Block suggestions and rebalancing discussion

[ZHunter1990]

Preface: This post is something Ive decided to make myself and have had zero discussion with the devs on blocking logic in relation to the future of the series. The plan is to forward feedback of potential block ideas that pop up here as a result of discussion.

That said, the block logic/strength is an interesting topic to me because it shapes the meta in relation to offense/defense, rocked states, and the overall balance of strike output.

Example 1: Block remains the same, stamina tax on all strikes is elevated.

Potential results:
Result 1 - Head and body mix ups become more relevant to the meta. Where body strikes are thrown at a very disproportionate rate when compared to actual fights, due to block breaking not being worth the tax.

Result 2 - Offense is stifled, making it relatively easy to survive an onslaught and gas your opponent by simply holding the block button, and ocassionally swaying or dashing away.

Example 2: Block keeps the same logic but is made weaker(chips away with less strikes), stamina goes unchanged.

Result 1: Blocking is no longer the most viable form of defense. Forcing the defender to take more risks or get overwhelmed. This would lower strike output but buff aggression.


Proposals

- Increase stamina tax on all landed strikes by 30%(Clean and on block)

- Weaken block by one strike except when moving directly backwards (1-2-3, the lead hook would hit clean)

- Allow blocking while swaying(Increased stamina tax on head movement while blocking, if you sway into a strike, you eat the full damage of that strike, minus the vulnerability)

- Block reset after successful lunge, slip or sway.(Martials Idea)

- Higher permanant block damage on bigger strikes such as headkicks, flying knee's, overhands..etc(Laurieds idea)

- Allow slipping and circling to the OUTSIDE of a strike to follow the same logic that lunging away from a forward moving combo. Meaning that you could circle a stationary combo by slipping to the outside and moving in that direction.

- Get rid of constant stamina tax on retreating block and instead add a flat tax like a lunge, add vulnerability to the body and legs during the retreating block.

- Slightly buff the damage(Not block damage) on the first two strikes in a forward moving combo.

Agree, disagree? What are your suggestions?

Discuss.

[RetractedMonkey]

There’s no reason not to employ every single one of these changes except ones that deal with increased stamina tax on blocked strikes.

I’ve already made multiple statements concerning why altering the block in such a simple way would wreak havoc on the meta at the mid to low level.


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[RetractedMonkey]

Dramatically increasing the stamina tax on long combos (>2 strikes) would be my suggestion in addition to these. I’m talking about a 30% increase to 3 hit combos on the last hit and 50% on four and above (obviously the numbers could be tweaked but you get the idea).

It wouldn’t affect temporary stamina in the same way, only permanent. And 1 to 2 hit combos would receive even less of a stamina penalty than they do now. Making well timed two hit combos the new meta.

It would still destroy the low tier meta, but I’m not really interested in that. The reason why this is different than an increase in blocked strike tax is because you don’t have control over what strikes get blocked but you do control your output.

With the increased damage on third+ strikes to the block it also creates a risk reward meta to block breaking. You can hit the third strike for ostensibly a clean hit through the guard, but you still suffer the stamina tax. And if you miss, you’ve taken a hit from your permanent stamina pool.

This is the only effective way to increase fight longevity at higher metas and decrease strike output, in my opinion.

Edit: This also does away with the pattern block breaking we have now. Instead of having to change up the pattern to do damage, the block will change its pattern to account for spamming the same strikes over and over.

Ergo, you can hit a 1212 and get the last two hits in clean, but if you immediately follow with another 1212, the guy blocks almost all damage because his guard has adapted. But now it doesn’t leave them open for side on strikes. It was a good idea in theory, but the current system makes certain combos the end all be all.

The block will also reset after each hard combo in this system, but will retain “memory” for a certain period.

Obviously there are some things to be ironed out but these are my basic ideas.

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[ZHunter1990]

Quote: Originally Posted by RetractedMonkey

There’s no reason not to employ every single one of these changes except ones that deal with increased stamina tax on blocked strikes. I’ve already made multiple statements concerning why altering the block in such a simple way would wreak havoc on the meta at the mid to low level. Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

Did you purposefully use a double negative? That threw me for a loop for a second. ��

You dont think making the block weaker by 1 strike while increasing overall stamina tax on landed strikes would suffice?

Disregard, responded before seeing 2nd post.

[ZHunter1990]

Quote: Originally Posted by RetractedMonkey

Dramatically increasing the stamina tax on long combos (>2 strikes) would be my suggestion in addition to these. I’m talking about a 30% increase to 3 hit combos on the last hit and 50% on four and above (obviously the numbers could be tweaked but you get the idea). It wouldn’t affect temporary stamina in the same way, only permanent. And 1 to 2 hit combos would receive even less of a stamina penalty than they do now. Making well timed two hit combos the new meta. It would still destroy the low tier meta, but I’m not really interested in that. The reason why this is different than an increase in blocked strike tax is because you don’t have control over what strikes get blocked but you do control your output. With the increased damage on third+ strikes to the block it also creates a risk reward meta to block breaking. You can hit the third strike for ostensibly a clean hit through the guard, but you still suffer the stamina tax. And if you miss, you’ve taken a hit from your permanent stamina pool. This is the only effective way to increase fight longevity at higher metas and decrease strike output, in my opinion. Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

So weaken the block, but substantially raise the perma stam tax per each strike in a combo?

[RetractedMonkey]

Quote: Originally Posted by ZHunter1990

So weaken the block, but substantially raise the perma stam tax per each strike in a combo?

Yes. The point is to allow the attacker to control the rate of stamina loss. Automatically increasing the stamina tax for blocked hits removes agency from the attacker and is unrealistic as well. I feel like this is a better way to give the attacker options to pick their shots.


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[ZHunter1990]

Quote: Originally Posted by RetractedMonkey

Yes. The point is to allow the attacker to control the rate of stamina loss. Automatically increasing the stamina tax for blocked hits removes agency from the attacker and is unrealistic as well. I feel like this is a better way to give the attacker options to pick their shots. Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

I like it. Would allow you to try and steamroll your opponent at the risk of gassing out if their defensive abilities turn out to be up to par.

But, what's to stop people from throwing staccato 2 punch combos to bypass this?

[RetractedMonkey]

Quote: Originally Posted by ZHunter1990

I like it. Would allow you to try and steamroll your opponent at the risk of gassing out if their defensive abilities turn out to be up to par. But, what's to stop people from throwing staccato 2 punch combos to bypass this?

I edited my second post after you had replied. I suggested the block should be reset after each hard combo. Or at least regain a significant portion of its strength.

This makes it so the attacker only puts in longer combos when the defender is hurt or when he’s sure the strikes will land (or elects to take the stamina hit).

Also, you could expand on guard “memory” to bolster its strength when being hit by two consecutive hits repeatedly. In real life like you would by learning their striking pattern, allowing you to brace for impact on those two shots.

Just throwing out some suggestions.


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