
# 8
schnaidt1 @ Jul 5
and also @kingsofthevalley, they didnt bring back all the gravy that was missing. they added some cool features to franchise mode yes, but it still is nothing compared to that of 05! no owner mode, no radio show, no create a play, no mini camps.
they were starting to do some good things this year, but they let themselves get behind ncaa 11, that has to be considered unthinkable if u work on madden.
I remember Ian blogging bout how he studied the hell out of nfl 2k5 as so they could make madden so that it could never be compared to it again. well...3 years later. they have no espn broadcast integration tht 2k5 had, no great, absolutely great commentary. no sideline reporter, no halftime show with chris berman, no sports center with chris, trey and mel. yes they tried the extra point, but how aweful was that?? the reason they removed the halftime show from last years game and the complete exra point from this years game.
Everything from a presentational standpoint is still being saught after in madden to catch up to 2k5.
i also remember Ian blogging about how he wanted to create a pass blocking pocket that of which u see in all pro football 2k8. well pass blocking was broken last year so clearly they werent really able to work on that.
Ian also blogged how he wanted to throw to receivers and have them catch in stride on deep balls and not stop or slow down as he saw in all pro 2k8 that doesnt happen at all in madden so they werent able to do that also.
I cant say what phil or jeremey thought, but its clear from Ians bogs he was a visionary and wanted to put all the things people loved from 2k5 and 2k8 into madden not just to gain a bigger fan base, but because they were great features, PERIOD. and i think he left because he wasnt being able to do all that he wanted. and some things that were addded...were and still are broken. Idk why phil left, maybe he got sick of pumping 1 or 2 new features every year that he knew were gonna be gone next year or the year after and fans were getting sick of it. idk. i am just saying. they did not add all the gravy to madden this year. there is still alot...and i mean alot missing. and its not the devs fault.
the community bashes the devs on this. u dont thikn they want to create the ultimate football game with everything we want? its the stupid money hungry ea head haunchos that will not allow it. so rather than suffocating. they left.
they were starting to do some good things this year, but they let themselves get behind ncaa 11, that has to be considered unthinkable if u work on madden.
I remember Ian blogging bout how he studied the hell out of nfl 2k5 as so they could make madden so that it could never be compared to it again. well...3 years later. they have no espn broadcast integration tht 2k5 had, no great, absolutely great commentary. no sideline reporter, no halftime show with chris berman, no sports center with chris, trey and mel. yes they tried the extra point, but how aweful was that?? the reason they removed the halftime show from last years game and the complete exra point from this years game.
Everything from a presentational standpoint is still being saught after in madden to catch up to 2k5.
i also remember Ian blogging about how he wanted to create a pass blocking pocket that of which u see in all pro football 2k8. well pass blocking was broken last year so clearly they werent really able to work on that.
Ian also blogged how he wanted to throw to receivers and have them catch in stride on deep balls and not stop or slow down as he saw in all pro 2k8 that doesnt happen at all in madden so they werent able to do that also.
I cant say what phil or jeremey thought, but its clear from Ians bogs he was a visionary and wanted to put all the things people loved from 2k5 and 2k8 into madden not just to gain a bigger fan base, but because they were great features, PERIOD. and i think he left because he wasnt being able to do all that he wanted. and some things that were addded...were and still are broken. Idk why phil left, maybe he got sick of pumping 1 or 2 new features every year that he knew were gonna be gone next year or the year after and fans were getting sick of it. idk. i am just saying. they did not add all the gravy to madden this year. there is still alot...and i mean alot missing. and its not the devs fault.
the community bashes the devs on this. u dont thikn they want to create the ultimate football game with everything we want? its the stupid money hungry ea head haunchos that will not allow it. so rather than suffocating. they left.
# 9
TheSportzGuru @ Jul 5
Ian and Phil were good guys; I agree with what you said up there dude, the haters pushed 'em to the limit
# 10
RUFFNREADY @ Jul 6
EASport isnt as nice of a place to work as few have come and gone and taken their talents with them. Not to go off topic or anything; but can anybody remember Mike Wang formerly from 2k; formerly from EASports, now back with 2K. This guy was a NBA basketball design god; and was highly recruited from 2k to come and work on NBA LIVE 10 for EASports. His creativity and design brought a respectable game back to EA for once in the(b-ball) genre. Then look at what happened oonly after one year; he had to leave because he didn't like where the NBA LIVE team was headed, and his creative mind locked up in some jar and put on the shelf for "whenever". So then he jumps ship and heads back to 2k, where they/he designed and created one of the best b-ball sim games to date; in one year!
If you havent read the Mike wang story, please do; for it will shed more light on possibilities of why Ian and Phil left.
It sounds like if you have a creative mind, EASports is not a place to go to blossom; you'll just get locked away like cinderella waiting for a clock to strike 12; and that will never happen.
Ask yourself this question: Can you really put everything you want and like into a video game in one years version?; So then what happens next year?
cheers
If you havent read the Mike wang story, please do; for it will shed more light on possibilities of why Ian and Phil left.
It sounds like if you have a creative mind, EASports is not a place to go to blossom; you'll just get locked away like cinderella waiting for a clock to strike 12; and that will never happen.
Ask yourself this question: Can you really put everything you want and like into a video game in one years version?; So then what happens next year?
cheers
# 11
tb24ster @ Jul 6
Did you find out the game that was played on E3 was that demo camera view playable in madden 12 ? that view was awsome please dont tell me that all we are going to get is the same old 4 camera views to play on. can anyone find out is the demo view playable!!!! that would be grerat!
# 12
schnaidt1 @ Jul 6
ruffnready, i remember exactly what u are talking about, people were worried that nba 2k10 was going to take a huge hit losing him! but they stuck to their guns and he came back and they made the greatest basketball game to date last year in 2k11.
what sucks is, i get why they are like that about their football games. they have no competition. they dont need to put forth the extra effort or creativity. i dont agree with it. but it at least has some basis. the nba team however gets stomped by 2k every year. you would think they would be as creative as possible lol.
idk. there are so many lil things i would love to see in madden to make the game feel so much better. and having a cbs, fox, or espn broadcast integration with announcers would help a ton. i dont think we will ever see the presentation elements from 2k5 matched in any ea football game. also if they add some small things like being able to set ur snap count, or go on a silent count in loud stadiums. fixing penalties, catching animations and cpu play calling. add more player tendencies, more attributes to certain position and make them apply to just taht position. i dont need to see a qbs catch rating. do that and i am happy with the game. simple stuff. sure the game play and engine are broke, but ea is unwilling to fix it so those cover ups would delight me!
what sucks is, i get why they are like that about their football games. they have no competition. they dont need to put forth the extra effort or creativity. i dont agree with it. but it at least has some basis. the nba team however gets stomped by 2k every year. you would think they would be as creative as possible lol.
idk. there are so many lil things i would love to see in madden to make the game feel so much better. and having a cbs, fox, or espn broadcast integration with announcers would help a ton. i dont think we will ever see the presentation elements from 2k5 matched in any ea football game. also if they add some small things like being able to set ur snap count, or go on a silent count in loud stadiums. fixing penalties, catching animations and cpu play calling. add more player tendencies, more attributes to certain position and make them apply to just taht position. i dont need to see a qbs catch rating. do that and i am happy with the game. simple stuff. sure the game play and engine are broke, but ea is unwilling to fix it so those cover ups would delight me!
# 13
Computalover @ Jul 6
let us not forget Ian had to live thru the "Casual Gamer" phase of the gaming era.. meaning the focus of the entire gaming industry moved from their bread and butter hardcore gaming fans, to the casual gaming community. it was purely to enhance revenue, and not about innovation and creativity, which would indeed increase revenue. look at madden on "next" gen consoles became more about ease of play and mini-games.. WTF?!?? but just like casual gamers, they are fickle.. and they dropped madden like a bad habit because of the wii and XBLA.. etc. now they are trying to recover their oft spurned hardcore community, but its gonna take a while, and a lot.. to win most of us back
# 15
RUFFNREADY @ Jul 6
It would seem tobe that way (from recent video clips); but i wont be able to give you more of a definitive answer until i play the demo or full version of Madden12.
cheers
cheers
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