You can’t block strikes on the clinch break?

[Good Grappler]

Just played ranked for like 4th time since the game came out. This dude single collar tied me non stop, threw two knees, then landed an unblockable uppercut on the break. Every damn time.

Eventually the uppercut started rocking me, and again, since it‘S unblockable, I couldn’t do **** about it.

Eventually I ended up against the cage, where he rocked me to the body with the unblockable cage clinch knee.

Again, the cage clinch knee is unblockable. So I ended up in an approximately 2 minute loop of unblockable cage knee —-> knock down —-> automatic recover back to the same cage clinch position ——> unblockable knee -> knockdown -> auto recover to same clinch position. At no point was there any opportunity to break this cycle, as it was all completely automatic. I have no control over whether I recover tp the cage position, and from there, the cage knee is unblockable.

Is this really the **** show this game is online right now? I know I haven’t played much, but seriously, this is not a meta I want anything to do with. Hands down the cheesiest **** I’ve ever seen in an MMA game, worse than the unblockable hammerfists from SC in UFC 1, or the posture up/down from mount glitch in UFC 1. This is just absurd.

Devs, any comments on when this will be fixed?

[Evil97]

You have options.

1. After the patch, you can now dish out tons of damage as the sub guy. Stand your ground, block the two knees and then wail at their head. Keep it up and they will be forced to block (which breaks the clinch) or go for a takedown (which can be reacted to). People are catching on and are now throwing 2 knees and disengaging or immediately going for the throw.

2. The knees against the cage don't need to be blocked. Simply walk toward the side with the under hook and you will slip out the second they throw the knee. Holding this direction also denies the back take.


Sent from my SM-N960U using Operation Sports mobile app

[rabbitfistssaipailo]

Quote: Originally Posted by Evil97

You have options. 1. After the patch, you can now dish out tons of damage as the sub guy. Stand your ground, block the two knees and then wail at their head. Keep it up and they will be forced to block (which breaks the clinch) or go for a takedown (which can be reacted to). People are catching on and are now throwing 2 knees and disengaging or immediately going for the throw. 2. The knees against the cage don't need to be blocked. Simply walk toward the side with the under hook and you will slip out the second they throw the knee. Holding this direction also denies the back take. Sent from my SM-N960U using Operation Sports mobile app

If I may add when you are up against the cage grab an underhook to prevent knees , hold R2 to defend punched momentarily ( bicep control ) and dish out knees of your own .

I don't think you can escape taking damage against the cage at all times . Especially when you factor in input delay and health .

But like the man said stand your ground block two knees and wail on their heads but be careful , you want to establish this early on to deter the clinch gods.

Sent from my Infinix X604 using Operation Sports mobile app

[Good Grappler]

Quote: Originally Posted by Evil97

You have options. 1. After the patch, you can now dish out tons of damage as the sub guy. Stand your ground, block the two knees and then wail at their head. Keep it up and they will be forced to block (which breaks the clinch) or go for a takedown (which can be reacted to). People are catching on and are now throwing 2 knees and disengaging or immediately going for the throw. 2. The knees against the cage don't need to be blocked. Simply walk toward the side with the under hook and you will slip out the second they throw the knee. Holding this direction also denies the back take. Sent from my SM-N960U using Operation Sports mobile app

Interesting. So

1. If I stand my ground, or push into them, they can’t land the free strike while disengaging? And why is it two knees I need to block before punching? Is that just the magic number, or are the first two knees the most powerful?

2. I know they don’t need to be blocked, and I know I slip out by pressing a certain direction in the clinch. But I thought you still have to eat one (or sometimes two) knee before you slip out? You’re telling me that if I press the stick towards the underhook, I break out before the knee lands?

If I’m understanding you regarding both of the above then OK, game’s not as much of a mess as I thought. But the clinch is still super wack, with the inability to transition or shoot TDs as the sub clinch fighter, and the fact that ANY unblockable strikes exist during backwards disengage - regardless of whether there are strategic alternatives.

I mean at the very least, the unblockable strike needs to be patched out, and the sub fighter needs at least 2 or 3 more strategic options from the submissive clinch position. For starters, knees from dom clinch should be far less damaging, as they’re rarely game changers in actual fights. Whilst the sub fighter’s punching should be like 3x harder, as they arguably are in a position to generate more punching power (see Silva vs Weidman). Emphasis should be more on punching and jockeying for position, as opposed to thoughtlessly throwing two knees. Hate the way it feels right now. I’m picking Askren, then basically fighting like Wanderlei because the arcadey meta demands it.

[Zyaf]

Quote: Originally Posted by Good Grappler

Interesting. So 1. If I stand my ground, or push into them, they can’t land the free strike while disengaging? And why is it two knees I need to block before punching? Is that just the magic number, or are the first two knees the most powerful? 2. I know they don’t need to be blocked, and I know I slip out by pressing a certain direction in the clinch. But I thought you still have to eat one (or sometimes two) knee before you slip out? You’re telling me that if I press the stick towards the underhook, I break out before the knee lands? If I’m understanding you regarding both of the above then OK, game’s not as much of a mess as I thought. But the clinch is still super wack, with the inability to transition or shoot TDs as the sub clinch fighter, and the fact that ANY unblockable strikes exist during backwards disengage - regardless of whether there are strategic alternatives. I mean at the very least, the unblockable strike needs to be patched out, and the sub fighter needs at least 2 or 3 more strategic options from the submissive clinch position. For starters, knees from dom clinch should be far less damaging, as they’re rarely game changers in actual fights. Whilst the sub fighter’s punching should be like 3x harder, as they arguably are in a position to generate more punching power (see Silva vs Weidman). Emphasis should be more on punching and jockeying for position, as opposed to thoughtlessly throwing two knees. Hate the way it feels right now. I’m picking Askren, then basically fighting like Wanderlei because the arcadey meta demands it.

1. Yes, you are correct they cannot land the free strike while disengaging. They are landing the free strike because you are disengaging, if you press into them they will be forced to stalemate you or disengage themselves. The two knees is just because if you try to punch after blocking 1, the second knee will land before your punch does and we all know how much damage that is going to deal.
2. Yes, if you press into your overhook whilst your opponent throws a knee, you will use a whizzer escape to escape from the knee before it occurs. Keep in mind that you cannot do this whilst blocking, so you could eat punches to the head. You have to read your opponent and which strikes they are throwing.
Thirdly, you can transition to single under DOM as the submissive fighter using R1+Square (RB+X if Xbox) from both single collar SUB and over under SUB. If you do this while the opponent is throwing a strike, the clinch will break. If you do it before, you will get single under DOM.

[Evil97]

Quote: Originally Posted by Zyaf

1. Yes, you are correct they cannot land the free strike while disengaging. They are landing the free strike because you are disengaging, if you press into them they will be forced to stalemate you or disengage themselves. The two knees is just because if you try to punch after blocking 1, the second knee will land before your punch does and we all know how much damage that is going to deal. 2. Yes, if you press into your overhook whilst your opponent throws a knee, you will use a whizzer escape to escape from the knee before it occurs. Keep in mind that you cannot do this whilst blocking, so you could eat punches to the head. You have to read your opponent and which strikes they are throwing. Thirdly, you can transition to single under DOM as the submissive fighter using R1+Square (RB+X if Xbox) from both single collar SUB and over under SUB. If you do this while the opponent is throwing a strike, the clinch will break. If you do it before, you will get single under DOM.

This. Thank you Zyaf.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Operation Sports mobile app

[Good Grappler]

Quote: Originally Posted by Zyaf

1. Yes, you are correct they cannot land the free strike while disengaging. They are landing the free strike because you are disengaging, if you press into them they will be forced to stalemate you or disengage themselves. The two knees is just because if you try to punch after blocking 1, the second knee will land before your punch does and we all know how much damage that is going to deal. 2. Yes, if you press into your overhook whilst your opponent throws a knee, you will use a whizzer escape to escape from the knee before it occurs. Keep in mind that you cannot do this whilst blocking, so you could eat punches to the head. You have to read your opponent and which strikes they are throwing. Thirdly, you can transition to single under DOM as the submissive fighter using R1+Square (RB+X if Xbox) from both single collar SUB and over under SUB. If you do this while the opponent is throwing a strike, the clinch will break. If you do it before, you will get single under DOM.

Wow thanks for all this. Bunch of stuff here I didn’t know. Was this all in a patch note or something, or did you just learn from playing? The detail about not blocking while wizzering free from the knee against the cage is great to know, don’t think I’d have ever figured that out.

So just a few more questions:

1. So against the cage - assuming my opponent is only throwing body knees - I shouldn’t press block at all? Just press the stick towards the underhook, and I get free as soon as they knee? Interesting.

2. Against the cage, is there any reason to press the stick the OTHER direction (away from the underhook)? Seems like pressing it towards the underhook is the only productive direction as it prevents knees AND stops them from taking your back. I’m guessing it’s to escape when your opponent isn’t kneeing, but I’ll let you answer.

3. Biggest question I have. About transitioning from SUB single collar/over under. I know this is possible, and I know it can be done if your opponent isn’t attacking, or if they’re just throwing punches. But I thought if your opponent clinches and throws a knee immediately, the knee takes priority over your transition. Are you saying that if they throw a knee while I transition, the clinch breaks immediately? Is this new, or am I misunderstanding? Because again, I thought the knee beats the transition of the SUB fighter.

4. Another question while I’m here and talking to someone knowledgeable. Sometimes I get backpack position on my opponent, and they escape immediately. How do you escape backpack? The only option I know of from SUB backpack is to immediately press B (or O on PS4), to slam them backwards and end up in backsitting. But I see people escape back to standing, or even sometimes slam me down and reverse into my guard. How are these things done? I know it’s probably super obvious but I just haven’t had the “mat time” to figure these things out yet.

[Zyaf]

Quote: Originally Posted by Good Grappler

Wow thanks for all this. Bunch of stuff here I didn’t know. Was this all in a patch note or something, or did you just learn from playing? The detail about not blocking while wizzering free from the knee against the cage is great to know, don’t think I’d have ever figured that out. So just a few more questions: 1. So against the cage - assuming my opponent is only throwing body knees - I shouldn’t press block at all? Just press the stick towards the underhook, and I get free as soon as they knee? Interesting. 2. Against the cage, is there any reason to press the stick the OTHER direction (away from the underhook)? Seems like pressing it towards the underhook is the only productive direction as it prevents knees AND stops them from taking your back. I’m guessing it’s to escape when your opponent isn’t kneeing, but I’ll let you answer. 3. Biggest question I have. About transitioning from SUB single collar/over under. I know this is possible, and I know it can be done if your opponent isn’t attacking, or if they’re just throwing punches. But I thought if your opponent clinches and throws a knee immediately, the knee takes priority over your transition. Are you saying that if they throw a knee while I transition, the clinch breaks immediately? Is this new, or am I misunderstanding? Because again, I thought the knee beats the transition of the SUB fighter. 4. Another question while I’m here and talking to someone knowledgeable. Sometimes I get backpack position on my opponent, and they escape immediately. How do you escape backpack? The only option I know of from SUB backpack is to immediately press B (or O on PS4), to slam them backwards and end up in backsitting. But I see people escape back to standing, or even sometimes slam me down and reverse into my guard. How are these things done? I know it’s probably super obvious but I just haven’t had the “mat time” to figure these things out yet.

1. You are correct, yes.
2. Yes there is, you can block while you move towards the other side. You have to hold towards the other side, so you can block head and body punches as well as head knees and gradually escape.

3. If your opponent throws a strike whilst you try to transition, the strike will interrupt your transition and your transition will interrupt their strike, causing a stalemate and the clinch will automatically break.
4. If they deny the backpack, they can push away from you to instantly break. As well as that, if they get the break at the same time that you attempt the backpack, you two will separate. The reversal is when they have a significant short term stamina advantage, they can press B and slam you and reverse you into full guard.


I've recently helped UFC 4 Tips and Tricks with the creation of some clinch tip videos, so most of the tips here are mine and you may find them useful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7w2rFfff8U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zG4qHM2cls (Premieres in 2 hours)