Presentation

[hrudey32]

One of the things I wanted to discuss was presentation in the newest NHL 20 and other hockey games. Back in the day, I was kinda all about sliders and tweaking the games to be as realistic as possible. I still am and miss the days of NHL Champ 2000 and Powerplay were the game felt right out of the box. But realistic and esp pacing is subjective so I appreciate the tuning. But I also think one of the aspects I really get is a good presentation in hockey games.

Let me preface by saying I don't have 20 yet but I have watched a lot of videos thus far. The presentation here is just not good. At least not for the serious hockey fan who enjoys a tv style presentation.

The new 20 presentation is what is. You guys have all heard it. It was cried Doc and Eddie were boring and yeah I can see it getting stale a bit but they went the other way and now it is annoyingly over the top with Cybulski.

Cybulski has way more lines than Doc but sounds way more repetitive. Here's my take as to why. Nearly everything he says...like seriously a lot of what he says....during pbp is 5-7 words, same cadence, same pitch. "Buffalo shoots the puck into the zone". Most every line is with the cadence/pitch of "high-high-high-high-high-high-low". 5-7 words. It grows really old really quick. Ray sounds fine as he interjects more of a conversational sound to his lines. Then again he has much less lines. Cybulski's lines are too much of the same cadence, same pitch, same tone and man, it is aggravating. I hope they can get him to record more lines and tone it down a lot and make it sound less repetitive in cadence.

I know this is nothing new but it is real disappointing that you can tel that a lot of the 8 month development cycle went into presentation and this is what we ended up with which to me is a regression from 19. Yes, Doc and Eddie got old but at least it sounded like hockey. And no, the overlay stats were poorly done but the NBC packaging again, felt like a broadcast.

Whoever is in charge of this aspect needs some serious help. EA thinks that a good presentation is a replay at ever stoppage of play. Wrong. A big whoosh with the EA logo. Repeatedly. Sigh. Arcade style graphics you would see in a Midway game. Wth? This is 2020 (almost). EA should look to the past. Games like NHL Championship 2000 by Radical, 2K8's superb presentation package with tons of stats/pop ups/overlays. Those were two of the best. Perhaps the single best presentation in a hockey game is from the Faceoff/Gretzky series. Yes, the gameplay got too fast and arcade like but I still play the Faceoff/Gretzky series quite a bit for the superb camera angles, pop up overlays with tons of statistics and an amazing presentation. The camera cuts are so good in that series. Heck, in addition to a ton of pop up stats Faceoff/Gretzky even had a focus on coaches and great shots in the locker room post game.

Heck, if EA would just go back to NHL 04. At least it gave you nice readable pop up stats and gave them to you right at the stoppage of play. Now they just pop it up a mere seconds before the faceoff so you can't even digest it and enjoy it. That is a brutal decision. And it's been like that for years now. So weird no one understands this. This would not be a hard fix.

Hockey analytics and stats are such a great part of the sport. We need the night's lines, scratches, season pp/pk% and league ranking in each prior to the 1st special teams and the game's propr pp/pk results in subsequent special teams play, toi, pim, points in season/current game, losing streaks, a focus on how individual players are performing, anthems, coaches segments. Sure a replay now and then but how about shot charts, diagrams showing a team's breakout or movement on pp. So much could be done. Hell, just watch HNIC and mimic it.

Instead we get arcade big graphics ala Hitz (which I loved but not what I want in a "sim"), CONSTANT replays, annoying commentary with 80% spoke in same cadence and overbearingly forced to be "exciting" and a complete lack of pop up stats.

What was wrong with this look from NHL 04? Oh, I forgot. That was Blackbox in charge of that game. Why it was real good.

Don't get me wrong. I enjoy the skating a lot. I love the true broadcast camera which is a part of presentation. I like the way the shooting and passing feels and with the right sliders can get a very loose game of hockey that feels good. And being away from the series since like 13 I think I am less critical of the gameplay then some of you are cause it's still kinda fresh to me. But the defensive AI needs reworking and the presentation...well, I just wish I could be in charge. But don't we all wish we could have our two cents in.

Anyway, thoughts?

Pics of NHL 04's pop up stats. So much better than the very little we are given now.

Maybe everyone in the videos is skipping everything and it has tons of pop up stats but I kinda think it doesn't.

[Travolterjohn]

Sure this old Pop-up of stats are much better. Would like to see more of this and other statistics during the Game. The main fact is that EA should create better statistics for Player at all. It means a complete site not only with usual Player statistics, also with short Bios and Player descriptions, as well as Complete Trade History and for whom or what was traded. Also should be included a hot and cold streak, 5 Game statistics, Awards, Cup Rings and if willing for a trade. For example who needs this complete site of Player Morals ? This site from my meaning is complete uselessly. By the way, in this old Game Sundin has his real face. We have soon 2020 and EA is not able to get looking the most Players similar like they are.

[Peter_OS]

Yup way much better. No idea why EA hasn't implemented more stat overlays and popups like this during the game. Poor and lazy effort on their part. They just don't know how to make and present a good sports hockey game anymore.

[hrudey32]

Is there a way to give the developers input or does it just fall on deaf ears? I honestly don;t expect them to red o the defensive AI but something like adding overlay pop up stats like they had 15-20 years ago is something that could be done rather easily and should be done.

[Rhudey]

I agree with everything you said about the stat overlays, replays, etc. But I have to disagree about the commentary, I love Doc and Eddie in real life but in the game it was atrocious and they had to go. The same old lines over and over and no emotion whatsoever even if it was the Stanley Cup winning goal. I prefer the new commentary over the old even if it is a bit over the top at times. I never want to hear "and he passes geometrically" again in my life.

Going back to visuals, anyone else notice that a lot of the time there is a post goal group hug there are players from the other team getting caught in the middle of it. Looks ridiculous.

[boxers]

Completely fair criticism and agree. I'm in the minority and like Cybulski more than doc (in game, not IRL) but they really need to include a more diverse range of reactions in the commentary. I've said this before and I'll say it again: not everything is an intense, game changing moment -- sometimes a shot a shot is just a "shot" not a "SHOT!!!"

As for the overlays, this is a huge problem with the game. They highlight things like first goals and and scoring milestones but it is really disappointing when you can't even get a breakdown of the standings during the season.

The presentation is really strange in that, there are so many pauses where they show people on the bench for no reason -- it almost seems like overlays are intended be shown but just not appearing. In addition, I've seen them show where player ranks in "hits", so it seems like they have the architecture in the game to include more frequent/better overlays but, for whatever reason, they simply do not appear.

I understand that the NHL series works with fewer resources than other sports gaming franchises but it is weird to me why it seems they take many steps backwards only to take a few steps forward. When it comes to presentation, I still remember when they switched to NBCSN and wouldn't show season totals when a player scored a goal-- not sure we ever got an explanation on this one.

Anyway, totally fair points that you make and I hope they address them.

P.S. Why not change up the opening of the games, so it isn't always goalie stats? Maybe show us the national anthems every now and then.

[hrudey32]

Yeah, everyone pretty much agrees on the overlays. If any of you have Faceoff 2003 or Gretzky 05/06 for PS2 please fire it up and see how that 15 years ago it destroys NHL20 in presentation. You get anthems, starting lineups, goalie matchups, tons of pop up stats, highlights, camera shots and talking about each coach, season ranking of pp/pk% prior to each special teams. Plus you get locker room shots post game. It really is great.

And I can't imagine 989 or Page 44 had big budgets either. It's about choosing to prioritize. But man, I seriously play that game now and then just because the freakin presentation is so good. If you could just slow it down!! Lol.

Game makers do seem to be better about patching things and somewhat listening to their fan base and addressing things that they can that aren't too taxing on their time and resources. Somewhat. I've reached out to 2K in years past and in the MX communiity which is obviously a much more niche sport and gaming audience.

But where does the fan base post or correspond with EA about NHL? I actually sent Rammer the NHL 04 stat pic and he did like it so at least he acknowledged it. Prob doesn't mean much but I do think that there is hope to get smaller things like overlays fixed. As mentioned, it looks like it is in there to do but they just don;t do it much. Instead we have to have a replay of like everything that happens. Terrible.

[hrudey32]

Lord knows all games have their issues. Esp EA hockey games but I do believe there is a lot good here. I do think you have to accept it as a game that is masked as a sim but has too many arcade elements, not enough neutral zone play, really poor defensive AI, very suspect goalie movement, etc but honestly it is like politics. This is what we have so we can either fuss till they no longer even listen or we can try to get them to see our POV and hope they'll see it is for the betterment of their game. And yes, I know you guys have been preaching and trying this during my absence. I'm sure some of you are tired of trying.

I'm just trying to reach out to them in regards to presentation. I think I am good at that and I do think that is something they can and maybe will fix or change. Mainly adding a variety of commentary lines and as stated not saying every shot has to be a SHOT! Well said, my friend. And this overlay pop up stat thing. Defensive AI, well, I'm not sold they are going to change that so I'm just going to see who I can speak with regarding presentation.

If you guys think it is a lost cause then please tell me but I have found success with other developers. So worth a shot, I guess.