Madden NFL 16 News Post

EA/Madden Likeness Lawsuit Moving Forward...

07:01 PM - March 22, 2016 by RaychelSnr

The US Supreme Court denied an attempt by EA to dismiss a suit centered around the game publisher's use of retired players likenesses in Madden NFL Football.

Quote:


	"Thousands of retired NFL athletes originally filed suit against EA in 2010, alleging that the publisher violated their state-law right to publicity by using their likenesses on historic teams in Madden titles from 2001-2009. Like the collegiate athletes who received $60 million in the settlement of a similar case, the NFL players in question did not appear in the Madden games under their real names. However, all other identifying traits � height, weight, ethnicity and the like � were true to life, and the virtual athletes were rated to perform like their real-world counterparts. Retired NFL players' lawsuit against EA's Madden series can go forward, court says (update) EA did not compensate these players for the use of their likenesses. Since 1994, the publisher has paid licensing fees to the NFL Players Association for the rights to use active NFL athletes' names and likenesses. Retired players currently appear in Madden's Ultimate Team mode, and are paid for it.

In case this rings a bell, EA also just recently settled a case involving NCAA Football which did the same thing but for college athletes. That settlement cost EA $60 million.

In the big picture, its just incredibly unlikely any attempts at historical teams and/or any 'generic rosters' with realistic-ish players will ever be attempted again in any sports game. It would certainly seem EA will attempt to settle the case with the former NFL players as they did with the college athletes. We'll be following the case step by step!

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Member Comments

# 21 Hooe @ 03/23/16 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tril


	CH2k8 shipped with generic rosters, and that didnt diminish the game one bit.

In the eyes of the case law established in these recent court cases involving EA Sports NCAA Football, College Hoops 2K8 absolutely did not ship with generic rosters, rather it shipped with the likenesses of some 3600 players on disc (rough estimate of 12 players per team * 300 teams).

According to the precedent established by these cases, the white UNC PF #50 who was 6'9" and 250 lbs with great ratings in the game was the likeness of Tyler Hansbrough. To that end, should former college players sue Take 2 Interactive about their likenesses appearing in College Hoops 2K games, they'd win.

Your point about roster turnover rate in college sports is valid, especially for career-mode oriented customers, but the games still leveraged the star power of the most prominent college athletes to sell copies, and without that any truly generic college game would struggle in ways that NCAA Football and College Hoops 2K did not. I also think that, given the graphical expectations of console video games nowadays, a generic college game would struggle a bit, especially as the pro counterparts are including real-life faces for every player, and in some cases tattoos as well.

# 22 Junior Moe @ 03/23/16 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjcheezhead


	That's the question, and I'm not sure I think even NCAA football would be. EA used the foundation of madden for their college game and truth is that it didn't sell tons of copies. A stand alone college game that had to pay for all its development cost with just its own sales might not be a worthy investment. When you add the chance of getting sued over likenesses that can be anything from jersey numbers, to height/weight, to some other vague similarity and it gets really dicey.

That's why I think that it's EA or bust with regards to college football. Same with 2K and NCAA Basketball. They are the only ones with the resources, and an engine already. Plus, they only recently ended the NCAA series. The NCAA Football series sold 3 to 4 million copies, IIRC (not sure though). So there's a market there. Especially now with the playoffs. As far as lawsuits, I would imagine that they could include a disclaimer like "none of the players in this game are meant to represent any current or former collegiate athlete". And actually make them not. Like how Madden was before they got the NFLPA license.

# 23 Junior Moe @ 03/23/16 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tril


	you're right. I think on the college level, generic rosters could work as long as teh schools are authentic. CH2k8 shipped with generic rosters, and that didnt diminish the game one bit. College football might be different, becasue of a biger more hardcore fan base. But again I think as long as the schools and conferences are authentic then it wont make a difference. The beauty of college sports game legacy modes are that the player turn over rate is high. ts 4 years years so rosters become generic quickly anyways. In addition, the EA college football title and 2k College hoops had more than solid gameplay and a robust recruiting mode, which keeps the game fresh. just give users the option to edit and customize rosters. with the popularity of college sports on teh increase, these games will sell.

Yep. But they would have to be generic. Like totally! Not facsimiles or anything cute. For Legacy people like myself it's not a problem. But I won't lie, I did like having the "real" players in CH2K and NCAA Football and drafting them into NBA2K and Madden, respectively. The lawsuits killed that and I do believe that the collegiate players are being exploited in a sense. But that's neither here nor there. I'm fine with not being able to edit the default stock players. As long as my Bulldogs play a pro style offense and run the rock I don't care that the RB is an 81 overall White guy named Caleb Brooks instead of Nick Chubb. Like you said, both games had great gameplay (and better features to me) and both engines (Madden and NBA 2K) have only gotten better. I think NCAA Football would be a smash with Madden's engine tuned and that collegiate atmosphere with our appetite for college football. CH2K with the latest 2K engine would be special. But would it sell enough to justify the costs? I don't know. Not unless it was packed with micro-transactions.

# 24 whitey7886 @ 03/23/16 07:51 PM

This my be a silly idea or something people wouldn't want. If the game must have real people in it then what if EA made 2017 with the kids drafted this year. Pay them to be in the game and make everyone else generic? Or do 2 years ago so you have kids from 2015 and 2016 in the game. Then allow you to cutom everything. In this case you would have real players and the game. This is just an idea that popped into my head. The downfall is you have last years team but you can always sim and then have them drafted but you would also be able to update the rest of the players if you wanted. HEck at this point I would buy it to have a new NCAA game.

# 25 Toupal @ 03/23/16 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitey7886


	This my be a silly idea or something people wouldn't want. If the game must have real people in it then what if EA made 2017 with the kids drafted this year. Pay them to be in the game and make everyone else generic? Or do 2 years ago so you have kids from 2015 and 2016 in the game. Then allow you to cutom everything. In this case you would have real players and the game. This is just an idea that popped into my head. The downfall is you have last years team but you can always sim and then have them drafted but you would also be able to update the rest of the players if you wanted. HEck at this point I would buy it to have a new NCAA game.

In addition to that, they could used generic rosters, but throw in current players from the NFLPA, or retired players that consent to them using their likeness.

So for example Michigan:
Use generic rosters, but fill in guys like Charles Woodson, Jim Harbaugh, Mike Hart, Tim Biankabatuka, Denard Robinson, etc... Etc...

# 26 BSchwartz07 @ 03/24/16 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tril


	the beginning of the end for sports titles with real rosters. Im sure the future contracts for player likeliness in video games will be much higher. Everything with professional sports and athletes is trending higher when it comes to cost. So the gaming industry will be no different. With that in mind its time for companies like 2k to get back into making sports titles with generic customizable rosters. generic sports titles that creates their own league history as you play might be a huge draw.

Not at all. Current players will never be an issue b/c the players union can negotiate a deal, no different than jersey sales. It is the beginning of the end of anyone who isn't in the union. Honestly, outside of 2K's historic mode a few years ago (which they did a VERY good job with), I've never really been a fan of historic players. In Madden I've always laughed at how intent they are at getting helmets and accessories to match some player from 1975, but have none of the things you see on the field in 2015...

# 27 NFCastle @ 03/24/16 11:28 AM

This is why we can't have nice things...

# 28 noplace @ 03/25/16 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplerat


	You can complain about the people doing the suing all you want but this is all on EA and their exclusive license. You all know damn well that if another company put out a football game which cloned the NFL teams and players the way EA does with these retired and college players kEA would be the ones pitching a fit and suing them into oblivion. The anti-competitive monopoly EA has with Madden kills any possible market for these players to sell their likeness in video games and then EA has the audacity to rip them off on top of that. I love playing Madden but I do hope EA gets hit hard on this one too. They deserve it.

Spot on, EA added those legend players for one reason only and that was to completely kill 2K from doing anything remotely close to pro football. Needless to say it backfired.

# 29 aholbert32 @ 03/25/16 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noplace


	Spot on, EA added those legend players for one reason only and that was to completely kill 2K from doing anything remotely close to pro football. Needless to say it backfired.

I'm confused.

The lawsuit relates to the use of legends likenesses from 2001 to 2009.

2001.

The NFL/EA license started in 2004. APF came out in 2007.

So you are claiming that back in 2001, EA thought "Lets make historic rosters with no names to kill a game that 2k may make 6 years from now"?

Really?

# 30 redsox4evur @ 03/25/16 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aholbert32


	I'm confused. The lawsuit relates to the use of legends likenesses from 2001 to 2009. 2001. The NFL/EA license started in 2004. APF came out in 2007. So you are claiming that back in 2001, EA thought "Lets make historic rosters with no names to kill a game that 2k may make 6 years from now"? Really?

#IwillsaywhateverIcantoshowmyhateforEAandtheExclus ivelicense.

# 31 roadman @ 03/25/16 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CM Hooe


	EA had used the likenesses of historic players as far back as Madden NFL 2001, likely earlier. In fact, someone can spot check me on this but I don't recall any recent Madden game (from Madden NFL 06 on, when the exclusive license kicked in) even having historic teams in the game for retired players to sue about. Finally, since retired players are not members of the NFL Players Association, they are free to license their likeness to anyone they choose. This literally has nothing to do with the exclusive license.

Looks like this post needs to be brought forward again.

# 32 kjcheezhead @ 03/26/16 01:37 PM

The exclusive license didn't cause this lawsuit but it's naive to believe it has no effect on retired players.

Historic teams aren't popular anymore, but they get paid to be in MUT packs. With EA owning the NFL, there isn't another game vying for these players rights. Sure another generic game can technically buy the rights, but gamers rejected that in APF. Instead of having 2-3 games competing for the rights to historic players they have to take the deal EA gives them or nothing.

So in turn, legends are more aggressive with lawsuits because there is less opportunity for them to cash in on their namesake. The exclusive license creates a butterfly effect that damages in ways most people don't care to notice.

# 33 roadman @ 03/26/16 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjcheezhead


	The exclusive license didn't cause this lawsuit but it's naive to believe it has no effect on retired players. Historic teams aren't popular anymore, but they get paid to be in MUT packs. With EA owning the NFL, there isn't another game vying for these players rights. Sure another generic game can technically buy the rights, but gamers rejected that in APF. Instead of having 2-3 games competing for the rights to historic players they have to take the deal EA gives them or nothing. So in turn, legends are more aggressive with lawsuits because there is less opportunity for them to cash in on their namesake. The exclusive license creates a butterfly effect that damages in ways most people don't care to notice.

The legends are making a one time easy money grab. It's as if they didn't make enough or save enough when they were playing.

They can cash in on their name sake in many other ways than video games. It's just too easy to sit in the recliner and make money on this.

I highly doubt Tony Dorsett or Earl Campbell are sitting down and thinking aloud, if I were in more football games, I could make much more money.

# 34 kjcheezhead @ 03/26/16 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadman


	The legends are making a one time easy money grab. It's as if they didn't make enough or save enough when they were playing. They can cash in on their name sake in many other ways than video games. It's just too easy to sit in the recliner and make money on this. I highly doubt Tony Dorsett or Earl Campbell are sitting down and thinking aloud, if I were in more football games, I could make much more money.

Easy money grab? It's a lawsuit that could take a decade or more to see anything.

Would you not be upset if you're Tony Dorsett or Earl Campbell and you go to your mailbox and find a check from EA that you feel is half what you're worth to them, knowing you could have a bidding war on your likeness if there was a 2k version of MUT. Or better yet, that you could be collecting 2 checks worth your true value instead of 1 for what EA decides it is?

It doesn't matter how much they made or spent playing. That's irrelevant to what they deserve to get from having their likenesses used in products today. The exclusive limits those opportunities. That's a fact that's indisputable.

# 35 aholbert32 @ 03/26/16 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjcheezhead


	Easy money grab? It's a lawsuit that could take a decade or more to see anything. Would you not be upset if you're Tony Dorsett or Earl Campbell and you go to your mailbox and find a check from EA that you feel is half what you're worth to them, knowing you could have a bidding war on your likeness if there was a 2k version of MUT. Or better yet, that you could be collecting 2 checks worth your true value instead of 1 for what EA decides it is? It doesn't matter how much they made or spent playing. That's irrelevant to what they deserve to get from having their likenesses used in products today. The exclusive limits those opportunities. That's a fact that's indisputable.

It wont take anywhere near a decade. If anything, this will likely be settled given that EA wasnt able to get the suit tossed at the early stages and they dont have much of an argument based on the precedent set by the Kellert and Obannon cases. Plus, EA has no real incentive to go to trial. Like most major corporations, EA likely has an E&O insurance policy that covers likeness claims and their insurer is going to foot the bill.

# 36 roadman @ 03/26/16 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjcheezhead


	Easy money grab? It's a lawsuit that could take a decade or more to see anything. Would you not be upset if you're Tony Dorsett or Earl Campbell and you go to your mailbox and find a check from EA that you feel is half what you're worth to them, knowing you could have a bidding war on your likeness if there was a 2k version of MUT. Or better yet, that you could be collecting 2 checks worth your true value instead of 1 for what EA decides it is? It doesn't matter how much they made or spent playing. That's irrelevant to what they deserve to get from having their likenesses used in products today. The exclusive limits those opportunities. That's a fact that's indisputable.

Aholbert answered for me, my whole post was predicated on EA settling out of court, not taking a decade to wait everything out.

In addition, I don't think anyone, retired players or anyone lives in the what if world. If a person lives in that space, that person probably has a lot of regrets in life. That is a fact that is indisputable, too.

I find it highly unlikely Dorsett or Campbell sit back and wonder what if 2K made a game too. That's similar to an investor stating, I lost a lot of money on my CoorsMiller stock, I wonder what would happened if I bought and sold Apple stock instead.

I'm not saying the retired players don't deserve their money from EA from the likeness issue, I'm saying they aren't entitled to anything they don't have control over on what ifs.

And that's it from me on any license talk because it's a quite a reach from the topic at hand. I'll agree to disagree on that note.

# 37 4thQtrStre5S @ 03/28/16 03:15 PM

I hate lawyers, they have to be the lowest form of life, along with people who bring up these kinds of lawsuits.

# 38 redsox4evur @ 03/28/16 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4thQtrStre5S


	I hate lawyers, they have to be the lowest form of life, along with people who bring up these kinds of lawsuits.

I'm going to make a multi-hundred MILLION dollar game using full likeness without your name and not pay you? What would you do? Would you say I am fine with this or would want some sort of payment?

# 39 Toupal @ 03/28/16 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsox4evur


	I'm going to make a multi-hundred MILLION dollar game using full likeness without your name and not pay you? What would you do? Would you say I am fine with this or would want some sort of payment?

Well if you're a flop in the pros like Ed O'Bannon and Sam Keller, you're going to be searching for some kind of paycheck.

# 40 dubcity @ 03/28/16 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsox4evur


	I'm going to make a multi-hundred MILLION dollar game using full likeness without your name and not pay you? What would you do? Would you say I am fine with this or would want some sort of payment?

Yeah, I swear people are letting their desire to play a new college game fuel their bitterness and judgment on this entire issue. Which is ridiculous.

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