Backbreaker News Post

Backbreaker Preview (Xbox 360 Magazine)

03:24 PM - February 24, 2010 by granddogg

One of the Backbreaker forum members, managed to scan the Xbox 360 Magazine preview of the game.

Quote:


	"Just thought I'd point out to all those UK BB fans, there's a new 4 page preview hitting the stands today. There are some juicy quotes in the there!"

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# 21 TheWatcher @ 02/25/10 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveDQ


	I'm really becoming excited for this game. I don't like the constant "this will hit EA where it hurts" mentality. For people who want something different, or something that is recreating how we play videogame football, Backbreaker has great potential. Hoping the game puts EA in its place will just lead to more frustration. All EA has to do is flex its NFL muscle in the casual gamer's face and it's a lock for them.

I agree. I think some of the tone of that article was going a bit too far. You have to be very careful about what you claim publicly and certainly with how you make reference to your competition. Aside from the possibility of your product not living up to the hype (it happens all the time), you also have to consider that you may have to wind up working with your competition someday.

# 22 bigsmallwood @ 02/25/10 11:53 AM

Interesting article. There is a lot of BIG talk going on about the gameplay and I hope it delivers. The only issue I have so far is that it seems that we have yet to be shown anything outside of highlights. I want to see full plays from scrimmage that are going to make my jaw drop before one starts saying the game is "revolutionary" and look out EA. Make us believers BackBreaker....we need more proof of how great the gameplay is going to be.

# 23 adamgod8 @ 02/25/10 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigsmallwood


	Interesting article. There is a lot of BIG talk going on about the gameplay and I hope it delivers. The only issue I have so far is that it seems that we have yet to be shown anything outside of highlights. I want to see full plays from scrimmage that are going to make my jaw drop before one starts saying the game is "revolutionary" and look out EA. Make us believers BackBreaker....we need more proof of how great the gameplay is going to be.

patience my son, early March a lot of new info will be released when the embargo lifts

# 24 kjcheezhead @ 02/25/10 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveDQ


	I'm really becoming excited for this game. I don't like the constant "this will hit EA where it hurts" mentality. For people who want something different, or something that is recreating how we play videogame football, Backbreaker has great potential. Hoping the game puts EA in its place will just lead to more frustration. All EA has to do is flex its NFL muscle in the casual gamer's face and it's a lock for them.

Very true. Madden and Backbreaker have two competely different styles, and Backbreaker needs to appeal to more than just football gamers who are tired of Madden in order to succeed.

The developers have actually done a good job trying to avoid the comparisons. In the interview part of this article they mention that they don't know if EA's broadcast approach in recreating the NFL would even work with this technology. Unfortunately, EA makes the only other football title out there so reviewers will naturally try to make comparisons.

I see it like this, EA is the king of football titles right now. They are so big, no one has dared to try a football game in 3 years. For reviewers to compare Backbreaker to Madden and come away thinking it is even close gets me excited for this game. Not because I think Backbreaker will topple EA, but because Backbreaker is surprising a few people with how much potential it has.

On another note, I have two questions.

1. Does anyone know anything about this magazine and how reputable they are? British magazine, previewing a game by British developers has me worried their might be some homerism going on here.

2. There is a spot that says they tested a version that is 80% complete. Is that right? 3 months to go before this game hits shelves and they have 20% of the game yet to finish??

# 25 bigsmallwood @ 02/25/10 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamgod8


	patience my son, early March a lot of new info will be released when the embargo lifts

Good point!

# 26 Valdarez @ 02/26/10 01:28 AM

Backbreaker definitely has a lot of potential. Anytime a gamer is put 'in the action', it's almost always a positive. TopSpin 2 allowed us to play close 3rd person camera angle, and for real tennis players, it was pretty close to the real thing. I've tried to ask Ian what EA's approach is, whether they are presenting the game from the fans perspective (broadcast) or the players (1st / 3rd person), as most football games to date stand awkwardly in the middle, including Madden though it tends to go for the broadcast more than anything else.

On break away runs, I never understood why Madden pulled the camera back, and then shook it back and forth. That has to be one of the worst presentation elements ever added to a game. Instead of putting me in no man lands view wise, have the camera zoom in on the player so you see what they see as they cross the line. That would have been far more realistic and easily more engaging. This is why you need a clear vision for your presentation, and as far as I can see Madden still doesn't have one. It's VERY refreshing to see BackBreaker clearly has a vision and has executed towards that vision from day one.

# 27 Valdarez @ 02/26/10 01:55 AM

OMG... the article says that the Players will be 1-22??? I never read this before! Has this been public knowledge for awhile and I've just been out of the loop? Any more information on 'how' that's going to work? That is just AWESOME!

# 28 t11 @ 02/26/10 03:22 AM

Oh no... hysteria... lol

It was a typo.

# 29 Glorious Arc @ 02/26/10 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t11


	Oh no... hysteria... lol It was a typo.

Didnt we just go over this in the other...

I wouldnt start spreading the word that BB is going to be like fifa soccer 11 human players vs 11 human players just yet because Rob one of the devs came in and said it was a typo...He also

at the end of his comment saying "Sorry if it got your hopes up

" Only time will tell if he was being 100% serious or if he was trying to cover up a premature release of some seriously amazing info.

# 30 BrianFifaFan @ 02/26/10 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveDQ


	I'm really becoming excited for this game. I don't like the constant "this will hit EA where it hurts" mentality. For people who want something different, or something that is recreating how we play videogame football, Backbreaker has great potential. Hoping the game puts EA in its place will just lead to more frustration. All EA has to do is flex its NFL muscle in the casual gamer's face and it's a lock for them.

I'm gonna have to disagree with this. PES has had option file capability forever. And I'm sure that the EA suits would have loved to shut down the capability to be able to make real kits and logos. They (EA) paid a lot of dough to have authentic stuff. But they couldn't shut PES down. 2k just didn't want to offend the NFL hoping that they could get back in the game during APF development. BB's parent company doesn't have that type of worry, EA already has said no on buying the tech, so Natural Motion has nothing really to lose beng diplomatic.And it would be a stretch for the NFL to cry copyright infringement. BB has different uni's that in no way look like a NFL uniform. Now the logos would be user created and shared, so they'd have a hard time trying to push that angle. So the NFL is gonna leave it alone, as will EA. Unless they wanted to risk their ability to offer editing in NCAA.....

IMO, not worth it for EA to try and set legal precedent.

# 31 TheWatcher @ 02/26/10 09:18 AM

^^^ I think Dave was meaning that the NFL license appeals to gamers more than a non-NFL licensed product, and all EA has to do is play up that part with a strong marketing push and it's going to hurt any competitor who's trying to make a mark with technology alone.

Madden is going to sell in the millions anyway and BB isn't going to hurt that, we all know that. But if BB sells a few hundred thousand it'll be a big victory for everybody.

What bothers me is when I hear gamers say they won't touch this game because it doesn't have an NFL license. I understand why they say it, but they may not realize that not buying it will only help to keep the market down. If the game is good and you have the means, it would be a good idea to buy it just to help open up the market.

This is a copycat industry, and if a non-NFL licensed game succeeds, more studios will take a shot. This is exactly what we want to happen. But like I've said in the past (and we see this happening here and there), smaller indie's will pop up making American football games. If you count between console, mobile, and internet-based American football games, there is a good number out there. Right now, it's up to gamers to help open the possibilities. Instead of all the complaining I hear people doing about how much they hate Madden and the NFL license situation, I wish they'd stop and start buying and getting into these other games on the market. This situation is not going to change unless gamers stop crying and start getting involved.

Finally, it should be noted that making a good football game has nothing to do with a license. Some of the greatest football games of all time did not have the NFL license. It's already a fact that the technology exists to make the NFL license irrelevant, meaning that the NFL can be recreated by end users. It just takes a developer who is willing to make the tools available like BB is doing. The only thing that will keep this from being 100% are the player models which look nothing like current players (BB is supposedly going for a futuristic look), but another company may come along and create models that look like current players. We just need to keep supporting the market to make sure these possibilities become available.

# 32 turftickler @ 02/26/10 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianFifaFan


	I'm gonna have to disagree with this. PES has had option file capability forever. And I'm sure that the EA suits would have loved to shut down the capability to be able to make real kits and logos. They (EA) paid a lot of dough to have authentic stuff. But they couldn't shut PES down. 2k just didn't want to offend the NFL hoping that they could get back in the game during APF development. BB's parent company doesn't have that type of worry, EA already has said no on buying the tech, so Natural Motion has nothing really to lose beng diplomatic.And it would be a stretch for the NFL to cry copyright infringement. BB has different uni's that in no way look like a NFL uniform. Now the logos would be user created and shared, so they'd have a hard time trying to push that angle. So the NFL is gonna leave it alone, as will EA. Unless they wanted to risk their ability to offer editing in NCAA..... IMO, not worth it for EA to try and set legal precedent.

Great post, Brian. We have been discussing this over at the official Backbreaker forum. I have been saying the same exact things there, but we have a few guys that keep fighting the truth. Scare tactics, I believe.

You have an impressive portfolio. What did you do when you worked on ESPN NFL 2k5?

# 33 SageInfinite @ 02/26/10 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWatcher


	^^^ I think Dave was meaning that the NFL license appeals to gamers more than a non-NFL licensed product, and all EA has to do is play up that part with a strong marketing push and it's going to hurt any competitor who's trying to make a mark with technology alone. Madden is going to sell in the millions anyway and BB isn't going to hurt that, we all know that. But if BB sells a few hundred thousand it'll be a big victory for everybody. What bothers me is when I hear gamers say they won't touch this game because it doesn't have an NFL license. I understand why they say it, but they may not realize that not buying it will only help to keep the market down. If the game is good and you have the means, it would be a good idea to buy it just to help open up the market. This is a copycat industry, and if a non-NFL licensed game succeeds, more studios will take a shot. This is exactly what we want to happen. But like I've said in the past (and we see this happening here and there), smaller indie's will pop up making American football games. If you count between console, mobile, and internet-based American football games, there is a good number out there. Right now, it's up to gamers to help open the possibilities. Instead of all the complaining I hear people doing about how much they hate Madden and the NFL license situation, I wish they'd stop and start buying and getting into these other games on the market. This situation is not going to change unless gamers stop crying and start getting involved. Finally, it should be noted that making a good football game has nothing to do with a license. Some of the greatest football games of all time did not have the NFL license. It's already a fact that the technology exists to make the NFL license irrelevant, meaning that the NFL can be recreated by end users. It just takes a developer who is willing to make the tools available like BB is doing. The only thing that will keep this from being 100% are the player models which look nothing like current players (BB is supposedly going for a futuristic look), but another company may come along and create models that look like current players. We just need to keep supporting the market to make sure these possibilities become available.

# 34 CharleyDanger @ 02/26/10 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianFifaFan


	I'm gonna have to disagree with this. PES has had option file capability forever. And I'm sure that the EA suits would have loved to shut down the capability to be able to make real kits and logos. They (EA) paid a lot of dough to have authentic stuff. But they couldn't shut PES down. 2k just didn't want to offend the NFL hoping that they could get back in the game during APF development. BB's parent company doesn't have that type of worry, EA already has said no on buying the tech, so Natural Motion has nothing really to lose beng diplomatic.And it would be a stretch for the NFL to cry copyright infringement. BB has different uni's that in no way look like a NFL uniform. Now the logos would be user created and shared, so they'd have a hard time trying to push that angle. So the NFL is gonna leave it alone, as will EA. Unless they wanted to risk their ability to offer editing in NCAA..... IMO, not worth it for EA to try and set legal precedent.

I think you made some solid points but I respectively disagree.

First I think companies being liable for UGC is pretty clear cut with the DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act) The below is a link to an article written by a lawyer that specializes in interactive entertainment.

http://www.lawofthelevel.com/2009/07...bility-claims/

With that said, a company has to have motive to to take legal action right?

Well you made a good point about PES, but it would not be EAs fight in the NatMo case. The NFL owns the rights, EA is just allowed to use them. Now the fact that the NFL sold exclusive use of the rights to EA makes the NFL legally obligated to make sure no one else is using those rights. So the NFL is not just motivated, but obligated. Also I think the NFL has already taken note to the fact that the NCAA is in court for not protecting its players names and likeness, and the NFL will take steps to prevent such future liability.

NCAA case: http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/200...e-rabbit-hole/

First, I think your right about logos and jerseys not being accurate enough to be called infringing, but I dont think logos will be the issue. I think it will be the infringement of players names and likeness that leads to legal action. Now NatMo has very generic player models, but proving name and info to be infringing is 10 times easier than proving likeness.

Now you spoke of EA not wanting to set a precedent. Well the above NCAA lawsuit also includes EA. The below is a quote from the suit

"EA Sports "intentionally circumvents the prohibitions on utilizing student-athletes' names by allowing gamers to upload entire rosters, which include players' names and other information, directly into the game in a matter of seconds."

EAs case:http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4151071

So the cat is already out of the bag really. I actually think that EA will be pushing the NFL from day one to prevent an illegal recreation
of the NFL in BB.

I will admit that the EA/NCAA lawsuit is still pending, but the judge in the case has already dismissed all attempts by EA to have the case thrown out. If a single former NCAA player has gotten that far, imagine what a fortune 500 company and one of most powerful sports league in the world could do.

# 35 TheWatcher @ 02/27/10 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharleyDanger


	I think you made some solid points but I respectively disagree. First I think companies being liable for UGC is pretty clear cut with the DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act) The below is a link to an article written by a lawyer that specializes in interactive entertainment. http://www.lawofthelevel.com/2009/07...bility-claims/ With that said, a company has to have motive to to take legal action right? Well you made a good point about PES, but it would not be EAs fight in the NatMo case. The NFL owns the rights, EA is just allowed to use them. Now the fact that the NFL sold exclusive use of the rights to EA makes the NFL legally obligated to make sure no one else is using those rights. So the NFL is not just motivated, but obligated. Also I think the NFL has already taken note to the fact that the NCAA is in court for not protecting its players names and likeness, and the NFL will take steps to prevent such future liability. NCAA case: http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/200...e-rabbit-hole/ First, I think your right about logos and jerseys not being accurate enough to be called infringing, but I dont think logos will be the issue. I think it will be the infringement of players names and likeness that leads to legal action. Now NatMo has very generic player models, but proving name and info to be infringing is 10 times easier than proving likeness. Now you spoke of EA not wanting to set a precedent. Well the above NCAA lawsuit also includes EA. The below is a quote from the suit "EA Sports "intentionally circumvents the prohibitions on utilizing student-athletes' names by allowing gamers to upload entire rosters, which include players' names and other information, directly into the game in a matter of seconds." EAs case:http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4151071 So the cat is already out of the bag really. I actually think that EA will be pushing the NFL from day one to prevent an illegal recreation of the NFL in BB. I will admit that the EA/NCAA lawsuit is still pending, but the judge in the case has already dismissed all attempts by EA to have the case thrown out. If a single former NCAA player has gotten that far, imagine what a fortune 500 company and one of most powerful sports league in the world could do.

At the moment, the only reason the NFL's attempt would fail and probably never go to trial, is because the abilities to recreate are all tied into tools controlled by the end-user. NCAA Football got into trouble because the players they shipped were'nt generic enough and as the claim shows a lot of players were accurate down to height, weight, and city of birth. You have to wonder what the NCAA team and the legal department were thinking? They were just asking for it.

Part of the NCAA suit, however, is quite stupid but frightening at the same time. The idea that the NCAA should be penalized for END-USERS editing names is ridiculous. If Keller wins, that means editing names and various other attributes may be prohibited, meaning companies will no longer include this indispensible function. That's scary.

I wouldn't mind if Keller got a victory on the likeness part pertaining to attributes and looks, because he does have a valid case there, but the name editing part is a very irresponsible claim that could be potentially disastrous, because all it takes is one judge who doesn't understand the implications or simply doesn't care about them, and we're all screwed. The minute you take end-users right to do what they want away, you've crossed the line. There are some franchises that such a ruling could set a precendent where they'd be crippled just because a major buying factor would be gone and gamers wouldn't be nearly as interested. This could kill games like Maximum Football, PES, and BackBreaker.

I'm all for the NCAA being taken to task, but the editing angle of the claim puts me on the NCAA's side this time. If Keller wins, Football gamers lose again (how many devastating blows can we take?) and this time it may be a fatal blow for some franchises that rely on allowing the end-user to edit players.

# 36 GlennN @ 02/27/10 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWatcher


	I wouldn't mind if Keller got a victory on the likeness part pertaining to attributes and looks, because he does have a valid case there, but the name editing part is a very irresponsible claim that could be potentially disastrous, because all it takes is one judge who doesn't understand the implications or simply doesn't care about them, and we're all screwed. The minute you take end-users right to do what they want away, you've crossed the line. There are some franchises that such a ruling could set a precendent where they'd be crippled just because a major buying factor would be gone and gamers wouldn't be nearly as interested. This could kill games like Maximum Football, PES, and BackBreaker. I'm all for the NCAA being taken to task, but the editing angle of the claim puts me on the NCAA's side this time. If Keller wins, Football gamers lose again (how many devastating blows can we take?) and this time it may be a fatal blow for some franchises that rely on allowing the end-user to edit players.

Actually, it would seem success by Keller could kill any edit or create player/team function at all. Even a licensed game, like Madden, only has a certain license. Creating a player, or editing a player, could lead to the end user creating a real rookie, or a real former player, neither of which would be covered under the license, and, thus, would be unlawful (or at least actionable) under a potential Keller victory. You are correct, a Judge who does not fully understand the ramifications could make all edit and create player/team functions obsolete.

# 37 ronnieb @ 02/27/10 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWatcher


	At the moment, the only reason the NFL's attempt would fail and probably never go to trial, is because the abilities to recreate are all tied into tools controlled by the end-user. NCAA Football got into trouble because the players they shipped were'nt generic enough and as the claim shows a lot of players were accurate down to height, weight, and city of birth. You have to wonder what the NCAA team and the legal department were thinking? They were just asking for it. Part of the NCAA suit, however, is quite stupid but frightening at the same time. The idea that the NCAA should be penalized for END-USERS editing names is ridiculous. If Keller wins, that means editing names and various other attributes may be prohibited, meaning companies will no longer include this indispensible function. That's scary. I wouldn't mind if Keller got a victory on the likeness part pertaining to attributes and looks, because he does have a valid case there, but the name editing part is a very irresponsible claim that could be potentially disastrous, because all it takes is one judge who doesn't understand the implications or simply doesn't care about them, and we're all screwed. The minute you take end-users right to do what they want away, you've crossed the line. There are some franchises that such a ruling could set a precendent where they'd be crippled just because a major buying factor would be gone and gamers wouldn't be nearly as interested. This could kill games like Maximum Football, PES, and BackBreaker. I'm all for the NCAA being taken to task, but the editing angle of the claim puts me on the NCAA's side this time. If Keller wins, Football gamers lose again (how many devastating blows can we take?) and this time it may be a fatal blow for some franchises that rely on allowing the end-user to edit players.

oh men you just scare the hell out of me
is there a video gamer judge in the supreme court we can rely on ?
just in case ....

# 38 jyoung @ 02/27/10 01:52 PM

So did anyone else read the part on page 3 were it says "Full FIFA-style, 11-versus-11 online play"?

Does that mean we are finally getting some full-team online action ala FIFA, NHL and NBA Live?

That would be huge if true.

Edit: on page 4, it also says the game supports 1 -22 players! This could be happening!

# 39 allBthere @ 02/27/10 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlennN


	Actually, it would seem success by Keller could kill any edit or create player/team function at all. Even a licensed game, like Madden, only has a certain license. Creating a player, or editing a player, could lead to the end user creating a real rookie, or a real former player, neither of which would be covered under the license, and, thus, would be unlawful (or at least actionable) under a potential Keller victory. You are correct, a Judge who does not fully understand the ramifications could make all edit and create player/team functions obsolete.

That's craziness. If that were to go down, it would be illegal for me to draw a picture of Donovan McNabb and give it to a friend.

# 40 TheWatcher @ 02/27/10 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlennN


	Actually, it would seem success by Keller could kill any edit or create player/team function at all. Even a licensed game, like Madden, only has a certain license. Creating a player, or editing a player, could lead to the end user creating a real rookie, or a real former player, neither of which would be covered under the license, and, thus, would be unlawful (or at least actionable) under a potential Keller victory. You are correct, a Judge who does not fully understand the ramifications could make all edit and create player/team functions obsolete.

Yes, that's exactly what I was saying, we agree. But I'm looking more at NCAA and non-licensed Pro games across all sports (like when I mentioned PES) because they rely heavily on player editing. Madden will still survive just fine without it because having the likenesses and attributes of the real NFL players is paramount and it's already part of their license, but the other games could be finished without editing. I personally couldn't imagine playing an NCAA Football game without being able to edit names and other things.

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