Rec center starting to feel like they ruined the mode

[Erithtotl]

Look, walk on Pro Am was far from perfect. It's usually not high quality game play. But it was the best way if you wanted to play actual 5 on 5 and didn't have the time to schedule team pro-am games.

I'm starting to feel like the mode has been ruined for this year, for the following reasons:

1) 5 player requirement: As others have mentioned, the 5 player requirement means that unless you play a big, you are likely waiting 10+ minutes to get into a game.

2) Steal spam: I actually LIKE the fact that you have to be careful with your passes, for the most part. But it doesn't translate well to rec, where teams of players don't know each other and their tendencies. There's too much unpredictability to make the ball so easy to steal. It also means that by default, people resort to just passing around the perimeter rather than risk passing inside, meaning bigs get completely freezed out.

3) Ineffective inside play: The bricking of open or near-open layups is well documented. In addition, post moves are glacially slow, allowing for easy double teaming or easy stonewalling, even by mediocre defenders. Because passing is so dangerous due to #2, this often results in a bad shot or turnover rather than an effective kickout. This, along with #2, results in the ball sitting on the perimeter and players jacking 3s all night long.

4) Transition over-effectiveness: This is a result of two things, first, full court passes are way easier than last year (as long as they don't go near a defender), really encouraging long bomb fast breaks. Also, in an effort to show real differentiation in player speed, its routine to see 1 or 2 guards sitting in the corner mere moments after a defensive rebound, ready for that full court pass to drill an uncontested 3.

Notice I didn't complain about the 3 point shooting? I don't think its actually much worse than last year. Its just that players default to this as the only method of scoring more than anything else.

I feel like these problems could all be solved, if 2K cares.

1) Remove the 5 player minimum. It's just too hard to get a game if you want to play a guard/wing.
2) Reduce the effectiveness of interior D on standing layups with high ratings, and speed the animations slightly on spins/drop steps, etc, especially at higher badge levels (we know they have better animations, you get them in takeover).
3) Bring back the annoying but needed unreliability of deep passing from last year. We all hated it, but the alternative is worse. Or, make deep passes slower and easier to pick off.
4) Players with higher pass ratings should put more zip on the ball, making it harder to time. Passes in the halfcourt often seem leisurely and are easily picked off. Put more arc on the overhead pass (which often I can't tell any difference between it an a regular one).

[Greene_Flash03]

I can understand that people's experiences in Pro Am/Rec are different playing solo versus being in a full squad, so I understand your concerns. I'm just lucky to play with a full squad all the time, and we don't experience most of the things that you've listed above.

1) 5 player requirement: As others have mentioned, the 5 player requirement means that unless you play a big, you are likely waiting 10+ minutes to get into a game. -- this can be resolved by nerfing shooters. The reason why it takes forever to get a game in when you're a wing/shooter is because these positions are the META right now. I'm sure shooters will defend themselves and tell you to D up. Well, the 'hands up' animation online is delayed, plus it doesn't affect their shots that much so there's not much we can do there.

2) Steal spam: I actually LIKE the fact that you have to be careful with your passes, for the most part. But it doesn't translate well to rec, where teams of players don't know each other and their tendencies. There's too much unpredictability to make the ball so easy to steal. It also means that by default, people resort to just passing around the perimeter rather than risk passing inside, meaning bigs get completely freezed out. -- I can see this being super annoying when the players you are playing with don't know what they are doing. Again though, being in a squad we don't experience SPAM steals since we know how to protect the ball. It's actually funny when people do this to us, they just foul out and not get XP.

3) Ineffective inside play: The bricking of open or near-open layups is well documented. In addition, post moves are glacially slow, allowing for easy double teaming or easy stonewalling, even by mediocre defenders. Because passing is so dangerous due to #2, this often results in a bad shot or turnover rather than an effective kickout. This, along with #2, results in the ball sitting on the perimeter and players jacking 3s all night long. -- I've seen videos of this, but we don't experience this in Pro Am/Rec yet. The key here is court spacing, just like in real life. But again, it's hard to accomplish this with random people.

4) Transition over-effectiveness: This is a result of two things, first, full court passes are way easier than last year (as long as they don't go near a defender), really encouraging long bomb fast breaks. Also, in an effort to show real differentiation in player speed, its routine to see 1 or 2 guards sitting in the corner mere moments after a defensive rebound, ready for that full court pass to drill an uncontested 3. -- This is actually one of my complaints playing online. It's too effective. So until 2k fixes this, people will continue to abuse this. No other way around it.

Notice I didn't complain about the 3 point shooting? I don't think its actually much worse than last year. Its just that players default to this as the only method of scoring more than anything else. -- well, this is one of my complaints too and it's well-documented. So there's that.

Reduce the effectiveness of interior D on standing layups with high ratings, and speed the animations slightly on spins/drop steps, etc, especially at higher badge levels (we know they have better animations, you get them in takeover). -- Please don't. You don't want 2k19 to be 2k18 again where people just spam pump fakes under the basket and go for the easy 2 all the time. People abused this move in 2K League as well. There is a way to score inside, trust me.

[Thrustie]

I’d like to know your magical way to score inside effectively because it’s certainly not from standing layups, putbacks or off-ball cuts. The only ways I’ve discovered are fast break dunks, alley oops or driving with the ball from near the perimeter. The last only works if your defender gaps you enough so you can launch into a posterizer animation or if he just flat out blows his coverage. I’ve played over 150 games of Rec and I haven’t seen anyone score inside effectively or efficiently unless they take very few shots, leak out regularly or have a poor defender covering them.

[Erithtotl]

Quote: Originally Posted by Greene_Flash03

I can understand that people's experiences in Pro Am/Rec are different playing solo versus being in a full squad, so I understand your concerns. I'm just lucky to play with a full squad all the time, and we don't experience most of the things that you've listed above. 1) 5 player requirement: As others have mentioned, the 5 player requirement means that unless you play a big, you are likely waiting 10+ minutes to get into a game. -- this can be resolved by nerfing shooters. The reason why it takes forever to get a game in when you're a wing/shooter is because these positions are the META right now. I'm sure shooters will defend themselves and tell you to D up. Well, the 'hands up' animation online is delayed, plus it doesn't affect their shots that much so there's not much we can do there. 2) Steal spam: I actually LIKE the fact that you have to be careful with your passes, for the most part. But it doesn't translate well to rec, where teams of players don't know each other and their tendencies. There's too much unpredictability to make the ball so easy to steal. It also means that by default, people resort to just passing around the perimeter rather than risk passing inside, meaning bigs get completely freezed out. -- I can see this being super annoying when the players you are playing with don't know what they are doing. Again though, being in a squad we don't experience SPAM steals since we know how to protect the ball. It's actually funny when people do this to us, they just foul out and not get XP. 3) Ineffective inside play: The bricking of open or near-open layups is well documented. In addition, post moves are glacially slow, allowing for easy double teaming or easy stonewalling, even by mediocre defenders. Because passing is so dangerous due to #2, this often results in a bad shot or turnover rather than an effective kickout. This, along with #2, results in the ball sitting on the perimeter and players jacking 3s all night long. -- I've seen videos of this, but we don't experience this in Pro Am/Rec yet. The key here is court spacing, just like in real life. But again, it's hard to accomplish this with random people. 4) Transition over-effectiveness: This is a result of two things, first, full court passes are way easier than last year (as long as they don't go near a defender), really encouraging long bomb fast breaks. Also, in an effort to show real differentiation in player speed, its routine to see 1 or 2 guards sitting in the corner mere moments after a defensive rebound, ready for that full court pass to drill an uncontested 3. -- This is actually one of my complaints playing online. It's too effective. So until 2k fixes this, people will continue to abuse this. No other way around it. Notice I didn't complain about the 3 point shooting? I don't think its actually much worse than last year. Its just that players default to this as the only method of scoring more than anything else. -- well, this is one of my complaints too and it's well-documented. So there's that. Reduce the effectiveness of interior D on standing layups with high ratings, and speed the animations slightly on spins/drop steps, etc, especially at higher badge levels (we know they have better animations, you get them in takeover). -- Please don't. You don't want 2k19 to be 2k18 again where people just spam pump fakes under the basket and go for the easy 2 all the time. People abused this move in 2K League as well. There is a way to score inside, trust me.

Appreciate your response. Though you basically just made my argument. You are playing Team Pro-Am in Rec.

The benefit of pro-am walk on, as bad as it was, was that it was a great way to get in a casual game. And that part isn't working.

[Greene_Flash03]

Quote: Originally Posted by Thrustie

I’d like to know your magical way to score inside effectively because it’s certainly not from standing layups, putbacks or off-ball cuts. The only ways I’ve discovered are fast break dunks, alley oops or driving with the ball from near the perimeter. The last only works if your defender gaps you enough so you can launch into a posterizer animation or if he just flat out blows his coverage. I’ve played over 150 games of Rec and I haven’t seen anyone score inside effectively or efficiently unless they take very few shots, leak out regularly or have a poor defender covering them.

It's quite simple, but hard-to-impossible to accomplish with randoms.

Playing as a C, our PF would set a screen for me inside (under the basket), I hit the screen to go on the other side of the paint, at that point, I'm open for an easy standing layup. That's just one of the plays that we do.

[Greene_Flash03]

Quote: Originally Posted by Erithtotl

Appreciate your response. Though you basically just made my argument. You are playing Team Pro-Am in Rec. The benefit of pro-am walk on, as bad as it was, was that it was a great way to get in a casual game. And that part isn't working.

Yeah totally different experience as I stated in my previous post.

But if you think about it, Rec is like playing at your local LA fitness where people kinda do their own thing. Not set plays, no court spacing, people just care about getting theirs. That's what I kind of expect in 2K playing as a walk on too.

All in all, 2k have their work cut out for them. Tone down 3pt accuracy and cross-court passes/cherry picking would be a good start.

[Thrustie]

Quote: Originally Posted by Greene_Flash03

It's quite simple, but hard-to-impossible to accomplish with randoms. Playing as a C, our PF would set a screen for me inside (under the basket), I hit the screen to go on the other side of the paint, at that point, I'm open for an easy standing layup. That's just one of the plays that we do.

Yeah I’m glad you’ve found ways to circumvent 2K19s poor animations and bizarre standing layup misses but that doesn’t mean there’s not a problem. It’s great that some plays work but I have dozens of videos showcasing the fundamental issues with inside scoring. Running with a squad against a bunch of randoms isn’t going to give you a great perception of the state of the game.

[Greene_Flash03]

Quote: Originally Posted by Thrustie

Yeah I’m glad you’ve found ways to circumvent 2K19s poor animations and bizarre standing layup misses but that doesn’t mean there’s not a problem. It’s great that some plays work but I have dozens of videos showcasing the fundamental issues with inside scoring. Running with a squad against a bunch of randoms isn’t going to give you a great perception of the state of the game.

True that. I've seen a lot of videos of wide open standing layups. Those are super annoying for sure.