Madden 2010 News Post

Madden NFL 10 Blog - Improvements to WR/DB Interaction

11:54 AM - March 2, 2009 by Ian_Cummings

Check out the latest Madden NFL 10 blog. This one covers the improvements to WR/DB interaction.

Quote:


	"As most folks already know, as a design team we've been very active on the forums recently (starting about a month or so before the Madden NFL 09 release). Within minutes of talking with the community it's easy to tell that one of the most common areas requested for improvement is DB/WR play. Obviously, we're listening to you, and here are just some of the other improvements and changes that you can expect to see in Madden NFL 10 come August."

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Member Comments

# 121 NYyankz225 @ 03/02/09 09:59 PM

I think I'm going to send a cake to Ian and Co. if Madden 10 turns out as good as it sounds.

Maybe a bottle of champagne would be more topical. Then they could have a post release celebration and spray champagne all over their office. As long as they cover their computers though...we don't want them to have to start from scratch again

# 122 Vikes1 @ 03/02/09 10:31 PM

While watching the videos, I could really see how these changes are going to affect the look and feel of the passing game. [for the better.]

I take it that this means no more of the players "warping" to the ball. That alone will add to seeing more realistic incompletion's.

Another excellent update. Thanks Ian.

# 123 Lakers 24 7 @ 03/02/09 11:28 PM

After some hard criticism a few weeks ago I must say that I'm very pleased with this bit of information. This is the type of stuff that the sim community loves to hear. Now it sounds like we're only a few more announcements away from me finally being able to retire APF 2k8, maybe.. I'm looking forward to hearing more in the future weeks to come that's for sure.

# 124 BezO @ 03/03/09 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adfletch71


	Have Ian stated anything about the defensive double-teaming players? In 09, is was a broken feature and didnt work. I'm excited about the new wr/db animation, but i also want to know about the double-teaming as well. If u cant double team players, its still a broken game. I hope Ian can clarify that. Great news anyway

Yeah, don't forget about this. Over/inside, trail/outside double teams should replace the aimless chasing of the past.

# 125 monkeybutlerz @ 03/03/09 12:04 PM

Individually, all these enhancements sound great. I just hope they all come together and gel cohesively. Good individual parts don't necessarily make a great game (kind of like the Cowboys team of last year), but that being said, it's great to see the vision of this team and that they're swinging for the fences this year.

# 126 MrDhWhat @ 03/03/09 12:55 PM

All these changes are exciting.. for once i may not be able to wait for madden.

# 127 DubTrey1 @ 03/03/09 01:35 PM

Might as well add my two cents.... I love what I am reading this year from the EA devs. Specificall with Madden 10!!!

# 128 LBzrule @ 03/03/09 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adembroski


	Yes! A player changing positions due to defensive assignments should be replaced by his backup, not swapped with the player he replaced. I do hope the computer is programmed to use this option as well, in both varieties it comes in in the NFL. Madden players usually match their best CB on their opponents best receiver. NFL teams do this now and then, but not that often. More often, NFL teams will double the opponent's best receiver, and locked up their best on the opponent's #2. Usually far more effective.

Actually this is not exactly what I meant. What I meant was this. In the older Madden's let's say I'm running 3-4 and I match up a particular OLB on the starting TE. What happened in those games was if the TE lined up opposite of where that OLB normally lined up, what they would do is automatically swap the other OLB out. I don't want that to happen. If it comes down to it, I want both of my OLB's lined up over the TE. This makes it easy for me to jump into a Bear front from the 3-4. That's why I do not want auto-swapping, so I can line people up the way I want and create fronts with my imagination. Same thing if I line the Safety up on the TE, I do not want a backer swapping out with the SS. That's how the old Madden's did it. The SS would be over the TE on the line, but then the OLB that is normally there now lines up at SS. I don't want that. I want both the SS and the OLB lined up over the TE, another version of a Bear front.

# 129 scalise89 @ 03/03/09 04:55 PM

I just thought of this idea....I think the makers of Madden should use ESPN, obviously, but also put in NBC and CBS since the games are played on those stations as well... HOWEVER, for whatever station your game is playing on, you should have a completely different Presentation, even commentators coudl be different for each station (idk how likely that is, but its a great idea)....also, for the superbowl or monday night games or just big games, have different presentation, have the commentators and fans and everything actually know whats going on instead of having the same OLD REPEATATIVE presentation, it makes the game get boring, we need CHANGE in the PRESENTATION!

# 130 adembroski @ 03/03/09 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LBzrule


	Actually this is not exactly what I meant. What I meant was this. In the older Madden's let's say I'm running 3-4 and I match up a particular OLB on the starting TE. What happened in those games was if the TE lined up opposite of where that OLB normally lined up, what they would do is automatically swap the other OLB out. I don't want that to happen. If it comes down to it, I want both of my OLB's lined up over the TE. This makes it easy for me to jump into a Bear front from the 3-4. That's why I do not want auto-swapping, so I can line people up the way I want and create fronts with my imagination. Same thing if I line the Safety up on the TE, I do not want a backer swapping out with the SS. That's how the old Madden's did it. The SS would be over the TE on the line, but then the OLB that is normally there now lines up at SS. I don't want that. I want both the SS and the OLB lined up over the TE, another version of a Bear front.

I see... my issue with that... if they don't move players in man/zone combos, and the WR moved to TE, and my CB is locked, all of the sudden whoever's taking that WR's place on the outside has nobody on him.

# 131 LBzrule @ 03/03/09 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adembroski


	I see... my issue with that... if they don't move players in man/zone combos, and the WR moved to TE, and my CB is locked, all of the sudden whoever's taking that WR's place on the outside has nobody on him.

Well what that does is forces you to call specific man zone combos against specific sets. If the offense only has two WR's you will not have to worry about there being a problem if you are running a 43, 34 man zone combo. Even if the WR subs out, it should auto-lock onto his sub. If they go 3 WR then it forces you to look for that same man zone combo out of the nickel and again you shouldn't have a problem.Secondly, what is a WR doing moving to TE? He should only be able to do that in a specific formation. But they tell us the personnel on the screen. If the WR moves inside, then the TE moves outside. That's where you make your adjustment manually or get out of that defense. At least that's how I'm understanding what you are saying and trying to respond to it.

# 132 adembroski @ 03/03/09 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LBzrule


	Well what that does is forces you to call specific man zone combos against specific sets. If the offense only has two WR's you will not have to worry about there being a problem if you are running a 43, 34 man zone combo. Even if the WR subs out, it should auto-lock onto his sub. If they go 3 WR then it forces you to look for that same man zone combo out of the nickel and again you shouldn't have a problem.Secondly, what is a WR doing moving to TE? He should only be able to do that in a specific formation. But they tell us the personnel on the screen. If the WR moves inside, then the TE moves outside. That's where you make your adjustment manually or get out of that defense. At least that's how I'm understanding what you are saying and trying to respond to it.

When John Taylor made the touchdown catch from Joe Montana that beat the Bengals with 38 second left, he was lined up at tight end. In the original West Coast offense, there were rarely players subbed out by formation. The starting eleven were expected to be able to play multiple positions so that the offense forced the defense to stick with its base set... so even if the offense went with 2 tight (as they did on that play), the defense wouldn't know 2 TEs were in on the play until the offense reached the LOS.

What I'm saying is, if you're not in man-lock... which is usually the case with combination coverages... and you have a corner locked on a WR, and that WR lines up at a position that would normally have a different position (such as a linebacker or safety) covering it, nobody's going to be covering the position the locked corner normally would.

Now it sounds like you're saying "Then pay more attention and be ready to call audibles when necessary", and I guess I can't argue with that logic.

# 133 shttymcgee @ 03/03/09 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adembroski


	More often, NFL teams will double the opponent's best receiver, and locked up their best on the opponent's #2. Usually far more effective.

Not really, the closest thing like this is when a team plays quarter-quarter-half coverage with the cloud coming to the identified receiver, effectively double-zoning him, but if #2 gets to the flat now, the cb will pass the wide out to the safety. You see some bracket coverage every once in a while, but not that much. You hear the "pundits" say so and so was double covered, but in reality it's often the double-zone concept.

# 134 sooners52794 @ 03/03/09 06:31 PM

feel free to flame me if this was already said, as i dont feel like reading through the posts, but im counting on there being illegall contact. any chance of this? something was mentioned about the linebacker chucking the wr as he crosses the middle, and i was thinking that if the lb was (and is probably more than 5 yds downfield) that that's definitely illegal contact

# 135 adembroski @ 03/03/09 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shttymcgee


	Not really, the closest thing like this is when a team plays quarter-quarter-half coverage with the cloud coming to the identified receiver, effectively double-zoning him, but if #2 gets to the flat now, the cb will pass the wide out to the safety. You see some bracket coverage every once in a while, but not that much. You hear the "pundits" say so and so was double covered, but in reality it's often the double-zone concept.

I was saying that CB2 and another vs. WR1 and CB1 vs. WR2 is more common than CB1 locked on WR1

# 136 kcarr @ 03/03/09 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shttymcgee


	Not really, the closest thing like this is when a team plays quarter-quarter-half coverage with the cloud coming to the identified receiver, effectively double-zoning him, but if #2 gets to the flat now, the cb will pass the wide out to the safety. You see some bracket coverage every once in a while, but not that much. You hear the "pundits" say so and so was double covered, but in reality it's often the double-zone concept.

An excellent example of a team covering the number 2 WR with a number 1 corner while having another corner cover the number 1 WR with help from a safety was the jets pats game that went to overtime this year.

The jets spent almost the entire game with either dwight lowery or ty law covering randy moss in press coverage with a safety over the top while darrelle revis stayed one on one with welker and the other corner not covering moss covered gaffney. This let welker and gaffney have pretty good games but also kept moss almost completely out of the game. Sure he had the catch at the end of regulation but that was on one of the few plays they didn't go with the previously described coverage. Before that moss had 2 catches for 10 yards.

This was the Jets way of forcing the rest of the Pats team to beat them and taking what they figured to be the most dangerous player on the pats roster out of the equation. When you consider the jets were covering an impressive and dangerous group of recievers while they had one good corner, a 4th round draft pick rookie, and a washed up former star corner.

# 137 Glorious Arc @ 03/03/09 07:41 PM

Did anyone notice how in the route running vid the 2010 player started his sprint in a more realistic manner?

Not only was his acc and speed changed to be more real but he also looked like a real player getting off the line. He is bent over and is pumping his arms hard until he gets more vertical because he is at speed.

Great stuff, I really dont know how in the world EA plans to keep giving stuff out thats better.

# 138 cowboy_kmoney @ 03/03/09 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glorious Arc


	Did anyone notice how in the route running vid the 2010 player started his sprint in a more realistic manner? Not only was his acc and speed changed to be more real but he also looked like a real player getting off the line. He is bent over and is pumping his arms hard until he gets more vertical because he is at speed. Great stuff, I really dont know how in the world EA plans to keep giving stuff out thats better.

Your right bro I really would like to see whats in store for next week

...

# 139 kcarr @ 03/03/09 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glorious Arc


	Great stuff, I really dont know how in the world EA plans to keep giving stuff out thats better.

I have a couple guesses how they can improve for a couple weeks. Maintaining if for the next few months though, that could be tough.

I could see maybe a week on part two of the receiving game. There are a few more things that I think need to be looked at here. This could include but not be limited to:

1. Jump balls, there actually needs to be receivers going up for the ball. Maybe animations with players on both sides competing for the ball in the air. Some decision making for the DB in terms of going for the ball vs. going after the receiver. Also something to avoid things like in the Apex vid where Dawkins goes for the ball and then turns while in air to hit the receiver. There needs to be a decision before the jump is made. Also, hitting the receiver is not the only way to force a drop, make players try to strip the ball as it comes in, try to hit it out of the receivers hands and what not.

2. A complete reworking of hit while in the air animations. Make more realistic results on these hits. Go away from the spectacular in favor of realistic here. The spectacular animations should be reserved for rare occasions.

3. Allowing more control over the touch on passes and more variety of passes to help with properly throwing to the jump ball or dropping a ball over a defender.

I could see a week on reworking the running game and tackling animations.

1. There is a lot of reworking animations that needs to be done here, some need removed and some added especially in tackles and stiffarms.

2. Making agility and acceleration come into play when running and making cuts.

3. The ability to push the pile, they said it was in there but I am just not feeling it. It needs to be there.

4. Reworking how defenders attack the run. Straight ahead between the tackles runs should not be stopped in the backfield with the exceptions of extrodinary plays by dlinemen and linebackers which should be rare. A solid strong back should be able to force you to move an extra man into the box to stop the running game. Outside runs shouldn't be stuffed by corners in the backfield. Most corners have to stick with their receivers to closely to be able to step up and be a dominant and consistant force stopping the run. There are certainally more things that belong here but I can't think of them now.

OLine/Dline Interaction is a huge thing and could definitally cover 2 weeks. One for pass blocking/pass rushing and one for run blocking/run defending.

This really doesn't need explanation as it has been discussed in several threads, probably more than any other topic besides presentation.

Special Teams although not a huge topic of discussion is also really in need of some reworking. Franchise mode will definitally cover a couple weeks and maybe more.

# 140 RGiles36 @ 03/03/09 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcarr


	3. The ability to push the pile, they said it was in there but I am just not feeling it. It needs to be there.

Truth! I hope Ian took heed to this several months ago. I made a thread about how there needs to be collision animations for players on the same team. I know the emphasis is on player control, but I don't have a problem with the CPU stepping in for animations that keep the immersion going. I loved this in NFL2K5: ball carriers squeezing between blockers, pushing the lineman, colliding and being knocked backwards, etc.

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