NBA 2K13 News Post

NBA 2K13: How Signature Skills Have Changed the Game

02:55 PM - September 11, 2012 by RaychelSnr

Recently the guys at 2K revealed all 31 Signature Skills found in NBA 2K13 and their descriptions. There were some who were pessimistic about how these skills would affect gameplay, but after having learned the details, I for one am even more excited about their inclusion in 2K13 than I was prior.

The Signature Skills concept has been done before in other sports games such as All-Pro Football 2K8, but the idea lends itself so seamlessly to the basketball genre that it can be a huge evolutionary step in how we play basketball games going forward.

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# 41 Po Pimp @ 09/12/12 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by youALREADYknow


	Again, false conclusion reached. Signature Skills are the ABILITY to perform in a certain way, not the LIKELIHOOD or TENDENCY to perform in that way. A select few of the Skills have animations associated with them that will change how the player plays (Chase Down Block for example) but most of them are not going to change how that player plays but instead how well they perform or their teammates perform in a few situations.

I thought with a sig skill, such as a chase down block, it triggers a certain boost (in the right situation) to the players who have that skill? For example, in theory, Dwight Howard COULD chase down block, but he may be too slow to catch up to someone on the break. Derrick Rose COULD be capable, but his block rating isn't high enough to block shots at such a high clip. A player like LeBron would see a slight increase to his speed (and he's already fast) plus a slight increase to his block rating, enabling his ability to chase down.

Of course, I could be wrong.

P.S. Ironically, I believe Derrick Rose actually averaged about as many blocks as LeBron last season, if not, the season before.

# 42 RyanFitzmagic @ 09/12/12 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by youALREADYknow


	Again, false conclusion reached. Signature Skills are the ABILITY to perform in a certain way, not the LIKELIHOOD or TENDENCY to perform in that way. A select few of the Skills have animations associated with them that will change how the player plays (Chase Down Block for example) but most of them are not going to change how that player plays but instead how well they perform or their teammates perform in a few situations.

But yet 2K is advertising Signature Skills as "REALISM REALISM MORE REALISM!"

# 43 da ThRONe @ 09/12/12 02:38 PM

I think it's pretty simple and make sense. For example ratings tell the game a player is a good shooter. Tendencies tell the game a player should look to shoot from the corner more than any where else. And now Sig Skills tell the game that said player with this skill is more accurate (when all criteria is met) shooting from the corner than players with out the skill. So you see how all three work together(are is suppose to) to get more accurate gameplay.

So if James Jones is a better shooter than Kawhi Leonard and both have the sig skill of corner specialist. Jones would be more accurate than Leonard because his ratings say he's better. Just like I'm sure all erasers aren't created equal etc.

# 44 RyanFitzmagic @ 09/12/12 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by da ThRONe


	I think it's pretty simple and make sense. For example ratings tell the game a player is a good shooter. Tendencies tell the game a player should look to shoot from the corner more than any where else. And now Sig Skills tell the game that said player with this skill is more accurate (when all criteria is met) shooting from the corner than players with out the skill. So you see how all three work together(are is suppose to) to get more accurate gameplay. So if James Jones is a better shooter than Kawhi Leonard and both have the sig skill of corner specialist. Jones would be more accurate than Leonard because his ratings say he's better. Just like I'm sure all erasers aren't created equal etc.

I'm pretty sure you just described 2K12's hotspots.

# 45 da ThRONe @ 09/12/12 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanFitzmagic


	I'm pretty sure you just described 2K12's hotspots.

Ok even if that's true(I have to admit I wasn't even aware of hotspots in 2K

) are there hotspots for steals, blocks, iso-moves, loose balls, outlet passing, clutch baskets, etc?

# 46 RyanFitzmagic @ 09/12/12 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by da ThRONe


	Ok even if that's true(I have to admit I wasn't even aware of hotspots in 2K) are there hotspots for steals, blocks, iso-moves, loose balls, outlet passing, clutch baskets, etc?

"Hotspots" wouldn't apply to those things at all. Ratings, however, would, and do for all of those things except outlet passing (and only because 2K hadn't yet introduced an "Outlet Pass" rating).

# 47 da ThRONe @ 09/12/12 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanFitzmagic


	"Hotspots" wouldn't apply to those things at all. Ratings, however, would, and do for all of those things except outlet passing (and only because 2K hadn't yet introduced an "Outlet Pass" rating).

Clearly it's easier for them to add boost to ratings in certain situations than creating and fine tuning 20+ new ratings. When if done right it can have pretty much the same impact. These games only have so much space per disc, man power, and resources from one year to the next. If they can create a "shortcut" that works well I support it 100%(just not the 5 per player limit).

# 48 RyanFitzmagic @ 09/12/12 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by da ThRONe


	Clearly it's easier for them to add boost to ratings in certain situations than creating and fine tuning 20+ new ratings. When if done right it can have pretty much the same impact. These games only have so much space per disc, man power, and resources from one year to the next. If they can create a "shortcut" that works well I support it 100%(just not the 5 per player limit).

For instance, if a person is facing Oklahoma City and it’s a close game in the fourth quarter, it would behoove them to place a Lock-Down Defender on Durant to counter his signature Closer ability.

Explain to me how this didn't apply in every other 2K game, with the adjustment being: Place your best defender (best physical matchup + highest Defensive Awareness) on the other team's best closer (best shooter/finisher).

2K and/or its supporters acting like Signature Skills was the only way to make this necessary or imperative is just silly.

# 49 Guard-ian @ 09/12/12 04:41 PM

Great read, thanks for the article... It got me a little hyped to be honest...
If everything plays out in 2k13 as described is gonna be amazing, if not... Well, we will see.

Cheers! ;-)

# 50 da ThRONe @ 09/12/12 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanFitzmagic


	For instance, if a person is facing Oklahoma City and it�s a close game in the fourth quarter, it would behoove them to place a Lock-Down Defender on Durant to counter his signature Closer ability. Explain to me how this didn't apply in every other 2K game, with the adjustment being: Place your best defender (best physical matchup + highest Defensive Awareness) on the other team's best closer (best shooter/finisher). 2K and/or its supporters acting like Signature Skills was the only way to make this necessary or imperative is just silly.

I don't make the game so I'm incapable of explaining why the developers thought this was the best course of action. However A) I never said this was the only way to represent intangibles and situational basketball merely that it has merit and B) I assume that the developer felt this was the most efficient way to represent certain intangibles and situational basketball available to them as of now.

# 51 youALREADYknow @ 09/12/12 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by da ThRONe


	I don't make the game so I'm incapable of explaining why the developers thought this was the best course of action. However A) I never said this was the only way to represent intangibles and situational basketball merely that it has merit and B) I assume that the developer felt this was the most efficient way to represent certain intangibles and situational basketball available to them as of now.

Very logical and sound observations. It's far from the best way IMO as I've stated elsewhere, but it's also not the worst way to have done this and it could be used as a building block down the road as long as they don't get too full of themselves because casual gamers love the implementation.

At the end of the day, the game should end up having more depth with these Skills in than it would have been if a few of these distinct areas were left unchanged from 2K12. I can learn to ignore the few Skills that are redundant and/or completely unnecessary as long as the others add value.

# 52 Po Pimp @ 09/12/12 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanFitzmagic


	I'm pretty sure you just described 2K12's hotspots.

I'm pretty sure hotspots only applied to where players liked to set up. If I have someone on my team rated 80 in 3pters, yet their hotspot suggest they like to shoot the corner 3s, I'm pretty sure they would be able to hit from the top of the key with regularity as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanFitzmagic


	For instance, if a person is facing Oklahoma City and it�s a close game in the fourth quarter, it would behoove them to place a Lock-Down Defender on Durant to counter his signature Closer ability. Explain to me how this didn't apply in every other 2K game, with the adjustment being: Place your best defender (best physical matchup + highest Defensive Awareness) on the other team's best closer (best shooter/finisher). 2K and/or its supporters acting like Signature Skills was the only way to make this necessary or imperative is just silly.

True YOU may think to do that, but would the AI? I'm hoping that these sig skills would actually factor into how the AI approaches the game.

# 53 youALREADYknow @ 09/12/12 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Po Pimp


	I'm pretty sure hotspots only applied to where players liked to set up. If I have someone on my team rated 80 in 3pters, yet their hotspot suggest they like to shoot the corner 3s, I'm pretty sure they would be able to hit from the top of the key with regularity as well.

Hot Spots dictated where a player shot from.
Hot Zones dictated how well the player shot (Scorching/Hot/Neutral/Cold) from that location.

The Corner Specialist Skill was the worst offender as far as useless and redundancy were concerned. This was one of the easiest to duplicate in 2K12 and we could have done it with real-world data so that a player who may have been Hot in the Right corner, but Neutral/Cold from the Left corner would have that accurately portrayed.

It's not worth scrapping the entire list of Signature Skills because a couple of them were redundant, but hopefully 2K can take an honest look at the redundancy and uselessness of a few of these Skills and remove them for 2K14 without putting their own pride first.

# 54 RyanFitzmagic @ 09/12/12 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Po Pimp


	True YOU may think to do that, but would the AI? I'm hoping that these sig skills would actually factor into how the AI approaches the game.

Somehow, I doubt it. The article only spoke of the user making these types of changes.

And what can a "Lockdown Defender" signature skill do to tell the AI who to utilize more than a high "On-Ball Defense" rating can?

# 55 jtmoneyb4u @ 09/12/12 05:09 PM

wonder what brian scalibrine skill gonna be lol the white mamba

# 56 youALREADYknow @ 09/12/12 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Po Pimp


	True YOU may think to do that, but would the AI? I'm hoping that these sig skills would actually factor into how the AI approaches the game.

If there is an AI change to place a player with the Lockdown Defender Skill on the opponent's best Scorer, then that same change could have been done using the On-Ball Defense and Quickness using any of the past few 2K games. The two don't really go hand-in-hand.

Any AI changes made to accommodate a Skill don't make the Skill worthwhile. It just means that the Skill was the method chosen to represent the change instead of them using their existing tools (Attributes/Tendencies/Coach Profiles).

My biggest fear with the Signature Skills has already sort of come true. The fear is that people will praise Skills for changes that have absolutely nothing to do with the actual implementation of the Signature Skill. That could give 2K the response they need to think this was indeed a great implementation instead of really looking at how to continue to improve the underlying areas that need more help.

Skills are responsible for a player's impact or effectiveness, not how they play.

# 57 Po Pimp @ 09/12/12 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by youALREADYknow


	Hot Spots dictated where a player shot from. Hot Zones dictated how well the player shot (Scorching/Hot/Neutral/Cold) from that location. The Corner Specialist Skill was the worst offender as far as useless and redundancy were concerned. This was one of the easiest to duplicate in 2K12 and we could have done it with real-world data so that a player who may have been Hot in the Right corner, but Neutral/Cold from the Left corner would have that accurately portrayed. It's not worth scrapping the entire list of Signature Skills because a couple of them were redundant, but hopefully 2K can take an honest look at the redundancy and uselessness of a few of these Skills and remove them for 2K14 without putting their own pride first.

What about the alley-ooper? True, every alley-ooper isn't a dimer, but every dimer should be able to throw oops.

# 58 da ThRONe @ 09/12/12 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Po Pimp


	I'm pretty sure hotspots only applied to where players liked to set up. If I have someone on my team rated 80 in 3pters, yet their hotspot suggest they like to shoot the corner 3s, I'm pretty sure they would be able to hit from the top of the key with regularity as well. True YOU may think to do that, but would the AI? I'm hoping that these sig skills would actually factor into how the AI approaches the game.

Tendencies are what's suppose to control AI. Which doesn't make sig skill any less useful IMO. Just because a player wants to aggressive in the passing lanes doesn't mean he has great timing and should get beat a lot trying to steal passes.

# 59 ZB9 @ 09/12/12 05:56 PM

I wonder if every player has at least one sig skill

I would guess no

# 60 rjohns23 @ 09/12/12 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanFitzmagic


	For instance, if a person is facing Oklahoma City and it�s a close game in the fourth quarter, it would behoove them to place a Lock-Down Defender on Durant to counter his signature Closer ability. Explain to me how this didn't apply in every other 2K game, with the adjustment being: Place your best defender (best physical matchup + highest Defensive Awareness) on the other team's best closer (best shooter/finisher). 2K and/or its supporters acting like Signature Skills was the only way to make this necessary or imperative is just silly.

Yea man, I'm with you on this logic. This was the same thing I was thinking when those signature skills were introduced. I haven't read through what everyone else is saying, but it seems to me that some of this skills are already in 2k12, especially since we can alter everything about player from ratings to tendencies.

I think it is a good start but it will probably won't be until 2k14 that the whole aspect of signature skills are fined-tuned.

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