The Current State of Pro-Am: What is this ****?

[Pappy Knuckles]

Pro-Am players have had to deal with many frustrating issues over the years. I was hopeful that the 2K where guys would just zig zag behind brick wall screens was about as bad as it could get, but unfortunately, we've somehow managed to head back down a similar path. At this point, I'm losing faith that the devs even have a genuine desire to make Pro-Am a "sim" experience. The decisions they've made with the game speak much louder than anything any Twitter post or blog could say.

I had high hopes for this game, and for a while, it was actually somewhat fun to play. They made spamming for steals more tolerable and shooting seemed fair enough. But then something happened a few weeks ago. I haven't kept up with patch updates, or the threads around here to know what exactly was tweaked, but the shooting has become absolutely ridiculous since then.

Sharpshooters and stretch bigs have now been given the green light to shoot any trash 3-pointer with confidence. Fadeaway from 30 feet with a dude draped all over them? Splash. Like what the **** is this, seriously?

I was hoping with how awful the gameplay of last year's E-League looked that they'd want to represent this aspect of their game better, but apparently not. The wild Park kids of the 2K neighborhood appear to have won. Congratulations.

Who wants to play real basketball? That's crazy talk, let's all be the 2.0 edition of Steph Curry. It also doesn't help that they've totally nerfed exactly what is considered a shot contest. You can be breathing on someone's neck at a slight angle on their shooting hand, but it's as if you're not even there. Sad.

I'm not going to get into Park like that because I've pretty much given up on that mode altogether. But if they are determined to turn 2K into some fantasy sport then they should keep arcade settings out there. The kids can have the neighborhood, that's fine. I won't fight it.

I just don't understand why there seems to be such pushback from 2K in regards to making Pro-Am a realistic experience. It makes me question if they even bother to play these games online themselves. With so many great basketball minds working there this is all very hard to process. If not for the fact that I absolutely love MLO, I'm sure I'd retire this game early, if nothing were to change.

[shayellis]

I can sum up Pro Am easily:

-Tipoff occurs, RB>LB pass through the defense to an easy dunk
-Sharpshooters come down and shoot 75% from open and about 45% contested
-Bigs miss layups because a defender has his hand up standing directly under the rim.
-Then the big who misses falls to the ground for 5 seconds, and there sharpshooting matchup greens a 3 because of it
-Glass Cleaners jump across the paint through bodies, to get boards.
-Rebounds morph into Glass Cleaners hands
-Glass Cleaners then RB>LB to the farthest player up the court without looking
-Pure sharp or lockdown catches full court pass in stride with Randy Moss touch
-It is now a fastbreak situation that ends in a 3 rather than a layup, because And 1s dont exist in the foul animations, and 3s are easier to make.
-Lockdowns now spam the inbound, passing lanes, and ballhandlers.
-The ballhandler then passes to what should be an open man, but the pass is made in a direct line and defenders have instantaneous reactions in the passing lanes.
-The only way to get open with the size of the court and instant defensive reactions is to :
A) Run behind the ballhandler and get the defender stuck. (As If you cant just easily brush off the other player)
B) Run a semi circle around the 3 point line with a big standing at the top of the 3 holding the pick button.

I could go on but i'm done for now

[splashmountain]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pappy Knuckles

Pro-Am players have had to deal with many frustrating issues over the years. I was hopeful that the 2K where guys would just zig zag behind brick wall screens was about as bad as it could get, but unfortunately, we've somehow managed to head back down a similar path. At this point, I'm losing faith that the devs even have a genuine desire to make Pro-Am a "sim" experience. The decisions they've made with the game speak much louder than anything any Twitter post or blog could say. I had high hopes for this game, and for a while, it was actually somewhat fun to play. They made spamming for steals more tolerable and shooting seemed fair enough. But then something happened a few weeks ago. I haven't kept up with patch updates, or the threads around here to know what exactly was tweaked, but the shooting has become absolutely ridiculous since then. Sharpshooters and stretch bigs have now been given the green light to shoot any trash 3-pointer with confidence. Fadeaway from 30 feet with a dude draped all over them? Splash. Like what the **** is this, seriously? I was hoping with how awful the gameplay of last year's E-League looked that they'd want to represent this aspect of their game better, but apparently not. The wild Park kids of the 2K neighborhood appear to have won. Congratulations. Who wants to play real basketball? That's crazy talk, let's all be the 2.0 edition of Steph Curry. It also doesn't help that they've totally nerfed exactly what is considered a shot contest. You can be breathing on someone's neck at a slight angle on their shooting hand, but it's as if you're not even there. Sad. I'm not going to get into Park like that because I've pretty much given up on that mode altogether. But if they are determined to turn 2K into some fantasy sport then they should keep arcade settings out there. The kids can have the neighborhood, that's fine. I won't fight it. I just don't understand why there seems to be such pushback from 2K in regards to making Pro-Am a realistic experience. It makes me question if they even bother to play these games online themselves. With so many great basketball minds working there this is all very hard to process. If not for the fact that I absolutely love MLO, I'm sure I'd retire this game early, if nothing were to change.

you're preaching to the choir preacher. but preach on. it needs to be said over and over again. If you're going to be ok with all aspects of 2k being a cartoonish arcade version of basketball. thats fine. Just say so. so I will know not to buy the game. OR if i decide to buy it i will buy it like i'm buying nba streets or nba jams. but wait. 2k has that arcade game too. so why make this yet another arcadey game? doesnt make sense at all. well, it doesnt make basketball sense. it probably makes dollars and cents.

This 2k user vs user especially when we're talking about my players. Its thee most scripted with thee most nerfed vs OP'd archetypes and badges ever.

I'll give you an example. I have a Center, post/athletic finisher. 91 rated. badged up. all badges that matter are maxed out. I think i need tear dropper or something to be maxed and thats about it. what is a big doing with ... never mind.

I'm playing vs one pure glass, and a defender/athletic big. I' at center vs the pure rebounder. the other guy is at PF. my teammate pf is a pure sharp that is rated in the 70's so I already know. its going to be a double team on me all night long. i'm fine with that.

He're's the problem and how i know 2k is scripted even user v user. I'm killing both of these dudes on the glass. I'm boxing the main rebounder out like crazy every chance i get. at times i'm not even jumping for the ball just boxing him out and backing up to make sure he doesnt get it. allowing my teammates to pick it up if necessary. since i know how OP those rebounders badges are.

I have 8 rebounds in the first 7 mins of the game, we're in qtr 2. the rebounder has 4(half of what i got). the defender dude has 3 rebs. So i'm out rebounding them both because i'm getting excellent position and at least the 70 something sharp is doing a good job of boxing his man out as well.

Then all of a sudden. the rebounder starts being gifted rebounds by 2k. the same box out i've been doing all game stops working out of no where. The dude is jumping clean over my back no call, snag... no call. snag. no call...snag..no call... snag. now here comes his Takeover badge turning on. He has now caught me in rebounds. pathetic.

I'm still going to work. We get to the 3rd quarter. i'm back on the glass on him again i'm up by 3 rebounds. same boxing out pushing him getting excellent position. this guy stands about 12 feet away from the paint. Just hits the Y button as the ball goes up in the air. his man jumps clear across the paint. SNAG.

What the...........2k? Whats the point in having stick skills if you're over powering unskilled or less skilled individuals? I mean why are you giving these people an extra handicapped BOOST? thats ridiculous. Its like i'm playing a user + the CPU on super hall of fame.

and thats just the rebounds story. sure we end up winning the game barely. i ended up getting player of the half and player of the game. end with 16 and 16, with some dimes, some steals, and a block.

that aint the point. I was KILLINg these dudes in the post. Up fake. both dudes go jumping wild. I fake step thru. blown layup.
Get my on board back(lucky 2k let me do that much). kick it out. and get it back. I fake the drop step. with the shoulder fake. one guy goes for the steal. wrong move. i go the other way up fake. other guy jumps. mistake. I spin back mind you i now have both of these guys standing out of bounds behind the backboard i faked them so badly. My Dude Goes up for a hard dunk. YAMMM. ... BRICK ..whatttt

They get the ball and end up hitting a 3. I'm close to hitting the quit button at this moment. Trying to hold my composure. not because the other guys are cheesing or abusing exploits. no, because 2k is nerfing my every move while boosting theres for no reason at all. I'm literally getting punished for being a better player.

next play down. my teammates see what i'm doing to these guys. so they hit me on the cut. forget the post up right...switch it up is smart right? Got em right? 2k 2k 2k.... I cut get that dime and Go in for a WIDE Open Dunk. YAMMM...BRICK

if I lived by myself the controller may have gone thru the TV or the window. But wait, why should i destroy my stuff cause 2k's unrealistic programming choices?

this is going on in the rec center. the random teammate of mine hits me with a message talking about "bro...you are goooood. you were killing those dudes." i said yeah thanks but you and both know i should've had 30pts and 20 rebounds if it wasnt for 2k nerfing my every move and boosting there's.
He then tells me how he missed all of his shots in the first 3 qtrs. which i saw. i just assumed he was low rated and couldnt shoot that well yet. He said all of those bricks which were wide open were full whites. only in the 4th would 2k allow those same full whites to become green makes.

This again tells me its scripted. 2k is attempting to make games closer than they should be even for user v user. sure you can blow people out from time to time. and if you have all of the OP archetypes and proper animations etc and teammates that know all the animation glitches. you can continuously blow out people that are not on that level. but for the most part 2k attempts to keep lesser players in the game with scripted animations for better or for worse depending on your arch/badges and if your team is down or not. I also think, could be wrong. but i think they attempt to simulate hot and cold streaks by ...as usual..OVER exaggerating it. and some games if you notice if you've been MONEY for the past 2 or so games all of a sudden you're throwing up bricks. i think thats 2k trying to show you a cold streak because thats what nba players go thru. the problem with that is this. cold streaks happen because a person does something slightly differently to his or her shots/movements. to get back right they have to adjust back to what was working before. but if you're doing the same exact working things. you should not go that cold. thats ridiculous. Nor should you be given greens or makes just to keep you from getting blow out by better players.

[splashmountain]

Quote: Originally Posted by shayellis

I can sum up Pro Am easily: -Tipoff occurs, RB>LB pass through the defense to an easy dunk -Sharpshooters come down and shoot 75% from open and about 45% contested -Bigs miss layups because a defender has his hand up standing directly under the rim. -Then the big who misses falls to the ground for 5 seconds, and there sharpshooting matchup greens a 3 because of it -Glass Cleaners jump across the paint through bodies, to get boards. -Rebounds morph into Glass Cleaners hands -Glass Cleaners then RB>LB to the farthest player up the court without looking -Pure sharp or lockdown catches full court pass in stride with Randy Moss touch -It is now a fastbreak situation that ends in a 3 rather than a layup, because And 1s dont exist in the foul animations, and 3s are easier to make. -Lockdowns now spam the inbound, passing lanes, and ballhandlers. -The ballhandler then passes to what should be an open man, but the pass is made in a direct line and defenders have instantaneous reactions in the passing lanes. -The only way to get open with the size of the court and instant defensive reactions is to : A) Run behind the ballhandler and get the defender stuck. (As If you cant just easily brush off the other player) B) Run a semi circle around the 3 point line with a big standing at the top of the 3 holding the pick button. I could go on but i'm done for now

wash,,,,rinse,,,repeat^^^^ read my story you just know what you said is spot on. so obviously neither one of us are making this up.

[Fullspeed]

I haven't played online in weeks because of the issues you mentioned. There really nothing else to say it is obvious that 2k want the game to revolve around the three pointer. There is no balance between inside and outside shots. It would of been fine if they gave inside shots the same treatment as perimeter shots. Also, nothing changed with shooting it been easy since day one even though they said it would be "harder" to shoot.

[3ShowTime2]

Agree with everything what youve said op. With the announcement of the 2k league I had high hopes that this will push the game in the right direction. With now one full season of experience and how 2k19 looks Ive lost any hope that they WANT to try to represent the game of basketball with the 2k league.


With regard to the general pro am gameplay I must say it didnt change much due to patches or so. Its the same since day one and even worse than 2k18 imo and theres one thing I always ask myself when playing a game: Why are some of these guys playing a basketball game?

[splashmountain]

Quote: Originally Posted by Fullspeed

I haven't played online in weeks because of the issues you mentioned. There really nothing else to say it is obvious that 2k want the game to revolve around the three pointer. There is no balance between inside and outside shots. It would of been fine if they gave inside shots the same treatment as perimeter shots. Also, nothing changed with shooting it been easy since day one even though they said it would be "harder" to shoot.

Look i dont have a problem with 2k wanting their game to resemble the real nba which has a lot to do with shooting 3's, and running fast up the court. But lets not kid ourselves. There are a handful of bigs in the nba that are going to work in the paint. and lets not fool ourselves, the pure rebounder guys are terrible passers in real life. why are they average almost as many assists as most pg's and sg's on 2k?


You dont have to force it down our throats this way. allow the game to progress that way organically with a realistic foundation of basketball. more people will choose guys that can shoot a 3 you dont have to worry about that. but also let some demar derozan types choose that mid range guy without having to do 50 dribble moves to make a simple 15 footer.

you dont have to make 3's 100% green lights. like why do we have the need to over exaggerate so much on 2k? i never understood that.

[NoLeafClover]

Quote: Originally Posted by shayellis

I can sum up Pro Am easily: -Tipoff occurs, RB>LB pass through the defense to an easy dunk -Sharpshooters come down and shoot 75% from open and about 45% contested -Bigs miss layups because a defender has his hand up standing directly under the rim. -Then the big who misses falls to the ground for 5 seconds, and there sharpshooting matchup greens a 3 because of it -Glass Cleaners jump across the paint through bodies, to get boards. -Rebounds morph into Glass Cleaners hands -Glass Cleaners then RB>LB to the farthest player up the court without looking -Pure sharp or lockdown catches full court pass in stride with Randy Moss touch -It is now a fastbreak situation that ends in a 3 rather than a layup, because And 1s dont exist in the foul animations, and 3s are easier to make. -Lockdowns now spam the inbound, passing lanes, and ballhandlers. -The ballhandler then passes to what should be an open man, but the pass is made in a direct line and defenders have instantaneous reactions in the passing lanes. -The only way to get open with the size of the court and instant defensive reactions is to : A) Run behind the ballhandler and get the defender stuck. (As If you cant just easily brush off the other player) B) Run a semi circle around the 3 point line with a big standing at the top of the 3 holding the pick button. I could go on but i'm done for now

Lol, this is EXACTLY what happens with every team, in every game, across every region of Rec/Pro Am. You nailed it dude, and it's boring and predictable as hell and creates some of the least-skilled gameplay I've ever seen.

People online are just clones of one another, there's zero variation and it's an absolute snorefest.