News Post

Man-to-Man Coverage The Key to Stopping the AI QB in NCAA 09

03:19 PM - August 5, 2008 by RaychelSnr

Are you one of the many thousands of NCAA gamers who can't seem to stop the AI offense no matter what the circumstances? Our very own Executive Editor Dave Branda might have discovered a way to possibly get a few stops against the AI offense. Check out his article, Man-to-Man Coverage The Key to Stopping the AI QB in NCAA 09.

Quote:


	"After doing some some reading in the Operation Sports and MaddenMania forums recently, I had a bit of an epiphany. Thanks in part to my revelation, my Michigan defense "clicked" into place and I absolutely demolished a computer controlled Wisconsin at The Big House, something which was not happening up until that time."

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Member Comments

# 21 rhombic21 @ 08/05/08 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlyGilmore


	As for versus online opponents - the number one thing is always going to be mixing up your playcalling and keeping your opponent guessing. IMO way to many folks spend oodles of time worrying and practing their offense but completely neglect their defense.

Mixing up zone defenses only works if the zones guard the areas that they're supposed to guard.

Otherwise you get stuff like this:

http://files.filefront.com/PassDFrus.../fileinfo.html

Same pass play, all game. Nothing I could do to stop him from completing underneath routes, regardless of coverage.

# 22 sportyguyfl31 @ 08/05/08 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoncold32


	No one is bashing, but this is simply a workaround to a issue that should not be there in the first palce. Why do we even have other defensive sets in the game if man is the only thing we should play in?

I agree.

I do not want to be pigeon holed into playing the game ONE way.

I enjoy playing defense much more then offense because I like being creative in how I attack an offense.

I like to vary my looks constantly and I like to get creative with 1 or 2 hot adjustments.

What the article is saying isnt wrong..it works in the realm of this video game, but it is hardly realistic.

You simply do not see very many teams play man coverage 70-80% Often.

It requires a TON of talent to do, and teams that do play like this, do so when they are very confident that they have a physical advantage across the board.

Miami and FSU were renowned for doing this back in their hey-days. They would line up right in front of your recievers, and dare you to beat them, because they were churning out 1st round draft pick DB personnel year after year.

# 23 Bumble14 @ 08/05/08 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sportyguyfl31


	The only issue I have with this, is that it seems more like a work around, then anything strategic, in order to play reasonable pass defense. I have a real problem with the idea of having to junk 30-50% of the defensive playbook simply to get this to happen. I'd rather use a good set of sliders that help create more realistic results, and use all of the defensive plays in my arsenal, rather then play like this.

How is it a work around? Shouldn't you expect the cpu to tear you up if you are playing in a soft zone and they are spreading the field? This is the kind of reasoning I don't get- I honestly think you guys never played football in your lives, let alone understand how defensive sets are called.

In high school our team would play an entire game in man to man if the opposing team was the type that loved to throw the ball around. We had speedy corners and linebackers, so we were able to do this. Looking back on it actually, I'm not sure we ever really relied on a zone heavy scheme- I'm not really sure of any team that really loves to play zone exclusively.

This game forces you to mix up coverages A LOT! You can't play man bump and run all game because they will eventually burn you deep. You can't play simple man all game because they will start running all over you or hit someone deep over the midde. You can't play in a qb spy all day because they will figure out a way to screw the players in the spy. You can't blitz all day because they will patch up the side you are going after (cpu uses slide protect too). Basically you need to mix things up a lot, and confuse the cpu.

The game has issues, but a lot of you are moaning and groaning like you expect everything you have used in past games to work this year. Just because you have been good at playing d in past football video games does not mean what you are doing is correct, or fundamentally sound in actual football. This game has the most realistic defensive recognition ai of any game I've played, and I think it's awesome that the cpu will pick me apart because I overused a zone, or blitzed a cb and got burned.

Again, the game has some issues, but for the most part if you follow this article and understand where it is coming from, you will be ok. I find it req=warding to play defense this year.

# 24 sportyguyfl31 @ 08/05/08 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlyGilmore


	this is one of the problems IMO. folks have no idea what realistic is and are basing things on what they perceive to be realistic not what really is. Folks are used to playing games for years and getting 5 sacks a game. Personally I never put a ton of emphasis on getting sacks. Instead i'm more worried about hurrying the QB and making him throw the ball before he wants to - especially against human opponents.

I agree with that 100%. Sacks blow hot and cold like all stats do.

What's important is disruption, disrupting rythm, and dictating to the offense.

# 25 rhombic21 @ 08/05/08 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bumble14


	How is it a work around? Shouldn't you expect the cpu to tear you up if you are playing in a soft zone and they are spreading the field? This is the kind of reasoning I don't get- I honestly think you guys never played football in your lives, let alone understand how defensive sets are called. In high school our team would play an entire game in man to man if the opposing team was the type that loved to throw the ball around. We had speedy corners and linebackers, so we were able to do this. Looking back on it actually, I'm not sure we ever really relied on a zone heavy scheme- I'm not really sure of any team that really loves to play zone exclusively.

Haha, that's hilariously wrong. In real life, nobody plays man to man against teams like Texas Tech all game, because you're just asking to get raped on crossing routes, and their 4th WR is probably better than your 4th CB.

Most people defend the spread in real life by playing zone coverage and forcing the offense to work their way down the field. The problem is that on the game, every QB is ridiculously accurate and WRs never drop passes, plus your front 4 gets almost no pressure, so even mediocre offenses can do just that everytime out.

I can tell you that OU probably plays man to man defense less than 1/3 of the time, particularly in conference play when we face spread offenses.

# 26 muggins @ 08/05/08 05:01 PM

The problem with man to man is that the wide receivers will almost always beat their man across the field on short routes. It is really easy to go down the field for 5-10 yard routes underneath vs man to man.

# 27 cardinalbird5 @ 08/05/08 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bumble14


	How is it a work around? Shouldn't you expect the cpu to tear you up if you are playing in a soft zone and they are spreading the field? This is the kind of reasoning I don't get- I honestly think you guys never played football in your lives, let alone understand how defensive sets are called. In high school our team would play an entire game in man to man if the opposing team was the type that loved to throw the ball around. We had speedy corners and linebackers, so we were able to do this. Looking back on it actually, I'm not sure we ever really relied on a zone heavy scheme- I'm not really sure of any team that really loves to play zone exclusively. This game forces you to mix up coverages A LOT! You can't play man bump and run all game because they will eventually burn you deep. You can't play simple man all game because they will start running all over you or hit someone deep over the midde. You can't play in a qb spy all day because they will figure out a way to screw the players in the spy. You can't blitz all day because they will patch up the side you are going after (cpu uses slide protect too). Basically you need to mix things up a lot, and confuse the cpu. The game has issues, but a lot of you are moaning and groaning like you expect everything you have used in past games to work this year. Just because you have been good at playing d in past football video games does not mean what you are doing is correct, or fundamentally sound in actual football. This game has the most realistic defensive recognition ai of any game I've played, and I think it's awesome that the cpu will pick me apart because I overused a zone, or blitzed a cb and got burned. Again, the game has some issues, but for the most part if you follow this article and understand where it is coming from, you will be ok. I find it req=warding to play defense this year.

Doesn't sound like you know much about football in your previous post.....What you just said is way wrong.

# 28 Bumble14 @ 08/05/08 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhombic21


	Haha, that's hilariously wrong. In real life, nobody plays man to man against teams like Texas Tech all game, because you're just asking to get raped on crossing routes, and their 4th WR is probably better than your 4th CB. Most people defend the spread in real life by playing zone coverage and forcing the offense to work their way down the field. The problem is that on the game, every QB is ridiculously accurate and WRs never drop passes, plus your front 4 gets almost no pressure, so even mediocre offenses can do just that everytime out. I can tell you that OU probably plays man to man defense less than 1/3 of the time, particularly in conference play when we face spread offenses.

Playing zone against a spread offense allows a team to nickle and dime it's way down the field against you. Playing man with fast db's and lb's allows a team to double cover players and keep up with them. The reason most teams play zone against spread offenses is because their defense tires out by running around all day with the WR's.

Maybe if Oklahoma was playing man against Boise they would have won the game? hehe (had to take that shot). Bust seriously, do hook and ladders work if you are playing man?

# 29 capp34 @ 08/05/08 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoncold32


	No one is bashing, but this is simply a workaround to a issue that should not be there in the first palce. Why do we even have other defensive sets in the game if man is the only thing we should play in?

Strategy is not a work around. If you play the game for what is and not what you want it to be.

I should not have to pay 4.00 dollars for a gallon gas but if I want to get to work everyday I got to.

# 30 Bumble14 @ 08/05/08 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardinalbird7


	Doesn't sound like you know much about football in your previous post.....What you just said is way wrong.

It's not way wrong, it's not way right. Everyone has different defensive philosophies. I played free safety through 4 years of high school, and we had a pretty small team that was fast. We relied on man coverage against spread offenses because we were able to cover the receivers and eliminate the threat of a dump off to a running back. This was a successful strategy for us because we didn't get nit picked down the field by teams- we were able to stop the short stuff with our DE's and LB's, and take the deep ball away. So how is that way wrong?

Zone is a great defense to use in certain situations, but if your main concern is a team dinking and dunking down the field with 5 yard dump offs, then the best way to counter that is with man coverage and LB zones to take away the middle of the field.

Again, there is no correct, or incorrect defensive philosophy- it is just what works for a certain team- you have to adapt- and this game makes you.

# 31 cbc72 @ 08/05/08 05:10 PM

Interesting.

Especially given the Devs were saying "This is the year of the Zone," before the game was released.

They were telling people man would hardly be worth calling because it would work so poorly for the defense, given the new speed curve.

# 32 Jistic @ 08/05/08 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bumble14


	This game forces you to mix up coverages A LOT! You can't play man bump and run all game because they will eventually burn you deep. You can't play simple man all game because they will start running all over you or hit someone deep over the midde. You can't play in a qb spy all day because they will figure out a way to screw the players in the spy. You can't blitz all day because they will patch up the side you are going after (cpu uses slide protect too). Basically you need to mix things up a lot, and confuse the cpu.

Adam said the CPU doesn't adjust to the game that you call and that it just calls plays. It's in another thread that I can't dig up right now, but maybe someone else knows off the top of their head.

# 33 rhombic21 @ 08/05/08 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bumble14


	Playing zone against a spread offense allows a team to nickle and dime it's way down the field against you. Playing man with fast db's and lb's allows a team to double cover players and keep up with them. The reason most teams play zone against spread offenses is because their defense tires out by running around all day with the WR's. Maybe if Oklahoma was playing man against Boise they would have won the game? hehe (had to take that shot). Bust seriously, do hook and ladders work if you are playing man?

Hilarious. Boise isn't even a spread offense, but whatever.

Almost nobody in college football plays man to man against spread offenses. Very few teams have the athletes to pull it off consistently, and as you mentioned, almost nobody has the athletes to do it all game.

You're right that you allow people to nickel and dime on you, but the difference is that very few teams in real life are consistent enough in the passing game to be able to do it all game. Most of the time their drives will eventually stall out because of a penalty, sack, drop, errant throw, or because the QB makes a bad read and throws a pick.

# 34 NE_Passat'n @ 08/05/08 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capp34


	GREAT ARTICLE....I have been saying this all along. I have always played majority man and I only recruit man corners. Now let the bashing begin from the people who refuse to play like this.

What do you look for in a man corner vs a zone quarter when it comes to recruiting?

# 35 cardinalbird5 @ 08/05/08 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bumble14


	It's not way wrong, it's not way right. Everyone has different defensive philosophies. I played free safety through 4 years of high school, and we had a pretty small team that was fast. We relied on man coverage against spread offenses because we were able to cover the receivers and eliminate the threat of a dump off to a running back. This was a successful strategy for us because we didn't get nit picked down the field by teams- we were able to stop the short stuff with our DE's and LB's, and take the deep ball away. So how is that way wrong? Zone is a great defense to use in certain situations, but if your main concern is a team dinking and dunking down the field with 5 yard dump offs, then the best way to counter that is with man coverage and LB zones to take away the middle of the field. Again, there is no correct, or incorrect defensive philosophy- it is just what works for a certain team- you have to adapt- and this game makes you.

That makes more sense and I agree with that, but I think you give EA too much credit. Defense doesn't seem rewarding. I play 2 man under majority of the game and it works best. I'll try to disguise a blitz maybe once or twice a game and the QB doesn't seem surprised at all. I usually only play zone in the red zone.

Of course, online is totally different. I find myself playing a lot more zone and doing more zone blitzes. Man seems useless online, unless you are in a Dime with a fast linebacker covering the HB. But then they can run it on you, even though most of them aren't smart enough to.

# 36 cbc72 @ 08/05/08 05:16 PM

Also, for people saying "the computer will learn and pick you apart.."

No. The devs have said the AI is not adaptive and chooses plays based on down and distance. The CPU does NOT choose plays based on your play calling tendencies.

# 37 stoncold32 @ 08/05/08 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bumble14


	How is it a work around? Shouldn't you expect the cpu to tear you up if you are playing in a soft zone and they are spreading the field? This is the kind of reasoning I don't get- I honestly think you guys never played football in your lives, let alone understand how defensive sets are called. In high school our team would play an entire game in man to man if the opposing team was the type that loved to throw the ball around. We had speedy corners and linebackers, so we were able to do this. Looking back on it actually, I'm not sure we ever really relied on a zone heavy scheme- I'm not really sure of any team that really loves to play zone exclusively. This game forces you to mix up coverages A LOT! You can't play man bump and run all game because they will eventually burn you deep. You can't play simple man all game because they will start running all over you or hit someone deep over the midde. You can't play in a qb spy all day because they will figure out a way to screw the players in the spy. You can't blitz all day because they will patch up the side you are going after (cpu uses slide protect too). Basically you need to mix things up a lot, and confuse the cpu. The game has issues, but a lot of you are moaning and groaning like you expect everything you have used in past games to work this year. Just because you have been good at playing d in past football video games does not mean what you are doing is correct, or fundamentally sound in actual football. This game has the most realistic defensive recognition ai of any game I've played, and I think it's awesome that the cpu will pick me apart because I overused a zone, or blitzed a cb and got burned. Again, the game has some issues, but for the most part if you follow this article and understand where it is coming from, you will be ok. I find it req=warding to play defense this year.

Yeah but in this game, it doesnt matter if you're playing again Nebraska or against Hawaii, you still would have to play man against either b/c the CPU completes too many passes. I ahvent tried these tips yet, but I KNOW I have played PLENTY of man on 3rd downs and all the CPU does is run a dig route, or a slant and get one yard beyond the required first down spot.

Theres really no such thing as confusing the CPU on this game. THey know what you're calling, you can Hot Route and fake a blitz to throw them off, but often times you have no time to adjust before the ball is snapped.

Another gripe I have is that when you try to jump to deflect a pass with a LB, they usually don't react when you press the jump button, they react after the pass hasw flew over their heads.

# 38 Computalover @ 08/05/08 05:18 PM

I have found this year game more challenging that previous years. I dont think its a glitch per say.. and im not ruling it out. but i found that knowing your personnel also helps as well as effective play calling. I noticed that players with overall high numbers, but lower AWARENESS numbers tend not to react as fast this year. I have players with higher AWR numbers playing in key positions i.e. MLB because i noticed that the starting LB tend to bite on fakes and counters and try to blitz when he is supposed to cover the middle to try to prevent the cross route and TE / RB short passes.

I also try to do this for DB positions, but sometimes the smarter DB's tend not to be the FASTER DB's lol. Also i see fatigue setting in alot sooner than last year for me to.

Not saying this game is perfect.. but it has made me switch up what i did in past years version. which can be a good thing..

but thats just me..

# 39 stoncold32 @ 08/05/08 05:30 PM

All I know is covering dig routes is not possible even if you double a WR with a CB and a Safety. They simply don't play close enough on the WR to stop the catch.

Occasionally a LB will be in the right spot to jump up and knock it down, but thats your only hope

# 40 J-Unit40 @ 08/05/08 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fistofrage


	Aren't the zone issues supposed to be fixed in the 2nd patch?

You know it. Thankfully they will be.

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