NBA 2K17 News Post

Operation Sports at 2K Sports Part Two: The Misconceptions About Game Development

02:26 PM - April 3, 2017 by RaychelSnr

Editor Chris Sanner recently got a chance to go out to 2K and chat with several members of the NBA 2K team about what it was like to go from a member of the OS and Sports Gaming Community to working in gaming. In part one we looked at what each of the guy's experience was going from community member to game creator. Today, in part two, we are looking at misconceptions about what game creation is like along with a discussion on the importance of experience in getting hired in games.

Coming up in future videos we have more conversations on what its like to work in gaming, how to get noticed by game development companies, and how you can help improve games even if you aren't an employee.

As part of this series, we are also wanting to encourage anyone interested in working in gaming to look into it. The results of what former OS'ers have been able to do at 2K Sports in particular speaks for itself.

If you are interested in seeing if you have what it takes, we are encouraging all members of the community to contact Chad Riggleman, a recruiter at 2K Sports, about how you may fit in with their future. E-mail Chad at [email protected].

Game: NBA 2K17Reader Score: 7/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PC / PS3 / PS4 / Xbox 360 / Xbox OneVotes for game: 14 - View All

Member Comments

# 21 NateDogPack12 @ 04/05/17 07:30 PM

All, this thread has generated some substantive and probative discussion, but let's keep it friendly. Tension has risen in the thread and snarky comments have been lodged. I don't want to intervene further. Thanks.

# 22 ChaseB @ 04/05/17 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retropyro


	Are you serious? If the game took 1 minute to load, I'd be very happy. I can't start this game without a minimum 10 minute wait just to get to the main menu. That is beyond ridiculous. I'm not alone, just go on the 2K Twitter support. Never mind that 2K support is an absolute joke, completely useless. How can you seriously say that something like this is OK? NBA 2K is the ONLY game with this problem. The post by BegBy below is spot on. And yes, I would pull engineers off others things, because if my consumers can't even get into the game in a reasonable time (again, we're not talking 1 minute here but 10, minimum) what use is there in fixing anything else. You don't construct a building with a flimsy foundation and put your best people to work on making the apartments look pretty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainZ


	Chase must have been talking about the "standard" load times when its not bugging out of like 1 min or 30 seconds. I doubt he meant the glitched load times of 10-15 minutes are acceptable.... Also, no way that is going to be allowed to happen next year lol. They would have seen the backlash no doubt and some a$$ would have been kicked about it...

Ahhhhh, sorry if I caused unneeded turmoil here. Retro, I thought you were just talking about loading into game, that is, like, from when you select your team to when you get on the court. I was saying that sort of loading can be hard to shorten etc. because of what I was describing -- what 2K has done in that department is rather dope overall. In terms of the game itself loading and bugs and all that, yeah no, it's not okay for it to take 10 minutes obviously. My fault for the confusion!

Quote:

Originally Posted by BegBy


	All these videos do is showcase that hiring people without experience is unsurprisingly, a bad idea. Hiring people with little to no experience and as a result producing less than standard (a metric set by them) product shouldn't be shocking to anyone. What's shocking is consumer acceptance of their "We're trying, but it's hard" statement. Every industry is filled with new talent/apprentices/greenhorns, etc, but they are also surrounded by experience as to not detract from primary goals. ........... Keep the less experienced staff on. Use their passion and basketball knowledge as it's not something to balk at. However, surround them with more people who can help translate their intangibles into actual code that makes the game good again. Or be transparent with the community and admit that 2K's focus has been and will be online modes that generate cash as opposed to NBA simulation basketball.

You walk your own comment back within your own post, and you have in follow-up posts as well. I know others harped on it as well, but this is a confusing line of thinking as you sort of try to play both sides here in a way that doesn't work (plus you don't really have much insight into who is actually on staff etc.) You say don't hire people with no experience, then say keep them on. But then you've also said surround them with better people and that you never said there weren't experienced people there etc. in another post. In short, I'm sort of perplexed what the beef you have here is beyond saying you think the game has stagnated (fine opinion to have) as your tips on how to fix it sort of go against each other. I guess what you're trying to say is have veterans around them to keep their desire to do good in check and focused, which is fine, but you really took a weird way to get there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BegBy


	Next year will be the first NBA 2K title I haven't either pre ordered or bought first day since the very first game they released. Until I get confirmation from OS reviews that legacy issues are fixed and the overly physical gameplay and complete lack of physics are also fixed, I am done giving them my money. It's sad that I don't play a basketball game, and basically haven't in 2 years, but I refuse to give them any more money. I'd like to see more people go the same route because 2K will have no choice but to change.

I don't think you should pre-order a game even if you think 100 percent it's going to be dope. It just doesn't make much sense to me. Just buy it day one if you think you're going to like it, why pre-order? But hey, I agree with the physicality and physics stuff, I wrote a lot on them for the last version and a lot of it I still think holds up, and so a different article is linked in each word below:

So

Many

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To

Scope

Out

# 23 Retropyro @ 04/05/17 09:35 PM

I think I've gotten tired trying to ask 2K support about, so I obviously didn't make it clear what I meant in my first post.

Honestly, I'm just fed up with the way 2K seems to brush off this kind of thing. They know what it is, hear from so many having the problem. But when you contact support, they play dumb. It's just very frustrating.

As people have said, just vote with your wallet. Sadly I will. I've never not bought a copy of NBA 2K as at it's core, I adore the game immensely. But the support or lack of the last few years, I just can't do it anymore.

While I do understand how complicated a process it is to create a game, especially one so deep, I think there is a disconnect the other way. I think many of these developers have forgotten what it's like to be the consumer.

# 24 Black Bruce Wayne @ 04/05/17 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nova91


	Oh please...2K17 is a bad game, period. Y'all can sugarcoat it, soft sell and white knight it all you want. 2K17 DID NOT live up the quality that 2K has established and quite frankly it has been diminishing for a while now. Just because we don't work in gaming doesn't mean we can't recognize when a game is bad; most of us have been playing video games for decades and most of us are sports games enthusiasts, but more importantly we're NBA basketball fans and this game, at times, does not even come close to resembling an NBA game at all when it comes down to oncourt gameplay. From a gamer aspect, loading times that take seemingly forever, game modes/features not working as advertised, poor servers etc are extremely frustrating. We know it's not easy and most of us aren't saying it is, but come on, this is getting ridiculous.

Yet you keep buying the product and keep talking about a product you just said is bad. Why? Are you just trolling at this point? For what? If it is this bad as you say, then cut your ties and walk away. Why can't you do that I wonder...

# 25 Black Bruce Wayne @ 04/05/17 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BegBy


	It's good to see more people express discontent. Just because they made a video that basically shout outs OS and explains that they have awesome jobs (that they find rather difficult) shouldn't excuse this year's release. It's a bad game from a simulation standpoint. Letting them know will hopefully push them to make a better game. We know it's possible, as they have released better iterations in the past, so I doubt they couldn't get back to the standard we expect. Next year will be the first NBA 2K title I haven't either pre ordered or bought first day since the very first game they released. Until I get confirmation from OS reviews that legacy issues are fixed and the overly physical gameplay and complete lack of physics are also fixed, I am done giving them my money. It's sad that I don't play a basketball game, and basically haven't in 2 years, but I refuse to give them any more money. I'd like to see more people go the same route because 2K will have no choice but to change.

I dont undertand the point of being here if you havent bought the game in two years. You dont add anything. And why would you like to see people go the same route? Everyone doesnt share your mindset. No offense, but tI dont understand guys like yourself and others, who continue to come to the forum for a product that they dont support or like anymore.

I've seen many of your posts and I get it. How long are you going to keep telling us the same thing over and over? Why not divorce yourself completely from 2K? Alot of us still like the game and like to have conversations with others who do. I've been critical and yes there are flaws, but you have completely denoucned the game. Thats fine but why still be here? I just dont understand that, especially when you dont even want to help.

# 26 Smirkin Dirk @ 04/05/17 11:18 PM

BegBy I completely disagree with the point you've made a few times that 2K markets at a casual and easily monetised audience.

The game has some very deep basketball concepts in there. We can disagree about how well they are implemented, but they are in there. They arent in other sports games.

Now sure there are modes in there for the people who want to run up and down and dunk and pay for dunk packages, but you're ignoring the fact 2K does not have one target audience. It tries to cater for everyone. Is that a weakness? Maybe, maybe not.

But that group can enjoy the game. I only play MyLeague and can there is a heap of stuff in there for me to enjoy. I keep saying it; no sports game has an offline franchise mode as deep as MyLeague.

# 27 swac07 @ 04/06/17 12:06 AM

This was a dope video...great to see how passionate these guys are about their craft and 2k

# 28 nova91 @ 04/06/17 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Bruce Wayne


	Yet you keep buying the product and keep talking about a product you just said is bad. Why? Are you just trolling at this point? For what? If it is this bad as you say, then cut your ties and walk away. Why can't you do that I wonder...

White Knight

How is what I said trolling? Because I said your beloved 2K17 is a bad game? As far as cutting ties, I haven't bought a copy of 2K since 2K14 or 2K15. And even though 2K17 is bad, 2K as a company has earned a bit of support, faith and patience due to their previous high quality games and it doesn't hurt that 2K is the only playable up to date NBA game on the market. Instead of people blowing smoke up 2Ks butts, they should be holding 2K to the standard that 2K set for itself and not accepting the increasingly and shockingly flawed games that have been released. 2K has a wonderful development team in place, if they're able to take their ideas and get them to gel together where those ideas work like they're supposed to reamains to be seen.

# 29 NoLeafClover @ 04/06/17 07:22 AM

Again, as someone who manages departments of a software team, we need to direct the blame more at the upper tier of 2K's corporate structure and project management than the developers. The devs have to follow the corporate instruction and deadlines they are set, and being a public company the higher ups are judged purely on how much they increase the value of shares for the shareholders.

This means that, unless they're willing to drastically increase the size of their dev team which requires $$ (and even then simply adding more devs to a new project doesn't necessarily result in increased productivity with a code base as large as 2K's would be) then resources will go towards whatever results in the highest quantity of VC bought.

You can argue that a lack of attention to bugs/details/simulation will offset some of that with more serious and long term players leaving, however all it takes is one new guy who drops $1k on MyTeam for every ten oldschool MyLeague players who never spend a time on VC and stop playing.

Trust me, I know how some of the management at 2K probably feel as there are features for our software apps I've been requesting since literally 4 years ago now and still haven't been implemented as the focus is always given to the quickest route to the $$ bottom line.

# 30 Gosens6 @ 04/06/17 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BegBy


	Fair enough. You're right in that I'm ignoring 2K targeting sim players as an audience. Definitely an exaggeration on my part, but I do truly feel that sim players are not their primary target. And on that note it seems like we're being ignored a lot of the time. I think MLB The Show has a really great franchise mode that easily rivals anything 2K has to offer. I also think that it does baseball strategy very well. Much better than 2K's basketball strategy in both theory and in practice. I guess that's apples and oranges though.

Ya know, I didn't want to chime in on this thread, but I had too.

I'm an avid baseball nut (maybe even more so than basketball) and if we're being completely honest, MLB The Shows franchise mode can't touch NBA 2Ks MyLeague with a 30 foot pole.

The Shows franchise mode is so shallow in comparison with everything that happens during a baseball season, and in the off season.

Hell, you can't even renew contracts during the season. Trades are still incredibly unrealistic, etc. It's the barebones version of running an MLB franchise.

The gameplay is top notch, bar none. But it can't even touch OOTP baseball when it comes to simulation management, and it's still not near the level of 2Ks MyLeague, plain and simple.

I'm an offline player exclusively and I barely touch MLB The Shows franchise mode because it feels so bare bones and uninspired. There's not even full career stat tracking. It's too shallow for my tastes.

Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

# 31 jfsolo @ 04/06/17 11:24 AM

A week ago in the Defense-main focus thread, the CZAR popped in and acknowledged that their implementation on defense this year fell short, said that they are going to focus even more on that side of the ball and that he would be helping out in that area.

With the way the game has played the last two years, I now view what is said with a lot more skepticism than I use to, but for me that modicum of transparency is still very important. I would have been disheartened, especially given the ease of communicating information these days, for them to have gone the the whole cycle without an explicit acknowledgement of the problems that existed this year.

So we'll see what ultimately happens with 2K18, but a least now I feel more hopeful than I did for most of the last several months.

# 32 rhein77 @ 04/06/17 01:03 PM

I am hoping that every employee can right the ship with this years release.

I am disappointed because I am not playing the same game out of the box that I paid for with the last 2 releases.

I was all excited about the capabilities after playing the prelude and then the dribbling is not the same after the patches. Transition defense... Interior Defense and responsiveness are not the same.

I actually think that NBA 2k14 last gen plays and controls better than the last two offerings... I just don't understand how that can be with better technology.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

# 33 Black Bruce Wayne @ 04/07/17 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nova91


	White Knight How is what I said trolling? Because I said your beloved 2K17 is a bad game? As far as cutting ties, I haven't bought a copy of 2K since 2K14 or 2K15. And even though 2K17 is bad, 2K as a company has earned a bit of support, faith and patience due to their previous high quality games and it doesn't hurt that 2K is the only playable up to date NBA game on the market. Instead of people blowing smoke up 2Ks butts, they should be holding 2K to the standard that 2K set for itself and not accepting the increasingly and shockingly flawed games that have been released. 2K has a wonderful development team in place, if they're able to take their ideas and get them to gel together where those ideas work like they're supposed to reamains to be seen.

Its trolling because you just said you haven't bought the game since NBA2k14. So, what do you want here? The game has flaws and we know what they are. You constantly saying the game is bad without something constructive doesnt help the issue. Its just flaming.

# 34 sk8board @ 04/07/17 04:42 AM

cannot feel sorry for 2K. They made so much money this year and I'm sure none of that will be reflected in 2k18. it's like you're telling me to feel sorry for the billionaire who gets to drive a Ferrari to a private gym, because he still has to work out

Quote:

Originally Posted by BA2929


	You could take your money and leave it in your wallet come Sept/Oct if you're that dissatisfied with this game and the direction it's heading. I mean, you don't HAVE to buy it. I fully expect the 2k board of OS to be 100% dead come the release of 2k18 with no comments because 99% of everyone on it this year just complains about how bad 2k17 is. No way I'd buy 2k18 if I was as mad as most of you are. Anyway, I enjoyed this video and would love to see the same sort of thing happen with the MLB The Show crew. Love seeing some behind the scenes stuff like this.

he's right there is no competition and you cannot take your money elsewhere he has a point

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