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Operation Sports - Press Row Podcast: Madden NFL 25 Next-Gen with Vic Lugo

10:47 AM - October 17, 2013 by Steve_OS

The 50th (!) Episode of the Press Row Podcast is a one-on-one interview by host Rich Grisham (@richgrisham) with Madden 25 NFL designer Vic Lugo, one of the core gameplay leaders as the Madden franchise moves into the PS4/Xbox One generation. The conversation hits a lot of the fundamental aspects of what happens on the field, including locomotion, physics, blocking, controls, and how players interact with each other. It�s the kind of conversation you�ll hear nowhere else but the Press Row Podcast on Operation Sports.

Send us your feedback! We love to hear from you and can�t wait to read your stuff on the air in a future episode. Do it one of these ways:

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Also, the Press Row Podcast is now available on iTunes (https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/...ow/id563624090) and Stitcher Radio (http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/oper...ss-row-podcast), so subscribe to it and rate it too!

Lastly, be sure to check out our friends at Weekend Confirmed right here: http://www.shacknews.com/tag/weekend-confirmed. If you�re not already a listener, give it a shot. We�re all big fans!

Enjoy the show!

Run Time: 49 Minutes

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Member Comments

# 81 radatdude2 @ 10/18/13 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by royounggoku


	Does anyone know if they said there would be a demo on next gen consoles?

No they didn't mention it, but the kiosks should be showing up soon

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

# 82 roadman @ 10/18/13 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBuddyHobbs


	Vic said himself that it isn't much of a graphical leap from gen 3 to gen 4. There are people on this forum that are claiming Madden is on par graphically with 2k. Either that or are saying 2k didn't impress them graphically. The ones making those claims have been the same ones that have endlessly defended Madden.

Ok, thanks, gotcha.

Personally, as I stated in here before, I've never been one that was interested in the graphics department. I've played worse looking games on a PC, but the game play was stellar.

If the moving parts are all looking good and the AI is on par with the other sports games, I'll be good with that.

Same with this Vic Lugo interview, show me don't tell me.

# 83 hotsauceme @ 10/18/13 01:28 AM

For me, I don't mind if the game is only a marginal step up graphically. I'm looking for gameplay, the AI and realism. That's what I want. I would like The AI to identify matchups and attack them. I would like the AI to stop overrunning the hook route by 5 yards every time it's run. I want ratings to matter more than I want graphics to shine and I want to feel the hits rather than watch the grass wave in the wind. I really think this game can feel totally different and it really all boils down to how well the offensive and defensive lines battle each other, that's where the game starts is in the trenches you control the front seven you control the game. If this game fails to hit on those areas I really believe it will be a huge disappointment to me and to the rest of the community, we've been waiting a long time for an awesome football game from EA sports and I think it's time that they delivered. If this game is the Xbox 360 Madden 25 version with the precision modifier 2.0. I will literally snap that b%#*h in half!!!!

# 84 Hiro1 @ 10/18/13 04:50 AM

I've wanted this game to be good so bad. Every day I come to OS for updates it feels like a kick to the balls. I wouldn't say I've lost complete faith, but in the past couple of weeks it's dropped down to an all time low. I hate basketball as a sport so bad, but That trailer released on Thursday has me seriously considering purchasing.

I know everyone likes to compare all sports games, but I imagine football is THE most difficult to program. Basketball has 10 men on the court at a time who brush against each other from time to time. Football has 22 players on the field all of which we expect to think, react act collide every play without hiccups.

# 85 Moegames @ 10/18/13 06:29 AM

I am not trying to point this one dev out because it is probably a work-environment issue but...You know the real problem i had with the interview is how he stated he was "relieved" that they were done and done early, maybe not in those exact words but still...to me that shows me little passion and enthusiasm for game developing. I talk to various developers from time to time at "other places" and when i talk to them they have a REAL passion & REAL excitement for their job duty on the game they are developing..example..i talk to one particular developer from Naughty Dog at NeoGaf via PM's there on occasion as he is a friend of mine and when i ask him questions on the project's he's working on..he talks to me with passion and even though he has a deadline to get his job task done for that particular game..he sometimes takes his work "home" with him to work on it "after hours". Not only that but he tells me the stress that comes with this job but yet he says he loves it and loves working down to the wire before their titles go Gold...i just sense a love for making great games from other developers/studios more so than i do with EA a lot of the times.

It's not just this one example neither..there are other dev's i know personally that have a HUGE PASSION for their game but i've read/listened to countless interviews from past EA dev's that gave me a bad taste in my mouth just by the words they use, it's a dead giveaway man, i tell you i been around a lot of developers in my years and i know when people are simply not happy or hate their job as it sticks out like a soar thumb compared to dev's that are happy, proud and enthusiastic about their game...you know when you are not happy with your job..you tend to be a bit lackluster with your performance...this is true for all of us that work in the "real world"..right? Right....so the same can be said for developers as well..if they are relieved they are done early or talking like "well im just happy that we got done early and we can kick back,etc" like this guy in this interview stated on Madden...i dunno, maybe i am taking this wrong but the impression i got is that there isnt a lot of "enthusiasm" in Madden anymore...even back when Ian Cummings was lead designer...while i would see some motivation with him ..i always felt deep inside he simply was not happy doing what he was doing and was just doing what he was being paid to do but not really digging deep enough with REAL passion. Not saying Ian Cummings didn't have REAL passion but maybe the environment there at Tiburon is bad? You know stuff like that spreads like cancer..it really does. Have you ever had a boss that was a total jerk or the atmosphere at your work place sucked really bad? If so..didnt it suck to have to wake up each morning knowing where you had to go to work each day?

Im telling you guys and i could be taking this out of proportion but my intuition is hardly ever wrong and from listening to this interview..i got a strong feeling that these dev's at Tiburon are lacking REAL passion or they are simply not happy with current conditions at Tiburon.

I said it before and i'll say it again...putting band aid's on the situation at Tiburon is NOT going to work..a complete major overhaul is needed at EA Tiburon..heck at EA all together. It no longer has any real passion for great games but more for the Benjamins...that is the problem today with most game studios..its zero focus on great unique fresh idea's for game development but rather skimp as much as possible but yet gain the most profits...don't get me wrong.. the gaming industry has to generate profits but there MUST be a balance of that AND a passion for game development to create the best game possible and this simply is no longer true with 90% of game studios. Oh remember back in the early 2000's? All the great new IP's coming out left and right...now they are much more rare and even sports games has taken a idle seat for the last 5 years..not much innovation coming from most sports games these days..sad indeed, Greed has ruin everything, corporate America has stuck its ugly head in the once great game studios..everything is freaking robotic now days, going through the motions to just make a buck..everything else is on the back burner now along with the passion for creating great games. Yes, sad indeed but i cling on to hope because that is all that we can do as passionate gamers.

# 86 LBzrule @ 10/18/13 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiro1


	I've wanted this game to be good so bad. Every day I come to OS for updates it feels like a kick to the balls. I wouldn't say I've lost complete faith, but in the past couple of weeks it's dropped down to an all time low. I hate basketball as a sport so bad, but That trailer released on Thursday has me seriously considering purchasing. I know everyone likes to compare all sports games, but I imagine football is THE most difficult to program. Basketball has 10 men on the court at a time who brush against each other from time to time. Football has 22 players on the field all of which we expect to think, react act collide every play without hiccups.

I'm not going to accept this as an excuse when shooters are going to have up to 16 players playing at once, with destructible environments and then MS is touting much greater A.I possibilities through the use of Azure/Cloud. Nope, I'm not accepting it.

# 87 LBzrule @ 10/18/13 08:33 AM

Yep people are not focusing on graphics for next gen.

and this is downgraded to 85k poly's for the character models. A downgrade and it looks tremendous.

# 88 LastExit @ 10/18/13 10:40 AM

Overall I liked what I heard in regards to where the game will be headed. I don't expect a complete overhaul for another 2-3 years so I'll take a much-impoved game both graphically and gameplay-wise.

What did jump out at me, however, was the moment when Vic mentioned that they polished up the game and removed as many bugs with the time that they had. I'm not expecting a perfect game, but please EA don't release a bug-riddled game. This is what I fear the most right now......that the game will drop and the bugs thread will explode. This is something that has to change at EA with this game......releasing a demo for the PS3 where the players disappeared was hopefully the low point.

# 89 playajay98 @ 10/18/13 12:16 PM

Guys, for anyone wondering about how accurate Vic's statements are, listen to the podcast again...only from the POV of a hiring manager listening to a guy trying to sell himself (his game) to get a job (your $60). He stumbles over the same EA talking points like a job applicant that's clearly not qualified but wants you to give him a job because he's a 'hard worker'. Whats especially telling is when Rich asks Vic to describe ONE stand out gameplay moment in Madden 25 next gen from his time with the game. That should be an EASY question to answer A. for someone who has put in the time Vic has with it and B. if there was in fact dynamic gameplay that actually produced WOW moments. Vic's answer at 43:30 in the podcast is...."uuuuuuum...it's..to me the things that are most amazing..yeah like you said..the emergent things that happen...so..I've stiff armed a guy...umm..done a juke.. he's fallen in front of me...got caught in a tackle..." c'mon SON!!!!!!!!!! We have ALLLLLLLL done that!!!! Vic, if you can't describe an event related to locomotion...something I haven't seen or done a million times in previous Madden titles, who can?

# 90 playajay98 @ 10/18/13 12:24 PM

Also hard to believe in true Step being an entirely different locomotion then CG when it contradicts itself in a trailer EA released. I'm not great at .gifs (someone please illustrate this for me) but at the beginning of the trailer with AP running in slo-mo, it looks great! You can see each step make contact with the ground in a very realistic way. True Step is looking good....then right before it cuts away, he does a juke then his feet skip trying to get back into the run animation again. This has been happening in current gen for years now! How in the world is it possible for this foot skipping to make it's way to next gen if true step is indeed totally different locomotion that takes advantage of next gen power, additional animations, and is calculating on the fly?

# 91 Gjordan @ 10/18/13 01:33 PM

I don't think we're getting any gameplay video today fellas...I can "Feel It". Lol

I think EA is "Feeling It" more than we are this week.

# 92 dghustla @ 10/18/13 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big FN Deal


	I want to mention something from the interview after just watching the latest NBA Live 14 trailer and reading some of the support for it. In the Lugo interview, he tells an anecdote where the increased power of the new consoles supped up Force Impact and ball carriers were stiff arming defenders "out of the stadium". No biggie, bugs happen, they fixed it but when he is talking about the issue, he and Grisham both equate that issue to being "fun". WTF? Now I'm not taking that out of context or trying to make it a bigger deal than what it was, that concept of "fun" before realism is the core philosophy at EA Tiburon. They make their games realistic to a certain extent and claim that anymore than that wouldn't be fun, which is the point of playing video games, right? smh I'm not even mad, just disappointed not having a NFL game striving for realism to play anymore. I keep going back to what Da_Czar states about "play basketball not video games" and it's clear that EA Tiburon is making video games not football. It's best for me to fade into the background and become an OS lurker again until some other developer can make football games.

You don't have to fade to black. You bring up very valid points. I agree and I think everyone has known for a while that there is a disconnect between the Developers and the Gamers. And I also feel that for too EA has had too man non-football guys around working on and making Madden. Ok fine Vic knows what physics is and is smart as hell. I get it, but does he understand the intricacies of the running back position? Does he understand what it means to run with low pad level and why? You can not create realism without bringing in experts to work on the things like that in more than a consulting capacity. Look at GTA V rockstar brought in gang members who had just gotten out of prison to re-do the entire script they wrote because it wasn't authentic enough in the vernacular they used. The first step is for EA to understand that Real is fun.

# 93 Only1LT @ 10/18/13 02:06 PM

I usually write long posts detailing my opines or feelings about a particular topic. I'm finding it harder to muster the strength to put that much effort into talking (writing) about a game that the devs put no effort into making.

I can succinctly sum up my impressions of this podcast with this:

# 94 chris luva luva @ 10/18/13 03:01 PM

EA is just covering it's *** at this point. They put out trash with next-gen Madden, and they've more recently revealed trash with their NBA Live offering. They lied about the reveal trailers.

Anything they say should be taken with a grain of salt. He basically told us to buy the game and feel it for ourselves. NO THANKS. I'll wait for some reviews or allow some other sucker to purchase it.

How many more lies will people accept before they wake up? Don't get me wrong, I hope that things are different but what have they dont to make me believe in them?

The game I used to love the most is complete garbage now. They never overhauled the last gen version, it was a carry over. They lied about the graphics at the start of last gen. It's GROUNDHOG day folks, wake up! They will never overhaul this game because they don't need to. Why? People will still mindlessly buy it. Reviewers will still give the game good ratings. The cycle will be unbroken.

# 95 Hiro1 @ 10/18/13 03:32 PM

You can throw out pics of basketball players feeling each other's faces, "sandbox" games and shooter comparisons all you want. All of that is irrelevant when creating the ideal football game.

My point was programming 11 people to work together against another 11 group of guys all in close proximity seems like it'd be much more of a challenge then any other genre or sports game.

I feel in past Maddens and maybe even gen4 devs have cut corners by linking players together rather having them think or execute on their own which results in unrealistic or scripted outcomes.

Just thinking about the calculations our systems have to make in one play of football is insane to me. All that while also looking amazing graphically just seems like a great big challenge that Ea has fell short of consistently recently.

Edit: I loved hearing him talking about mastering the game will increase longevity, but the you have to "feel it" comment made me cringe. So sick of hearing that from EA.

# 96 Gjordan @ 10/18/13 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiro1


	You can throw out pics of basketball players feeling each other's faces, "sandbox" games and shooter comparisons all you want. All of that is irrelevant when creating the ideal football game. My point was programming 11 people to work together against another 11 group of guys all in close proximity seems like it'd be much more of a challenge then any other genre or sports game. I feel in past Maddens and maybe even gen4 devs have cut corners by linking players together rather having them think or execute on their own which results in unrealistic or scripted outcomes. Just thinking about the calculations our systems have to make in one play of football is insane to me. All that while also looking amazing graphically just seems like a great big challenge that Ea has fell short of consistently recently. Edit: I loved hearing him talking about mastering the game will increase longevity, but the you have to "feel it" comment made me cringe. So sick of hearing that from EA.

Not to beat a dead horse here, but this has been accomplished on other football games by other company's on inferior hardware. Just saying...

# 97 Cowboy008 @ 10/18/13 03:50 PM

When ever they decide to do the True step reveal if it doesn't blow me away then I'm only going to be getting NBA 2K14 for my PS4.

# 98 Gjordan @ 10/18/13 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowboy008


	When ever they decide to do the True step reveal if it doesn't blow me away then I'm only going to be getting NBA 2K14 for my PS4.

Plan on just getting NBA2K14.......I couldn't resist. Lol

# 99 chris luva luva @ 10/18/13 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiro1


	My point was programming 11 people to work together against another 11 group of guys all in close proximity* seems like it'd be much more of a challenge then any other genre or sports game.*

Sir, you're simply regurgitating something you've heard somewhere else. Unless you can break this down factually, take that garbage elsewhere. As others have pointed out, there are games current-gen and next-gen that are doing way more.

# 100 BrianFifaFan @ 10/18/13 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Afrikan


	very curious to see how this new momentum mechanic will be like in the game.. I just worry about the animations that will go along with it. will they look like this? or will there be missing steps.

Perfect example to bring up. PES was notorious for holding on to it's antiquated locomotion. They had to finally bite the bullet and scrap it. As much as I love Fifa, this is something that they haven't mastered to this level. I love how they are touting True Step, but smooth UGLY animations are STILL ugly. As much as some guys harp on equipment and tat's, this is my deal breaker. I can't play Fifa or NBA2k then not to notice that Madden has terribly unrealistic and down right cartoonish player movement. That,and the lack of any type of "signature" animations, (something even Fifa lacks) and it's just immersion blown..... They can have all the pretty grass and shiny helmets they want. This game's player movement is just totally last, last-gen. About the level that Konami finally decided needed an entire overhaul....... Come on, EA.....

P.S. It is worth noting that this is a "current gen" game!

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