News Post

Association Mode 2.0: A Jewel Still in Need of Some Polish

10:53 AM - October 21, 2008 by RaychelSnr

Many NBA 2K fans were excited about the new Association 2.0 mode which was going to be included in the game. Does the mode pass our smell test? Check out Bryan Estrella's take and decide for yourself in the article: Association Mode 2.0: A Jewel Still In Need of Some Polish.

Quote:


	"I can�t believe it has been this long, but it really has been 10 years since the first NBA 2K was released for the Dreamcast. And ever since NBA 2K�s premier release, 2K Sports has become a yearly fixture on the video gaming map; constantly releasing critically acclaimed basketball games each fall. Sure there have been some bumps in the road (see: ESPN Basketball 2K4) but there is no doubt that Visual Concepts has nearly perfected the art of great basketball gameplay (maybe with some help from sliders of course)."

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# 1 Trevytrev11 @ 10/21/08 11:29 AM

As you kind of hit on, it would be nice for the game to promote it's new "stars" as the game goes on. Right now you have the Kobe's, Lebron's, etc. who are kind of the face of the league. It seems that as the years progress, the game could kind of promote the players in the game who feel these roles a little differently than they do the other players.

Right now, if Kobe drops 30 and Bonzi Wells drops 30, Kobe will get the headline. The game should do this as well. If it could "tag" it's superstar caliber players in the future, you might be more aware that Steve Stevenson in 2015 is what Lebron James is now to the game.

Once you move out of the curent players careers, the game kind of loses it's stardom. The game needs to find away to promote these stars so that in 2015, Steve Stevenson means more in the game than just a no name player.

Hopefully that makes sense.

# 2 Adarkin @ 10/21/08 11:51 AM

Great article. It make me want to leave work and start an association(slow day) I do have a question. Do you think that your hall of fame setting had something to do with your dissatisfied results? Would setting it on HoF make it tougher on your chosen team? I would think so. My thinking is that it would make it harder for your team to win game, fair well in trades and drafts. This would make your players morale and team chemistry go down. And create a cycle of disappointment. I would never play a new game on the high level of difficulty and expect anything other than a sound thrashing.

I hope you will continue you inspection of the Association with different variables such game setting, team and maybe even sliders and give post your results/findings

# 3 asu666 @ 10/21/08 11:56 AM

Goor read. My overall impression of 2K9 is that it is a solid step up in gameplay, a mixed bag graphically (2K8 didn't get muddied when looking down the court), and Association 2.0 is more like 1.5. I like how 2K brought more information up front and how the CBA details are now in the game. It just feels like the evolution should have been a little deeper to be fair in calling it 2.0.

# 4 Jukeman @ 10/21/08 12:44 PM

reason why ch2k8 is still the best on the market...they could atleast let us control every team like in NHL2k9 untill they FINALLY fix the problem,,,

# 5 DaoudS @ 10/21/08 01:10 PM

Great article, Bryan. I really hope 2K developers read this to know where franchise junkies are coming from.

# 6 SoxFan01605 @ 10/21/08 01:33 PM

Good article. I would say that you seemed to focus almost purely on the CPU logic when looking at the negatives though. I'm not saying they shouldn't be addressed, because they are definite issues.To me though, because of the overall control 2K gives you in the player management area, you can at least manually adjust for these errors. What you can't adjust for is omissions.

I would add to your breakdown a "mising/disappeared" section. If this is really association 2.0 I should be able to fully manage my staff, facilities, atmosphere, etc. Little things like price adjustments, equipment upgrades for the locker room (for morale, health, and training boosts) and the ability to build a coaching staff to guide your team to the top are sorely missing. Everything added to "upgrade" the association mode was just window dressing. It's a letdown because it only shows you just what could have been, rather than what is.

There are lots of things you could polish about player negotiations, trades etc. Imagine how much more depth would be added if you couldn't trade for the player you wanted because you have a poor relationship with his team's GM? Or if negotiations break down because the player feels the coaching staff doesn't suit him? Flesh out what you have, and add what you hint at. Then I might feel 2K really upgraded association mode. Maybe this is their plan...I hope so. Right now, this is really "Association 1.1" at most. Actually add some tangible feature before you claim franchise dominance. This mode, while good overall (I don't mean to imply it's bad, by any means) was grossly overhyped IMO.

# 7 htfdthewhale @ 10/21/08 02:01 PM

No new stars leading to diluted talent pools is probably the biggest problem facing franchise modes these days. CH2k8 did a decent job, but even with that game there was not enough balance of top recruits (all guards and undersized big men). In one Madden 2007 franchise I had a few years back, I had the highest ranked player in the league at every single position, without exception. And often times, the 2nd ranked player was a good 10 points lower. Just ridiculous. I hope developers start paying attention to stuff like this. Great article.

# 8 JDK @ 10/21/08 05:09 PM

I have been playing 2K9 and have noticed some of the things that were talked about relatively early in my Association. To solve the problem of the lack of future marquee stars, 2K should take a page out of the book of EA's NHL series. In the last couple of games, they added a feature where the top one or two prospects would be labelled as FRANCHISE (after being scouted), instead of them all being TOP 5. Some years were deeper than others, but these FRANCHISE labelled players would have a chance to become mid 90 rated players or even 99's, but the really special LeBrons would only come around every 5-10 years.

# 9 JBH3 @ 10/21/08 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoxFan01605


	Good article. I would say that you seemed to focus almost purely on the CPU logic when looking at the negatives though. I'm not saying they shouldn't be addressed, because they are definite issues.To me though, because of the overall control 2K gives you in the player management area, you can at least manually adjust for these errors. What you can't adjust for is omissions. I would add to your breakdown a "mising/disappeared" section. If this is really association 2.0 I should be able to fully manage my staff, facilities, atmosphere, etc. Little things like price adjustments, equipment upgrades for the locker room (for morale, health, and training boosts) and the ability to build a coaching staff to guide your team to the top are sorely missing. Everything added to "upgrade" the association mode was just window dressing. It's a letdown because it only shows you just what could have been, rather than what is. There are lots of things you could polish about player negotiations, trades etc. Imagine how much more depth would be added if you couldn't trade for the player you wanted because you have a poor relationship with his team's GM? Or if negotiations break down because the player feels the coaching staff doesn't suit him? Flesh out what you have, and add what you hint at. Then I might feel 2K really upgraded association mode. Maybe this is their plan...I hope so. Right now, this is really "Association 1.1" at most. Actually add some tangible feature before you claim franchise dominance. This mode, while good overall (I don't mean to imply it's bad, by any means) was grossly overhyped IMO.

You're right on w/ this post. I agree that assoc. 2.0 is merely 1.1, or what 2K did to MLB 2K8...Make the menus look sleeker, but not add much more in terms of tangible franchise options (like adding cards, ugh).

I too would like to see them flesh out what already exists, and add to the financial aspects of the game.

Other than the new menu system, the player/team records, and changing the development drills around I don't really know what else was improved in association mode. It was over-hyped, but its still the arguably the best franchise mode out there...I guess The Show is another consideration.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDK


	I have been playing 2K9 and have noticed some of the things that were talked about relatively early in my Association. To solve the problem of the lack of future marquee stars, 2K should take a page out of the book of EA's NHL series. In the last couple of games, they added a feature where the top one or two prospects would be labelled as FRANCHISE (after being scouted), instead of them all being TOP 5. Some years were deeper than others, but these FRANCHISE labelled players would have a chance to become mid 90 rated players or even 99's, but the really special LeBrons would only come around every 5-10 years.

I love that idea...Thats awesome that an NHL game does that. That would be a welcomed feature.

# 10 Pared @ 10/21/08 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htfdthewhale


	No new stars leading to diluted talent pools is probably the biggest problem facing franchise modes these days. CH2k8 did a decent job, but even with that game there was not enough balance of top recruits (all guards and undersized big men). In one Madden 2007 franchise I had a few years back, I had the highest ranked player in the league at every single position, without exception. And often times, the 2nd ranked player was a good 10 points lower. Just ridiculous. I hope developers start paying attention to stuff like this. Great article.

Absolutely. Great post.

# 11 500bloc @ 10/21/08 06:35 PM

This thread needs to be sticked. Or atleast the article. It makes no sense after all these years that they still haven't gotten their Franchise Mode right and if they used the same formula u did, simming for 15 years, then they would know where they go wrong at.

# 12 RapboY @ 10/21/08 06:39 PM

very good article.. i myself have played through a lot of seasons already.. and just to add, another one of the problems is that players dont decline as easily.. like kg and td were still around 90 when they were already 40..

# 13 rrenn001 @ 10/21/08 08:34 PM

This is a great article. I too used to play those text-sim games and loved the realistic outcomes and watching great ai in progess. My blog http://nba2kwishlist.blogspot.com/ also goes into many of the features I want to see in the 2k series. My wishes are with the modes inside association, but you are right...it's whats under the hood that makes it standout from a sim perspective. If you can't rely on the AI for your team management, how can you rely on it to give you (sim) years of opponent team mgmt with high enough quality to be believable and reliable. I don't want to spend hours managing my team, scouting players and then find a loop hole where the computer fails to resign a "franchise" player. Or better yet, if you are trying to rebuild with the draft, you can't find a franchise player, build his stats too quick to be believable or steal one away from a poor ai's team managment. For most games i think over the past years, its all about "looks first" then depth second. Sounds like my past relationships. Anyway, take a look at my blog, make commments and together with awsome articles like this, we can make association the best it can be...

# 14 edubbs @ 10/21/08 10:48 PM

For those who have started a season already, is progressive fatigue still in the game?

For example, in previous years you had to manage your players minutes during back to back games and 4 games in 5 nights type scenarios.

This was my favorite feature while playing season mode, it really made you watch the calendar.

I hope it's still in this year.

# 15 Hassan Darkside @ 10/22/08 02:22 AM

Great article and hopefully game developers will take heed of what you wrote. Honestly, I never made it that far in any franchise/dynasty mode. The longest I've made it is three seasons but I tend to lose interest or want to start over with a different team. But if the GM AI is that bad in dynasties then I'm content with my poor habits until it gets remedied. Or at least I have an excuse.

# 16 Rhymologist @ 10/22/08 02:39 AM

Ya, this is a very good article.. I like the fact that you didnt just put VC down like that. You gave them credit for improvement and gave them some pointers. I pray they improve. 2k is the only game that i buy and play, so i hoep the best for it. From glory to glory they shall go.

*WhaWhoM*

# 17 bubs3141 @ 10/22/08 06:30 PM

I am trying to decide if I should buy this game. Is the association better then the live series dynasty? I am really trying to find out what people think.

# 18 SoxFan01605 @ 10/22/08 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edubbs


	For those who have started a season already, is progressive fatigue still in the game? For example, in previous years you had to manage your players minutes during back to back games and 4 games in 5 nights type scenarios. This was my favorite feature while playing season mode, it really made you watch the calendar. I hope it's still in this year.

Yup...still in there

# 19 neuroticomic @ 10/31/08 01:55 AM

how bout a dynasty review?

# 20 DC @ 01/03/09 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 500bloc


	This thread needs to be sticked. Or atleast the article. It makes no sense after all these years that they still haven't gotten their Franchise Mode right and if they used the same formula u did, simming for 15 years, then they would know where they go wrong at.

This needs to be re-read

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