Madden NFL 13 News Post

End of Console Generations is Not an Excuse for No Innovation

06:41 PM - April 10, 2012 by RaychelSnr

"Innovations will come with the new consoles" has become a popular defense for stale franchises like Madden NFL and NCAA Football, as they continue to improve in marginal and incremental ways instead of making sweeping changes or true innovations during the Xbox 360's and Playstation 3's final hours.

Yet Madden's history, spanning over 20 years and four generations of consoles, suggests that the opposite of "incremental change" should be happening right now.

In all previous console generations, the Madden NFL series reached its creative peak just as veteran systems neared their retirement.

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Member Comments

# 21 mestevo @ 04/11/12 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueNGold


	Yeah, because what's really been holding the series back is graphics.

You prove my point, thanks. Another 'they improved something that doesn't count'. Would you say the same if I posted the free agency bidding screen, pictures of the improved presentation, team runout, the video that lists all the other franchise improvements, etc?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

# 22 mcmax3000 @ 04/11/12 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wat3


	Is Madden 13 the last Madden before the license expires? I don't want to hear " they're just going to extend" because that's not what I'm asking.

From what I was able to find, it goes through 2013, meaning that Madden 14 would be the last game under the current deal...

But yes, they're likely just going to extend.

# 23 Dazraz @ 04/11/12 10:32 AM

EA typically strip a game down to it's bare bones whenever a new console is released. I remember their PGA game on the PS1 being released with 2 measly courses. Madden 06 on the 360 is yet another example. To say that they have great big plans for the next generation of consoles when they're not even getting the best out of this generation is utter nonsense.
EA think that it's enough just to make the game look good in static screenshots. Yes there is an argument that any new piece of technology brings with it some obstacles that may have to be overcome before developers can get the best out of them, but this argument can only go so far & certainly doesn't justify some of the poor quality games we have been given.
No doubt when Madden is released on the next gen console we can expect a stripped down Franchise Mode & zero presentation with bugged gameplay. Oh well at least the commentary can't get any worse.

# 24 PaleVermilion @ 04/11/12 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mestevo


	You prove my point, thanks. Another 'they improved something that doesn't count'. Would you say the same if I posted the free agency bidding screen, pictures of the improved presentation, team runout, the video that lists all the other franchise improvements, etc? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I would personally say the biggest thing that they suck at is the core gameplay. You know, the part that keeps people playing it long term. A game can look all pretty, but if the core gameplay sucks what does it matter? And for all their innovation with presentation, NFL2k5 still blows them out of the water. But at least I can see my team running out of the tunnel.

Sent from my 1975 typewriter using Telekinesis

# 25 BlueNGold @ 04/11/12 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mestevo


	You prove my point, thanks. Another 'they improved something that doesn't count'. Would you say the same if I posted the free agency bidding screen, pictures of the improved presentation, team runout, the video that lists all the other franchise improvements, etc? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Sorry, when did I say graphics don't count? I must have missed that. Can you show me?

My point is the graphics are great and all but there's a reason Madden is in the situation it's in right now and looked at in the light it's looked at right now. I'll give you a hint: it's not the great graphics.

I'm pretty sure 9/10 people here (if not 10/10) would trade where the graphics are at now for where the gameplay is at now in a heartbeat.

# 26 mestevo @ 04/11/12 11:00 AM

Just more of the same, as if EA finds millions of new customers every year (they dont), and invoking the sacred 2k5 (again, will be happy when the sticky rules are finally enforced again). You'd think the gameplay has been the same since Madden 06 by many of the posts here, of course many probably consider Madden a roster update and little more every year which is probably the least genuine statement anyone can make.

If we get half as many improvements to 13 as we saw in 12, many here will be pretty happy - but we have no idea what they've done with 13 yet, but this gen has been written off, nothing to see here.

I would have expected the "can you be objective..." thread to come from a staff member and this thread created by one of the many jaded who post here, not the other way around.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

# 27 bigsmallwood @ 04/11/12 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mestevo


	Just more of the same, as if EA finds millions of new customers every year (they dont), and invoking the sacred 2k5 (again, will be happy when the sticky rules are finally enforced again). You'd think the gameplay has been the same since Madden 06 by many of the posts here, of course many probably consider Madden a roster update and little more every year which is probably the least genuine statement anyone can make. If we get half as many improvements to 13 as we saw in 12, many here will be pretty happy - but we have no idea what they've done with 13 yet, but this gen has been written off, nothing to see here. I would have expected the "can you be objective..." thread to come from a staff member and this thread created by one of the many jaded who post here, not the other way around. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Your commentary is slightly belittling to members who are not jaded but rather are tired of the same excuses year after year. You should understand that outside of sales, Madden this gen has done virtually nothing to be successful as a franchise. That's why people mention 2K5 or NBA 2K11, FIFA, The Show etc. Those games and their companies earn our $65 almost every year. People respect the efforts they put into their product. Madden used to do the same, but now with no competition, we are 8 games into next gen with basic features and core gameplay still broken.

# 28 bigsmallwood @ 04/11/12 12:33 PM

The back of the Madden 95 box is better than anything we have been given recently.

# 29 roadman @ 04/11/12 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigsmallwood


	Your commentary is slightly belittling to members who are not jaded but rather are tired of the same excuses year after year. You should understand that outside of sales, Madden this gen has done virtually nothing to be successful as a franchise. That's why people mention 2K5 or NBA 2K11, FIFA, The Show etc. Those games and their companies earn our $65 almost every year. People respect the efforts they put into their product. Madden used to do the same, but now with no competition, we are 8 games into next gen with basic features and core gameplay still broken.

I agree with this, but I feel strongly that 13 will be turning the corner. Game play video on GT TV for NCAA is Friday morning at 1:00 am.

NCAA and Madden usually mirror each other with game play, but we'll see.

All I'm saying is that I'm cautiously optimistic for 13. If folks want to keep going back over history, that's fine, but I'm trying to look forward. And I understand folks that keep looking back.

# 30 bigsmallwood @ 04/11/12 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadman


	I agree with this, but I feel strongly that 13 will be turning the corner. Game play video on GT TV for NCAA is Friday morning at 1:00 am. NCAA and Madden usually mirror each other with game play, but we'll see. All I'm saying is that I'm cautiously optimistic for 13. If folks want to keep going back over history, that's fine, but I'm trying to look forward. And I understand folks that keep looking back.

I agree with all that you have just said. I want to move forward. I too am hoping that the new Madden is a huge step in the right direction.

# 31 Smoke6 @ 04/11/12 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigsmallwood


	Your commentary is slightly belittling to members who are not jaded but rather are tired of the same excuses year after year. You should understand that outside of sales, Madden this gen has done virtually nothing to be successful as a franchise. That's why people mention 2K5 or NBA 2K11, FIFA, The Show etc. Those games and their companies earn our $65 almost every year. People respect the efforts they put into their product. Madden used to do the same, but now with no competition, we are 8 games into next gen with basic features and core gameplay still broken.

I'd have to piggy back on this as the guy seems to be in another realm or is just satisfied too easily. Maybe he doesnt play anything outside of madden in which he can graciously explain why in the world are we just now getting features ThAT ARE AND HAVE BEEN A PART OF THE GAME FOR YEARS?

Its easy to counter nitpick with stuff know one really cares about, I would gladly trade in the GFX for gameplay anyday of the week, but the fact remains that there are games out there that DO IT ALL and yet EA keeps coming with excuse after excuse after excuse.

Now you wanna play the :"Sticky rules card" so people can be silent on the fact that for the past 7 maddens this gen, we have gotten nothing but minor tweaks and fixes.

But be kind and post stuff that makes the gameplay better than what it is so we can all stop complaining!

# 32 Gotmadskillzson @ 04/11/12 01:34 PM

FYI..........The sitcky rules is enforced on OS year round in ALL forums. Just because somebody doesn't agree with you or don't like a game as much as you do, it don't mean a person should be banned or a thread should get locked.

Nothing in this thread violates the TOS.

You like graphics and presentation of run outs...........other people prefer game play.

The world goes on.

# 33 RGiles36 @ 04/11/12 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TreyIM2


	I really don't think Madden needs new innovations because that's what they've been trying to do for far too long with things like the Vision Cone, a repetitive football radio show, that blocking crap they tried to pull, etc. Hit stick was necessary with the advent of dual joysticks because it made no sense not to utilize the extra stick so console control innovation forced that one, so to speak. I think EA needs to work on completing the basic, core game of football, full circle, first. Things like gang tackling and multiple hit tackles/add on tackling is not an innovation, per se. THAT IS APART OF THE BASIC, CORE GAME OF FOOTBALL, period. We need more of that and the lil things that make football, football more than grandiose not quite needed right now 'innovations' because it almost makes no sense how they don't have those things down pat , yet.

Agreed. The gameplay needs enhancements and while innovation is welcome to the core game modes, generally speaking, innovation is not exactly what Madden has been missing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mestevo


	Just more of the same, as if EA finds millions of new customers every year (they dont), and invoking the sacred 2k5 (again, will be happy when the sticky rules are finally enforced again). You'd think the gameplay has been the same since Madden 06 by many of the posts here, of course many probably consider Madden a roster update and little more every year which is probably the least genuine statement anyone can make.

Agree with this too. That's not to suggest that people should be pleased or satisfied with the gameplay -- I'm not. But the notion that the gameplay hasn't improved at all over the past three years is, umm, ill-informed.

# 34 Smoke6 @ 04/11/12 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mestevo


	Just more of the same, as if EA finds millions of new customers every year (they dont), and invoking the sacred 2k5 (again, will be happy when the sticky rules are finally enforced again). You'd think the gameplay has been the same since Madden 06 by many of the posts here, of course many probably consider Madden a roster update and little more every year which is probably the least genuine statement anyone can make. If we get half as many improvements to 13 as we saw in 12, many here will be pretty happy - but we have no idea what they've done with 13 yet, but this gen has been written off, nothing to see here. I would have expected the "can you be objective..." thread to come from a staff member and this thread created by one of the many jaded who post here, not the other way around. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Let me help you out and you tell me if you are happy with these results...

Money plays?

Morphing players still?

Progression and franchise issues?

Glitches and bugs from past maddens?

Missing features from the previous to past maddens that some affected game play?

Speed has been the only stat to really matter?

No D/O line interaction?

No DB/WR jostling or fighting for the ball before and after a catch?

DBs not capable of dropping one handing interceptions while tackled or engaged in this animation?

NO PENALTIES!!! Outside of face mask, offsides, delay of game, and roughing the passer with your occasional QB throwing while past the LOS?

No foot planting, players still seem to ice skate and change direction like the wind?

DB's mirror the WR's routes or sometimes run them for them?

Pick your poison bro, I can go on for quite a while and so can everyone else, and I am sure the bad outweighs the good and its been like this for the past 7yrs.

So give me or anyone else a reason why we shouldnt feel the way we do about madden!

# 35 m1ke_nyc @ 04/11/12 02:16 PM

Has the gameplay improved over the past couple years yes, but lets be honest here the gameplay is below average. When double hit tackles is a selling point for Madden 12 and NCAAF 12 for that matter we have a problem.

# 36 Smoke6 @ 04/11/12 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgiles36


	Agreed. The gameplay needs enhancements and while innovation is welcome to the core game modes, generally speaking, innovation is not exactly what Madden has been missing. Agree with this too. That's not to suggest that people should be pleased or satisfied with the gameplay -- I'm not. But the notion that the gameplay hasn't improved at all over the past three years is, umm, ill-informed.

Let do some simple math going forward here...

This gen started 7yrs ago, we got 5yrs or so of stale to mediocre gameplay and featureless modes from them.

2 out of them 7yrs we have seen some improvement, but not enough to swing madden back into that must have game it used to be.

So tell me how does 2yrs outshine the past 5 before it this gen when we are still short or features from back in 1995 let alone Madden and 2k5?

We still are having legacy issues and for some odd reason , some data software is telling them what we do and dont do. Case in point a whole new change to the control of the pre play controls due to their software that knows all and sees all.

# 37 mestevo @ 04/11/12 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoke6


	Let me help you out and you tell me if you are happy with these results... Money plays? Morphing players still? Progression and franchise issues? Glitches and bugs from past maddens? Missing features from the previous to past maddens that some affected game play? Speed has been the only stat to really matter? No D/O line interaction? No DB/WR jostling or fighting for the ball before and after a catch? DBs not capable of dropping one handing interceptions while tackled or engaged in this animation? NO PENALTIES!!! Outside of face mask, offsides, delay of game, and roughing the passer with your occasional QB throwing while past the LOS? No foot planting, players still seem to ice skate and change direction like the wind? DB's mirror the WR's routes or sometimes run them for them? Pick your poison bro, I can go on for quite a while and so can everyone else, and I am sure the bad outweighs the good and its been like this for the past 7yrs. So give me or anyone else a reason why we shouldnt feel the way we do about madden!

I defer to roadman's post about looking forward. They've continued to improve things, and I don't have crazy expectations that I am going to all but need to take an ice bath after playing a game of Madden so I am generally not disappointed with the title (aside from the multi-year franchise stagnation that ended last year). As long as that improvement continues, I'll continue to buy their products. They add something and people complain because they wanted something else. They add another thing and it somehow doesn't count because it was in a previous game (as if a simple copy and paste was all that was needed years later). They are arguments just not worth having.

Despite all of that, this is the first year I played a ton more NCAA, more than any other year, because of online dynasty. It even jumped up to my most # of days played list on 360voice: http://360voice.gamerdna.com/tag/meStevo Only recently have I started playing Madden more this time around, rather than going back and forth like I have every year since trying NCAA in 2005 and getting hooked (I don't even watch college football). I'm not even sure Madden can win me back with an equally as engaging OD because of things like roster turnover and coaching progression via the carousel and at the pro level neither of those processes are nearly as dynamic/dramatic. That's a discussion for another thread though.

I respect many of your opinions, it's just those who rail against EA just kinda of blur together into 2-3 posters, saying the same/similar things over and over, and this time of year when we have so little to go on it just gets especially loud and frustrating to even discuss things with that kind of mentality.

I apologize if I come across as an elitist pro-EA douche, in the end I guess I just have lower expectations than many, I'm not afraid to admit that.

# 38 RGiles36 @ 04/11/12 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoke6


	So tell me how does 2yrs outshine the past 5 before it this gen when we are still short or features from back in 1995 let alone Madden and 2k5?

Coincidently, Madden '95 was my very first Madden. Maybe my memory doesn't serve me correctly: what features were in M95 that we don't have (and need) in 2012?

Look man, I'm completely over the first five years of this generation. If you want to continue to harp on it and hold EA accountable, by all means, have at it. I'm of the belief that leads to more personal frustration than it does anything else, but I digress.

# 39 bigsmallwood @ 04/11/12 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgiles36


	Coincidently, Madden '95 was my very first Madden. Maybe my memory doesn't serve me correctly: what features were in M95 that we don't have (and need) in 2012? Look man, I'm completely over the first five years of this generation. If you want to continue to harp on it and hold EA accountable, by all means, have at it. I'm of the belief that leads to more personal frustration than it does anything else, but I digress.

Those of us who are moving forward will do so. I'm not against anybody who wants to speak up about Madden past or present, as long as they are not bashing. Most people are at least trying to be constructive and that is their choice. In another week we will know what Madden 13 is going to be all about.

# 40 Smoke6 @ 04/11/12 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgiles36


	Coincidently, Madden '95 was my very first Madden. Maybe my memory doesn't serve me correctly: what features were in M95 that we don't have (and need) in 2012? Look man, I'm completely over the first five years of this generation. If you want to continue to harp on it and hold EA accountable, by all means, have at it. I'm of the belief that leads to more personal frustration than it does anything else, but I digress.

it even sounds way better than any madden we have received this gen just from the description on the back. To tell you the truth, just reading had me immersed and now I wanna go grab me a genesis from somewhere!

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