NBA Elite 11 News Post

NBA Elite 11 Video: Real AI

08:07 PM - August 25, 2010 by blackflash83

This video explains what Real AI will bring to the table in NBA Elite 11.

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NBA Elite 11 Videos

Member Comments

# 41 BlAcK_OpS @ 08/26/10 12:21 AM

Can't wait for the demo! Any idea if the demo will release in early August or at the end?

# 42 bmgoff11 @ 08/26/10 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jano


	Lol I already know it can't be as bad as that game we would be able to see the signs already. That game looked horrible around E3 time, I still remember how bad the jumpers were and how ugly the dribbling was. This game looks nothing like that piece of trash. I think EA is just trying to stick to there guns this year which is the gameplay. We should be getting a treat with the demo though definitely won't be a barebones one according the devs. Hopefully it allows us to play a full game like the madden demo..

yeah it should because it is a showcase for ur create player for the draft when the game comes out

# 43 bmgoff11 @ 08/26/10 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshPrince22


	so it's not an "animation," it's just a "recording" that plays back in the proper context. fine. it makes no difference to me whether some guy wearing a mo-cap suit is responsible or whether some canned joystick movements are responsible. semantics aside, how is the "recording" any different in presentation to the gamer than a typical "animation" (namely the ones in other games which can also be broken and have tendencies/AI to help the CPU adapt)? overall, i'm just trying to figure out the "innovative" part for the experience of the gamer but it's cool to hear it's not a two-man thing. it would've been nice to see durant's move in a different context than the defender jobbing on his pumpfake though

try thinking about it this way when u play bball u do certain things depending on where u are on the court . u have ur go to move but u change what u do depending on what the defense is doing against u. so u know what u want to do but u can change out of it at anytime same thing they are trying to do this year. to make the game feel like ur playing against someone and not the cpu/

# 44 mlp111 @ 08/26/10 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rEAnimator


	You're right, I can see where you're coming from now. In essence, from your perspective as a player, they may as well be animations. The real innovation from a gameplay standpoint is in the system that detects the context in the game and matches it to the context in a recording. From a technical standpoint though, mocapping these sequences as animations would be impossible both from a money standpoint and a memory standpoint. It is financially prohibitive to fly out every NBA star to do massive amounts of moves in all possible situations. And from a memory standpoint it is absolutely impossible to fit that much animation on current generation consoles. By recording inputs, we can record 100 times more data for all the contexts needed, and do that for 1000 times more players than if it was animation. We can also get people to mimic real life player tendencies a lot easier by using the joystick, and in the case of Kevin Durant, get the real life players to do it. Hopefully that clears things up.

nothing is going to clear up my doubts except for "5-ON-5 GAMEPLAY, recorded animations or whatever you guys choose to call it, just need to see some gameplay, i was feeling everything the trailer was saying and then at 1:00-1:17 or so they showed gameplay and everything i heard fell crashing to the ground, so i need video evidences not word of mouth he say or she say, or will just have to wait until the demo

# 45 ehh @ 08/26/10 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rEAnimator


	From a technical standpoint though, mocapping these sequences as animations would be impossible both from a money standpoint and a memory standpoint. It is financially prohibitive to fly out every NBA star to do massive amounts of moves in all possible situations. And from a memory standpoint it is absolutely impossible to fit that much animation on current generation consoles. By recording inputs, we can record 100 times more data for all the contexts needed, and do that for 1000 times more players than if it was animation. We can also get people to mimic real life player tendencies a lot easier by using the joystick, and in the case of Kevin Durant, get the real life players to do it.

Thanks for spending some time to come in here and explain this a little more.

This quoted part is where I'm still a little lost. Since everything you said is true about resource limitations, what is the source for all these recordings? Obviously you had KD up as the coverboy to record his stuff but what about everyone else in the league? Are you guys going through game footage, scouting reports, etc? So will you have some guys in the lab watch Melo or LeBron game tape and then do their best to mimic their game with the sticks in Elite and record that data? Based on what you're saying I think that's how it'll work.

Just curious as to how this will be implemented across the board.

# 46 HMcCoy @ 08/26/10 01:03 AM

I love the concept. Thats exactly how I try to play...signature sequences of moves guys actually do, from the correct spots on the floor.

Looking forward to this...

# 47 magicman32 @ 08/26/10 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerseySuave4


	why would they ever put that sequence from 1:09-1:16 in this video? Usually in a video that you're putting together to hype up your game you won't put something so blatantly unrealistic or screwed up in there. The guy does a standing dunk from the nearly the top of the key on the right side. If he can do that then imagine what he could do in a dunk contest. Forget dunking from behind the free throw line, that guy would be doing it behind the 3 point line. I just hafta shake my head at this video because i dont understand why they would put things in their video. That were so ugly. I'd rather real AI use the animations, physics and movement that the human players have to use to play the game instead of having stuff scripted.

yeah. Live has had a problem with momentum and weight for a while in their games. Some of their animations for certain players are off. Like they are superhuman.

They need to improve on this big time.

# 48 PVarck31 @ 08/26/10 01:31 AM

I get it now. It makes sense. Lets just hope it works well. I still want to see where they are on physics though.

Oh and rEAanimator, or stepsix, could you give us an update on the sliding problem? As someone mentioned there was an issue where the foot planting software was fighting the physics.

# 49 stepsix @ 08/26/10 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ehh


	Thanks for spending some time to come in here and explain this a little more. This quoted part is where I'm still a little lost. Since everything you said is true about resource limitations, what is the source for all these recordings? Obviously you had KD up as the coverboy to record his stuff but what about everyone else in the league? Are you guys going through game footage, scouting reports, etc? So will you have some guys in the lab watch Melo or LeBron game tape and then do their best to mimic their game with the sticks in Elite and record that data? Based on what you're saying I think that's how it'll work. Just curious as to how this will be implemented across the board.

That's exactly how we do it - we need base layers of sequences to cover all game situations, and then to provide differentiation for players that have distinctive styles, we study tape and record specific sequences from the areas on the court that they typically get the ball in. You can see how this would then work with our play system...if a play has Melo coming off of a screen for an iso on the wing, we would then record Melo specific sequences from that position.

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaeljordanjr


	stepsix answered my concern about whether its dynamic enough to change the script. Because I can foresee people memorizing the chained moves and anticipating them if the A.i. player uses it over and over. I think Real AI is a great addition to basketball games and one that is long over due. Instead of predictable, generic AI behavior we get signature and dynamic behavior. Despite the unrealistic dunk in the video, Elite is shaping up nicely. Now for some HD 5 on 5 CPU vs CPU footage. PLEASE - No recording a random guy playing the game, if you're recording a user player make sure its someone who KNOWS the controls and the game. Unlike the other NBA game's user footage where the guys were running around like headless chickens not knowing anything, I'd like Elite videos to look like actual basketball players playing basketball.

Not to worry - we've been practicing all year with the controls - any sequences that go in get reviewed and pulled if they don't look right.

# 50 Jano @ 08/26/10 02:09 AM

Now thats great to hear stepsix this is exactly what this series needed should add a much needed facelift for the AI.

Should make playing against the AI a lot more fun and definitely make each game feel different.

Does this system apply to the off ball players too? So will guys like Ray Allen be hangin out on the perimeter? And what about the perimeter shooting big men like Troy Murphy?

# 51 TUSS11 @ 08/26/10 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stepsix


	That's exactly how we do it - we need base layers of sequences to cover all game situations, and then to provide differentiation for players that have distinctive styles, we study tape and record specific sequences from the areas on the court that they typically get the ball in. You can see how this would then work with our play system...if a play has Melo coming off of a screen for an iso on the wing, we would then record Melo specific sequences from that position. Not to worry - we've been practicing all year with the controls - any sequences that go in get reviewed and pulled if they don't look right.

How difficult is it to predict what Melo would do in this situation? Say he starts a jab --> pump-fake --> jab --> shoot combination and I've played the game enough to predict that this particular sequence will end with a shot. Will he diverge from the sequence and attack off the dribble instead of shooting if he sees I'm playing him too tight? Not by me jumping or getting out of position, but by me simply applying too much pressure?

I'm just afraid that by recognizing the sequence I'll be able to play up on him and time the block because I saw it coming.

# 52 Jano @ 08/26/10 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TUSS11


	How difficult is it to predict what Melo would do in this situation? Say he starts a jab --> pump-fake --> jab --> shoot combination and I've played the game enough to predict that this particular sequence will end with a shot. Will he diverge from the sequence and attack off the dribble instead of shooting if he sees I'm playing him too tight? Not by me jumping or getting out of position, but by me simply applying too much pressure? I'm just afraid that by recognizing the sequence I'll be able to play up on him and time the block because I saw it coming.

Well the good thing is the system is dynamic so in that situation Melo's other set of moves for tight defense would kick in. And his DNA would tell him whether he would go left, right, etc.

At least that how I think it would work in this system...

# 53 carnalnirvana @ 08/26/10 05:57 AM

is this " real AI" the system mentioned in the ratings thread thats supposed to get the stars to doninate and carry their teams. if it is it will be interesting to see how things play out.

all i want is for the AI to not pass it off if i throw a body on kobe, he should be able to find a shot, not just a good shot IMO there needs to be a strong influence coded in for the best guys to get their 15-20 shots

# 54 theprocess @ 08/26/10 06:18 AM

It al sounds good, I just want to see it put together. What about passing, how will that be worked into the system?

# 55 B-Ball Life @ 08/26/10 06:28 AM

Talk About Signature. Most People(including me to an extent) complain that about lack of sig animations in the Live series. but this could take it to another level. to take what melo or kobe does and give these options to the A.I is awesome.

then to have the A.I use the moves at the most effective time is just what these players do in real life. making it as if the A.I is thinking like an nba player.

i cant wait for oct.5th

# 56 Nephilim @ 08/26/10 06:54 AM

If this works as it should, this is even more important than signature dribbles etc. Players attacking like in real life, using same moves and strategy, well this is how it should be long time ago.

Probably the same thing could be used on defense and team plays (p'n'r, triangle etc.)....

# 57 elprez98 @ 08/26/10 11:34 AM

Not that this is a good or bad thing, but it sounds similar to VIP from the other game, just on a smaller scale. It seems like this could add a bit of variety to the game, however, I'm wondering, does the AI have multiple choices? If Durant is in the corner, I'd hate to play and he ALWAYS pump fakes, drives. I'd like to see him (or any other player for that matter) have a couple of options to choose from, as he does in life.

# 58 NoTiCe_O @ 08/26/10 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elprez98


	Not that this is a good or bad thing, but it sounds similar to VIP from the other game, just on a smaller scale. It seems like this could add a bit of variety to the game, however, I'm wondering, does the AI have multiple choices? If Durant is in the corner, I'd hate to play and he ALWAYS pump fakes, drives. I'd like to see him (or any other player for that matter) have a couple of options to choose from, as he does in life.

I agree with that.

And yea I hope that it doesn't get too repetitive, because although players have certain moves they do in certain situations they don't do it every time, most good players will keep you on your feet and guessing, that's why they are so hard to defend.

# 59 jlbrown143 @ 08/26/10 12:06 PM

Well no dis-respect to reanimator or Stepsix but really fellas don't you think it's about time that we see some proof of what you guys are selling this year, because...it feels like you're trying to hide stuff again, to save sells, and I for one am not buying a thing from you guys untill I am convinced it's worth buying...I have been duped too many times before...so I say to you PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!! no dis-respect intended

# 60 RoyalBoyle78 @ 08/26/10 12:13 PM

Let us get some gameplay vids.

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