Madden NFL 11 News Post

Out of Bounds: The Billion Dollar Elephant in the Room

12:57 PM - August 11, 2010 by RaychelSnr

Tuesday marked the beginning of what many would consider a secular holiday. While there were no trees, candles, or even aluminum poles and feats of strengths, Tuesday marks the beginning of many long, wasted nights filled with cans of downed cokes, missed meals and social engagements. It's an event that has grown so large that economists now chart its impact, which has grown into the billions.

Let's be honest here, you're probably going to buy Madden 11 if you're a football fan -- assuming you haven't already purchased it. I know I'm going to buy Madden 11. It's a cultural moment. A time in which you know anyone and everyone who cares the smallest iota about sports video games will be playing the same game. All other sports games pale in comparison to the type of influence the little football-game-that-could has exerted over the years.

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# 21 Gleebo @ 08/11/10 09:39 PM

"A time in which you know anyone and everyone who cares the smallest iota about sports video games will be playing the same game"

I care, I care by not buying it...

# 22 J_Posse @ 08/12/10 01:21 AM

Very well written article and I can't wait to see more of this level of quality. Now, onto my opinion of the Madden series. Sadly, the exclusivity deal between the NFL and EA Sports really took a lot of my passion about Madden away. I was at one-time a die-hard Maddenite but always enjoyed trying out alternatives. Well, that all ended after 2004, yet I've learned to accept that we won't be seeing any alternative NFL titles in the near future.

I gave Madden 10 a legitimate chance after all the hype and blogs surrounding it's development swept me into believing the series was back on track. Well, I was excited at first but became frustrated that certain areas weren't improve or addressed (running game, animations/locomotion and defensive A.I. logic). I have read that Madden 11 does at least improve two of my complains, but I was led to believe that we would see these improvements last season. So, they've lost a customer for sometime or when competition returns.

# 23 budsticky @ 08/12/10 07:52 AM

This is the first year in many that I haven't bought Madden. I'm just not interested in spending two months on the slider train trying to find a workable game. I have a feeling I'm not the only one jumping off the Madden wagon..just reading the responses here confirms it. It will be interesting to see the sales numbers when they are available. I'm sure it will do well, but I have a feeling you might see lower numbers this year compared to years past.

# 24 RaiderKtulu @ 08/12/10 08:06 AM

The sad thing here is that the moment EA tries to do something innovative, they get blasted for it. Vision cone anyone?

There's this imaginary line between Fun and Realistic that EA is trying to walk... and essentially failing on both sides. It has issues that annoy the SIM crowd, and issues that annoy the casual crowd. But... as has been stated, it's the only NFL game available, so we all buy it and deal with the problems anyway. I prefer Backbreaker on the field, but it's too lacking in other areas that Madden has... so I'm going to be playing both this year.

# 25 Saijahn @ 08/12/10 09:52 AM

would Madden even be as popular now if NFL 2K was still around. I strongly believe 2K would be outselling Madden right now, but we can't go off of if's now. Madden is the only choice of game so the developers can sit on their butts and just collect our money. Madden 11 as someone else said is just really a repackaged Madden 10. So is it really worth $65? Doubt it, but if you want the small upgrades then undoubtedly you will buy it, but to me it is really just the same game another year. Has been since the new generation of consoles began.

At least in the sports where EA has competition, they actually make an effort to innovate. (MMA, Basketball). Again this is the reason why we need another Boxing game as well.

# 26 Jistic @ 08/12/10 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunt


	This is the first time in close to 14 years that I haven't picked up Madden on the first day. The game seem so blah, The reality is that Madden is now just a hold over game for many gamers because once NBA/NHL games a large amount gamers will forget about Madden 11.

Ditto.

And when you see how great NCAA 11 is you can put to rest all of the crap where we're supposed to feel guilty for wanting our football games to be great. NCAA 11 this year shows you what happens using the SAME ENGINE when people are dedicated to getting it right. There's always a segment albeit shrinking one that will say, "It's just a video game, it's FUN. Let's all have fun. You can't have a sim game. Sliders are stupid blah blah blah.

There's always excuses for Madden. And there were for NCAA for the longest time. But isn't if funny how when a game is ACTUALLY GOOD, you don't see the bug thread light up? You see people gush over EA. Cuz guess what kids, it's not the kids bitching in the forum's fault. It's the company making the crappy games fault.

Madden has now become EA's 4th or 5th best sports title. NCAA is absolutely fantastic this year. NHL and FIFA are great games that I just want to keep playing. Madden is the same old tired "effort" that it's always been. Yet it's the biggest selling.

Kinda makes you wonder, why should they even put effort it making it better?

Again after seeing what they did in one year of NCAA, Ian and whoever else they bring in for Madden has no excuse at all for the state of the product.

# 27 Other Guy @ 08/12/10 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunt


	This is the first time in close to 14 years that I haven't picked up Madden on the first day. The game seem so blah, The reality is that Madden is now just a hold over game for many gamers because once NBA/NHL games a large amount gamers will forget about Madden 11.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jistic


	Ditto.

This seems to be a growing sentiment. I'm very curious to see what Madden's sales numbers are going to look like. Also it seems like people's tolerance towards Madden's flaws are directly realted to how long they have been playing. People who have only played the last 2 or 3 versions, seem happy with Madden year to year. Those of us who have been dealing with the same issues for 7 or 8 years, are to the point of not even playing at all anymore.

# 28 stlstudios189 @ 08/12/10 10:54 AM

I have purchased the game and enjoy it. Do I wish that there was other choices out there yes. I have purchased every madden since Madden 92 except 98 when Gameday came out and blew Madden away. NFL 2k5 still gets played in my xbox but, I enjoy the new madden as well.

# 29 roadman @ 08/12/10 11:51 AM

I'm enjoying both games so far. I need sliders for both games, but don't have an issue so far with that.

I don't play online, offline only, so, sliders has saved Madden for me. I've had to defensive battles with the Ravens vs Packers.

14 pts was the most any one team scored.

# 30 kjcheezhead @ 08/12/10 12:21 PM

Great article. I am one of those guys who used to be a die hard Madden fan but quickly tired of Madden 10 and now can't bring myself to purchase 11. I spent the Tuesday "holiday" looking for deals on NCAA.

# 31 Speedy @ 08/12/10 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMChrisS


	Let's be honest here, you're probably going to buy Madden 11 if you're a football fan -- assuming you haven't already purchased it. I know I'm going to buy Madden 11.... All other sports games pale in comparison to the type of influence the little football-game-that-could has exerted over the years.

I disagree as well. Last year I bought Madden as it was vastly superior to NCAA...this year I bought NCAA as it is superior to Madden. Madden isn't the only football game unless the user specifically MUST have NFL otherwise in some years NCAA is simply better.

# 32 10yard-Fight @ 08/12/10 10:06 PM

i still haven't bought madden, i see a lot of folk feel the same way i do.

# 33 Valdarez @ 08/12/10 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMChrisS


	Let's be honest here, you're probably going to buy Madden 11* if you're a football fan...*

Actually, if you're a football fan, then odds are you would pass on the game. Odds are if you're a NFL fan however, that you are going to buy it. Big difference between football fan and NFL fan.

# 34 sacbillsfan @ 08/12/10 11:16 PM

This is the first time I won't be purchasing (or have Santa give it to me) since 1993. I've owned every single Madden except for that one on the Apple II computer. Sad times, I used to be a blind follower, but this year I'll only be playing NCAA, because they evolved from a terrible game last year to a solid sim this year.

# 35 PGaither84 @ 08/12/10 11:34 PM

What the heck was this? Let's really be honest with ourselves. If this were a post by a random OS user, I would be looking at a pink screen name with the word banned under it.

Quote:


	Tuesday marked the beginning of what many would consider a secular holiday. While there were no trees, candles, or even aluminum poles and feats of strengths, Tuesday marks the beginning of many long, wasted nights filled with cans of downed cokes, missed meals and social engagements. It's an event that has grown so large that economists now chart its impact, which has grown into the billions.

"Lots of people buy Madden when it comes out. [Insert Seinfeld joke here]"

Quote:


	Let's be honest here, you're probably going to buy Madden 11 if you're a football fan -- assuming you haven't already purchased it. I know I'm going to buy Madden 11. It's a cultural moment. A time in which you know anyone and everyone who cares the smallest iota about sports video games will be playing the same game. All other sports games pale in comparison to the type of influence the little football-game-that-could has exerted over the years.

"And let's face it, you will too."

Quote:


	But let put a little disclaimer here before continuing. This article is not meant to piss on your parade. There are no doubt people out there who have been chomping at the bit to get their hands on the newest edition of Madden. A friend of mine told me last week over beers that he can't sleep in the days leading up to the release. Good for him. Good for you, dedicated Madden enthusiast. Enjoy it. Slave over it.

"[Terms of service for cursing] And that's likely because you enjoy the game."

Quote:


	However, this article is for the skeptics out there. Those of us who greeted Tuesday with a certain type of existential dread. We know that we're a short drive away from getting our fix of video game football. We're slugging through the dog days of baseball summer and could not be more ready for the NFL to commence operations. But we also know what to expect when we turn on our system of choice with Madden in the tray.

"However, I'm not writing this for you. This is for people 'know' Madden is terribad."

Quote:


	I am completely and fully aware that I'm probably going to be disappointed. Sure, there will be a certain newness to it -- a quality that will distinguish it, if ever so slightly from Madden 10 -- but I know better than to expect some sort of evolutionary leap forward that will forever change the way I play games. I will play a slightly tweaked game marked with the same types of problems I've grown accustomed to over the years.

"I'm going into playing Madden 11 expecting to be disappointed."

Quote:


	I will blaze through AI-controlled defenses using a mildly talented tight end. The running game will either be too hard or too easy, with no discernible middle ground out of the box. I will play the same game over and over and over again until I put it away and get back to work on my NCAA 11 dynasty.

"The game is too easy, and ratings don't matter. NCAA11 FTW!!!"

Quote:


	What's so disappointing to me, and so many others, is that we get the distinct feeling that the largeness of the franchise is holding it back. After all, we've experienced alternatives. At one point, we were graced with NFL 2K5, an ambitious and incredible game that hit all the right notes. That particular franchise, faced with the daunting task of downing the oversized dragon that is Madden, tinkered with itself and took chances. The results were nothing short of staggering.

"[Tries to spark a 2k5/Madden war] I'm not trying to spark a 2k5/Madden war."

Quote:


	Still, though, this is not about Madden versus NFL 2K. This is about the fact that we now live in a world with only one NFL-licensed effort -- for all of the perks of Backbreaker this is technically still a one-pony show for NFL fans -- and the water in this pond has gone stagnant. It is not worthwhile, after all, for EA or its developers to swing for the fences on a consistent basis. You're going to buy Madden 11, I'm going to buy Madden 11, and it doesn't pay to have a revolution if you're the only one who's going to lose your job.

"Seriously, not starting a 2k5/Madden war. I'm just saying 2k5 is better than Madden. Oh, and the people who make Madden are overly conservative [lazy without outright saying that word] because they have no incentive to 'make a good game.' Seriously though guy's, I'm not bashing EA or trying to start a 2k5 war."

Yeah... great read. Now watch, I'll get an infraction for calling a shovel a shovel.

He doesn't review the game in any way, he doesn't talk about "the elephant n the room." The Elephant in the room is that Madden's lead designers and developers have one goal in mind and EA's directors/etc. have another. I have met Ian and Phil and others in person, shaken their hands, talked Madden and Football with them. They are either underpaid actors [actors make millions,] or they really want to make a great sim football game. On the other hand, like a few other threads talk about, Madden has to walk a fine line between casual gamers and hard core gamers. Each year they need one or more "back of the Box" features.

Look, I try not to be a jerk, and I try really hard to be fair... but in my opinion, I think that it isn't for a lack of trying on EA's part, but it may be for a lack of skill of certain [unnamed] individuals or groups of individuals. I couldn't even name names if I wanted to. For years presentation in Madden has been bad. Forget how great 2k games presentation is, Madden on this generation of consoles has been vastly inferior to Madden on the last generation. this isn't the fault of Gus Johnson or tom hamond. Sure I was bored by Tom, but now that we have Gus, we can all still see plain as day that there are commenter AI issues, long gaps of silence even when using game flow, and not a lot of variety in those lines when it is working 'correctly." The QB's are always the key players to the game? Also, how many actual match ups do they have in Madden 11? Outside of Peyton and Eli Manning and a few select others, you always hear the same one generic match up with Gus saying "What an interesting storyline Chris, and we'll follow that storyline as the game moves on." Which they don't, partly because they is no story line.

I could go on and on listing the flaws in madden, but that's not what I am here [at OS] for. Not every game is going to be perfect, but as gamers we all have different standards we want our games to live up to. Also, the industry itself, like every other part of life, has standards and accomplishments that everyone else is measured up against. people say that players like Ronnie Lott and LT [Lawrence Taylor for our younger fans out there] redefined the positions they played. The same is true in video games. To me, Madden on last gen set the standard for both franchise mode and on the field pre-snap adjustments [audibles, hot routes, playmaker tool, etc.] Madden still hasn't lived up the franchise mark this generation, and it wasn't until madden 09 that we got close to last gen's pre-snap options. Most of us are still waiting for Man-Align to work like it used to, and not all of us are happy with Strategy Pad. Other games have set standards for game play and tackling. Madden can rival those games in some areas and fall flat on it's face in others.

Again I can go on, but I have typed enough to get my point across 6 times over I am sure. [What an empty article, and one that I feel that if written by a new OS member would have gotten them the ban-hammer and a locked thread. However, that's just my opinion. I'm no mod.]

# 36 Other Guy @ 08/12/10 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGaither84


	The Elephant in the room is that Madden's lead designers and developers have one goal in mind and EA's directors/etc. have another. I have met Ian and Phil and others in person, shaken their hands, talked Madden and Football with them. They are either underpaid actors [actors make millions,] or they really want to make a great sim football game.

Nailed it! I firmly believe that the blame for Madden's lack of progression lies with the suits in EA's corporate offices, not the hard working designers/programmers in the development studio.

# 37 spankdatazz22 @ 08/13/10 01:36 AM

I have a hard time blaming the EA "suits". Pretty much every EA sports title struggled when they went next gen. Fight Night may have been the most impressive, but it had a ton of problems/lack of depth. Imo it's really less about Madden versus "other football games" as you can measure Madden (and imo NCAA's) progression against other EA sports titles.

I'm no expert, but I'd say most of their core titles managed to improve dramatically next gen after stumbling initially. I don't see people fondly looking back on the last gen years of NHL, FIFA, Fight Night, NBA Live, etc. NBA Live in particular has struggled much this generation, including having truly horrific outings a few years. But they've pushed the envelope. The work that team did with Synergy prompted 2K to take tendencies in their game to the next level the following year. Much of the movement/footplanting in Live is what many would like to see in NBA2K. While NBA2K legimately established itself as the dominant title, no one can deny NBA Live has contributed to how basketball gaming has evolved.

That really can't be said for Madden or NCAA. The much hailed "locomotion" is an innovation from another EA game - and really meant to address Tiburon's own mistakes in making player movement overly twitchy when they went next gen. They actually had a system of momentum/movement in place last generation - the game just lacked the player interaction and presentation elements other games were bringing to the table at the time. But in looking back at the past six years, what has Tiburon truly innovated with? What have they done to push football gaming forward? I honestly can't think of anything. Madden and NCAA have been so bad this gen that they seem to get credit simply when they're competent efforts. Even with NCAA being "great" this year, I don't see where it's evolved much beyond it's last gen counterpart. I think a lot of people are just happy it's a very competent effort for a change. I think that's why there's a wide disparity in what gamers expect from Madden/NCAA. Some people remember how truly bad the titles were and appreciate them for getting back to any level of respectibility.

I mean c'mon - with all the issues all of us KNOW Madden has on default, you have sites like OS rating the game a 9? Exceptional? Even with everything it's still missing relative to older games, let alone bringing something new to the table? If a game like MLB the Show had guys routinely smacking 80+ homers a year or making gravity-defying grabs, the game would get dogged. The standards for Madden and NCAA are so much lower than they are for pretty much every other sports title out there. And it's a shame, given these are the only choices for a NFL or NCAA football game

# 38 jerry161 @ 08/13/10 01:53 AM

I for one find this thread very disturbing. For a site supposed to be about hard core sports fan gamers I find it very disappointing that all you guys seem to want to talk about is the lack of game modes or changes. I as a sports fan want them to work on the fundamentals of the game to get back to what the game of football is actually like and get away from all these gimmicks and video game footballl modes. Personally you can keep your new crap like vision cones and superstar mode. Please get the fundamentals of the game on the field fixed!!! The national media has also geared itself toward complaining about missing features. Give me a break! This Madden has made more progress than any next gen Madden!

You game dorks that are upset because the mode where you live out your fantasy where you are actually good at sports need to get a life. I for one will be very disappointed if the Madden team goes back to putting in a new mode each year that does nothing to help the core game.

This Madden is far from perfect but I am very glad they decided to work on the tackling animation and blocking systems and AI and hope they continue to do so in future Maddens rather than adding stupid features like being able to price my hot dogs. The graphics for bad weather could be stepped up quite a bit too. I loved the Muddy fields in Madden 09.

# 39 2krunk4u @ 08/13/10 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dewie12


	EA in general does not consistently build on its titles. Other companies do a much better job at evolving their game over and over each year to where you don't feel like you are playing the same game. Everytime I play Madden all the games feel the same. Which could be because they haven't quite changed much of the core functionality. The demo with "speed" play basically increased that feeling. The praise I give to sports video games is if I feel I am trying to win a game of that sport, or if I am trying to win a video game. When a company can make me forget about the latter and immerse me in the sport, those are the games I continue to play. Madden and NCAA are not those games, and haven't been for most of their existence.

post of the decade.

# 40 PGaither84 @ 08/13/10 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jistic


	Again after seeing what they did in one year of NCAA, Ian and whoever else they bring in for Madden has no excuse at all for the state of the product.

I was pretty much with you until you said that. A TON of what makes NCAA 11 great is really what the madden team did last year + locomotion and more tuning. I still enjoy NCAA more this year, but mostly because the dynasty mode is so much fun and the game run smoother overall. If it weren't for Ian and others, NCAA 11 wouldn't be what it is today. I thought that was pretty obvious, I guess not.

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