rudyjuly2's Blog
Visuals
There is no question the Show is the better looking game. I think 2K looks pretty decent but the Show is better. The player models in the Show are better although I do think they are a little too muscle bound (legs mainly) while the slouching shoulders of 2K aren’t right. The biggest differences between the two games are the player faces, animations and frame rate. The Show does an excellent job with the player faces and not just the marquee guys either. The player faces for average or marginal players in 2K are just plain scary and resemble zombies out of a low budget movie. There is no detail and they look bad. Some players like Rick Porcello of the Tigers have a shirt that has massive jaggies around his neck as though he were Jethro.
The animations are just better and more varied in the Show. 2K still has horrible animations for rounding the bases. The Show also has a lot of nice baseball touches like throwing the ball around the horn after an out rather than just back to the pitcher. Lastly the frame rate in the Show is silky smooth. I’m going to guess it runs at a full 60 fps while 2K11 might be at 30 fps and is definitely choppy here and there. There is a clear difference.
The Show needs to get rid of the foul ball camera angle though and the animation where a batter drops to a knee. It’s an old and tired look. I thought day games were too bright on the Show and playing from the high camera angle on defence made it hard to pick up the ball on the infield and warning track. I actually gave up an inside the park home run because I couldn’t find the ball with my CF.
Audio
After not playing since the Show 09 I’m still hearing a lot of the same commentary two years later. “Get your hats out!” (on a three strikeout night), “One shortstop grounds out to the other”, etc. There is no commentary that actually makes me believe the three of these guys recorded anything together. It’s not bad but 2K11 is superior here from the voices of the guys to the all around commentary. 2K11 could do a better job of not using the signature commentary for each player every game though. It gets old while playing a franchise with the same team.
Batting
I think 2K11 really improved a lot in this category. I see a great deal of hit variety and the game does a really nice job of letting the contact hitter shine. The light hitting, no power hitter is represented well and it’s something the Show struggled with in the past (I can’t say how it is in Show 11). I do have an issue with how big the gap is between contact and power swings but my biggest beef is the lack of ground outs. Slider tweaking can’t help. You either end up with too many hits or too many strike outs. We simply need more grounders in the infield.
A smaller beef is how rigid the hitting system has become this year in 2K11. Outside pitches require you to go the opposite way all the time while in real life you can still pull a lot of those pitches with power. The system does work although you will still see too many opposite field home runs as a result. The ball does tend to float a little too much off the bat and I think hard hits should travel a bit faster. Cpu batters never bunt for base hits in 2K11 this year (hopefully the patch will fix) so this is a negative as well.
In the Show, hard hits scream off the bat at 200 mph. It seems a bit too fast but I would choose this over the overly slow line drives in 2K11. I like the overall hitting model a bit better in some ways. You can still pull outside pitches with power and it’s not as rigid. Pulling a home run over the fence just feels good. I do think you can generate too much power to the opposite field on inside pitches. I find myself fighting off inside pitches and hitting deep foul balls the other way. The ball also seems to scoot pretty fast on the outfield grass. I think it could use a little more friction.
But there are two big advantages for 2K’s hitting. One is pitch speed. The default pitch speed in 2K11 is slower than any pitch speed setting you can create in the Show 11. If you like the Show’s pitch speed you won’t have a problem here. If you don’t you are screwed. You will find yourself chasing bad pitches out of the zone, never walking and striking out too much. It can be very frustrating.
The other advantage for 2K is the hitter’s eye. A batter with a good eye will occasionally flash you the type of pitch and location allowing you to be more selective. A batter without a good eye won’t see these prompts come up very often and it makes it harder to hit and be selective. You also have a slider to adjust how frequently you want this to work. This truly rewards players with better plate discipline and you can feel the difference. Even though you may have the same hacking approach at the plate with each batter, this allows batters to feel different and let you work the pitcher more. It also helps out the pure contact hitter. It is a very nice system.
The Show uses a very arcade like guess pitch system that works exactly the same for any batter vs. any pitcher. No ratings are taken into account and if you guess the correct pitch it works 100% of the time which is never the case in reality. You don’t have to use it but due to the fast pitch speed of the game you may be forced to use the tired, arcade like system of guessing fastball every time and sitting on off speed stuff. They really need to implement something better. Adopt the 2K system or the old MVP system of flashing the type of pitch occasionally.
Pitching
The Show has three different systems. Classic, which is great at producing sim results but requires no stick skills for the user, the meter system or the new analog system. I grew tired of Classic pitching after a few years and the analog system is fun. The controls are trickier to master than 2K’s gesture pitching although I wish there was more randomness in the misses rather than being completely tied to the sticks. Having to control the precise angle when trying to pitch to the corners, especially with sliders, was particularly hard for me. I’m not sure how rating driven this is as I didn’t play it enough. But it is enjoyable.
I make no apologies for saying I love the gesture pitching in 2K11. I think it’s great. The varied controls by pitch type provide the necessary stick skills to keep the user interested and the randomness of the misses based both on your stick skills and player ratings is really good. This is definitely my system of choice. I think my biggest beef with this area is the crazy movement on cutters and two seam fastballs. It’s just too much and needs to be toned down.
In both games cpu hitters will take pitches in the zone, swing at stuff outside the zone (particularly when behind in the count) and take advantage of mistakes. I think this is done well. But both games need to provide a slider to let me adjust how aggressive cpu hitters are and how much they should chase balls out of the zone. The default settings are good so it’s not a big issue.
Fielding
Quite honestly both games need work in this area. I like how 2K implemented the outfield fly ball system to try and capture defensive ratings from outfielders. It can be frustrating on routine fly balls with some poor outfielders but at least it creates a reason for defensive subs in the game. I’ve yet to see a cpu outfielder misjudge a ball though so it’s not exactly equitable. There aren’t enough booted balls in the game by infielders and throwing errors for the user are non-existent if you stay in the green zone which is very easy to do. They need more ratings involved here and a patch to fix this. The anticipation ratings between good and bad defensive third basemen really show through nicely even if the user doesn’t have complete control. 2K does a pretty decent job of showcasing the different defensive abilities of players.
The Show needs more work here as well. Catching a fly ball with an outfielder is no different from one player to the next. The same mechanic is used and is routine at all times imo. The cpu outfield also cheats a bit. I hit a screaming line drive over the head of Delmon Young in left field. I wasn’t sure if he was going to catch it or not but he immediately knew he wasn’t going to make the catch (on what should have been a very close play) and adjusted his angle to play the ball carom off the wall rather than try to catch the ball. Most outfielders would have tried to make the catch and after just missing it then chased down the ball off the wall. He knew far too early he couldn’t make the catch and cheated to take a good angle to the ball.
The Show still suffers from a lack of correct error scoring as my video showed a 3B just kick the ball. No animation to bend over and make the play and no error. It just bounced off his foot, stayed five feet in front of him and Dave Campbell called it a hit. The other thing that stands out is how quick an infielder can field the ball, get the ball out of his glove and then throw to a base. It’s too fast. On a hard shot to 3B your player can scoop and throw in less than a second and it looks odd throwing out a base runner that is barely halfway to first base. With only a few games in I didn’t have enough time to tell the difference between good and bad infielders so I don’t know if the game truly separates the players enough here.
The outfield arms on default are lolly pops in 2K while the Show outfielders are blessed with bazookas. The arc on the ball (or lack of it) is done better in the Show although I think both default settings are off and need adjusting with the sliders. I should note that 2K cpu outfielders hit the cut-off man too often. They need to be more aggressive in actually throwing to the base when a runner is attempting to move up or score. The Show does this well.
Manager AI
The Show kills 2K in this area. The cpu AI in 2K11 is bad. 2K11 made a lot of nice improvements over 2K10 but this area isn’t one of them. Starting pitchers get yanked too soon, the first reliever stays in the game too long, the use of subs is very questionable at times (I’ve seen Mariano Rivera subbed into right field as a defensive replacement and stay in the game to bat). Just from the history of the Show I know they do this stuff a lot better. The franchise bugs from injuries to fatigue to subs in 2K are just bad. 2K11 also lets you send veterans down to the minors as they don’t have player options like the Show has. About the only franchise option 2K has that the Show may not have is rehab assignments after long stints on the DL. The cpu base runners in 2K11 are also chicken when in scoring position and will only go home if grandma could make it. They need to be more aggressive when trying to score instead of just stopping at third base. I don’t think I’ve ever thrown out a cpu runner at home because of this and that simply removes an exciting part of baseball.
Little Things
2K has some nice things like automatically displaying the contact and power ratings of every batter when they come to the plate. A quick pause shows the line-up and you can see who is coming up next and whether they are left or right handed very quickly. The Show does a nice job of showing the speed of the base runners on base. I’d like to see 2K add that next year. I also like the fact you can select a reliever in the Show and have him set to enter the game at the start of the next inning. This makes warming up pitchers a breeze and makes the closer entry more realistic (you shouldn’t need to yank your pitcher on the mound when starting the 9th). I do like the base running controls of 2K better.
One thing the Show needs to adopt is auto loading sliders and rosters. I would get annoyed when I would fire up an exhibition game and then be stuck with the default rosters and have to change my sliders.
2K11 does have a great sports blog which allows you to quickly load box scores and track your player and team stats online along with the standings. It’s really nice although I’d like to see more pitcher stats and better formatting of the stats (decimal places are crazy for some things). Nothing was improved in this area from 2K10. They also have a new VIP system that tracks your tendencies (swings and misses, how often you throw strikes, spray charts). It’s great. I just wish you could load it online and share your stuff with others. The Show has a replay vault which is impressive and a great way to save replays after the fact. 2K11 shows highlights at the end of the game but you can’t save any. I also love the fact the Show lets you easily save screenshots and videos directly to a USB stick.
I should note that the Show developers are active on forums and interact with users as well as actually patch problems in the game. The 2K11 developers are completely silent on their game and keep their frustrated fan base in the dark. They spend all their money promoting pitching a perfect game (which did not boost sales at all last year and sales actually dropped) and an RV to drive across the country but they won’t spend the money and time to patch the game more often and interact with us. Annoying.
Sliders
I’d like both games to have a few more sliders but the Show is especially frustrating because the devs don’t really care about them and have only a 10 point system while every other sports game uses at least a 20 point scale. They still have many global sliders not split between the cpu and the user. I think the Show really needs a throw accuracy slider and that should be split between infield and outfield as well as user and cpu. Instead all you have is a global throwing error slider.
Overall
If you add up all the positives and negatives between the two games the Show would win. It’s more polished, has better visuals, no glaring problems and has much better patch support for the game. But each category carries a different weight. I prefer the pitching system of 2K11 and I also prefer the hitting system as well, largely because the pitch speed can be adjusted for my skills greatly reducing frustration. I think both games are good baseball games and I can see why many people love the Show like I once did. But for this year 2K11 will continue to be my baseball game of choice.
# 2
rudyjuly2 @ May 4
I just used timing for hitting. I was having a hard enough time handling the pitch speed at 0. Analog was just too hard for me.
2K just announced that the patch is done and it is almost done the QA testing. It should be submitted to Sony and MS by the end of the week so hopefully we'll have the patch in two weeks.
2K just announced that the patch is done and it is almost done the QA testing. It should be submitted to Sony and MS by the end of the week so hopefully we'll have the patch in two weeks.
# 3
ranger91 @ May 4
I don't see how people say 2k11 is better or even close to as good as the show. IMO the show is head and shoulders about 2k. I have played 2k and it is fun but just not the same as The Show
# 5
DJ @ May 5
I gave up on Analog after going back and forth for over a month. Looking forward to what the 2K patch consists of. I hope it addresses a lot of the key issues. I'd really like to get back to playing MLB Today games but have stopped playing the game b/c of the current issues.
# 6
mac8204 @ May 5
Thanks for the article. It's nice to see both of the games described by someone who does not have a clear favorite. Of course I disagree with a few things that you said, but that's expected. Overall I'm glad someone wrote an unbiased comparison of both games. Thanks!
# 9
rudyjuly2 @ May 5
Thanks guys. I forgot to mention the pitch confidence system. The Show does a really good job of incorporating overall confidence and individual pitch confidence so that each outing has a slightly different feeling. 2K's confidence is really black and white. Either your pitcher is calm or he is rattled and it's a lot harder to pitch accurately. A simply visit to the mound will calm your pitcher down 100% of the time. 2K should really copy the Show's method in this area.
# 10
tril @ May 6
Nice Write Up!
IMO, both games are solid.
2K does have the advantage in anlog controls, but thats to be expected cuase theyve had this a s a feature for 3 years now.
I play both games.
I use 2k for a franchise mode cause I personally beleive that The Shows franchise mode is too cumbersome.
I use 29 game season mode for The Show. I still get to call players up and down, and draft, so thats enough for me.
IMO, both games are solid.
2K does have the advantage in anlog controls, but thats to be expected cuase theyve had this a s a feature for 3 years now.
I play both games.
I use 2k for a franchise mode cause I personally beleive that The Shows franchise mode is too cumbersome.
I use 29 game season mode for The Show. I still get to call players up and down, and draft, so thats enough for me.
# 11
DJ @ May 6
Tril, I agree with you on Analog controls; 2K's are more user-friendly than The Show's.
Rudy, I'm curious as to why The Show was only a 2-day rental for you. Did you just not have enough time to play more? Does the game, even with the new additions, feel stale to you at this point?
Rudy, I'm curious as to why The Show was only a 2-day rental for you. Did you just not have enough time to play more? Does the game, even with the new additions, feel stale to you at this point?
# 12
Sabredj @ May 6
I appreciate what 2K is doing especially with MLB Today but this year's Show is possibly the best sports game I've ever played. If NCAA football or Madden could get close to this level I think my head would explode.
# 13
rudyjuly2 @ May 6
DJ, I only did a 2 day rental instead of a week because the rest of my week was pretty busy lol. Plus I do know what to expect from the game in most areas already having played a lot from '06 to '09.
The biggest thing I wanted to see was the hitting system and if I could adjust to the pitch speed. This is something that has always been an issue for me in the Show. I always lower pitch speed to 0 and pray I can still have a decent eye. Unfortunately it is too fast for me in Show 11. 2K11 allows me to customize this for me. I can earn walks, pull fastballs and have fun. I can't do that with the Show and it is even more frustrating knowing how simple a fix this would be for the developers. Just go to a 20 point slider system so they have more power. I don't understand why they hate sliders and refuse to let us play the game we want.
The biggest thing I wanted to see was the hitting system and if I could adjust to the pitch speed. This is something that has always been an issue for me in the Show. I always lower pitch speed to 0 and pray I can still have a decent eye. Unfortunately it is too fast for me in Show 11. 2K11 allows me to customize this for me. I can earn walks, pull fastballs and have fun. I can't do that with the Show and it is even more frustrating knowing how simple a fix this would be for the developers. Just go to a 20 point slider system so they have more power. I don't understand why they hate sliders and refuse to let us play the game we want.
# 14
Dazraz @ May 6
I've just returned from a vacation in Florida where I picked up both The Show & MLB 2K11 for the PS3. Having spent some time with both games, for me, The Show wins hands down. This is coming from someone who actually felt that this year I might have been switching allegiance.
There are elements of Sony's game that definately feel stale, commentary being the most obvious. Despite that The Show is just so much more smoother & more polished than 2K's effort. I certainly enjoy certain elements of 2K11, however I can't help but feel that this is, in comparison, somewhat second rate to it's competitor.
There are elements of Sony's game that definately feel stale, commentary being the most obvious. Despite that The Show is just so much more smoother & more polished than 2K's effort. I certainly enjoy certain elements of 2K11, however I can't help but feel that this is, in comparison, somewhat second rate to it's competitor.
# 15
NAFBUC @ May 7
I really respect your opinions Rudy. It is rare to find someone who can be objective when discussing 2K vs The Show.
thanks for the great read
thanks for the great read
rudyjuly2
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Hopefully you guys get the patch for 2K11 soon. I can't believe there hasn't even been a mention of timeframe yet and we are now into May.