Rookie ratings are a mess, especially athletically

[mauroth]

Besides yearly issues like Kanter and Sabonis rated less than a 60y.o old in defense, did anyone had a look to the rookie ratings? There's a huge mess there! Some potentials look weird, but that's on the athletic rating where your eyes start crying for pain.

Some examples:

Zhaie Smith: on ball defense only 71, potential only 75
Di vincenzo is an elite guard with 90 speed 89 quickness and 95 vertical. DiVinstbrook???
Shamet, know for being slow and poor athletically is 90/88/80
Sexton is fast, but surely not like John Wall! 94/94/84
Huerter 86 speed? com'on!
Mitchell Robinson can switch against anyone but he's 58/37 with 58 OBDIQ
Svi from the lakers is average athletically, but a lot faste than Lavine in 2k at 85/83
Slow center Moritz Wagner is 79/64/75!!! a guard in white mozzarella body???
Mo bamba is 88 in speed!!!!! he's not fast and athletic.
Doncic key doubt is on his speed vs guards. Not in 2k: 84/84!
Lonnie Walker is god: 94/93/83...why he's not the #1 pick then?
Okogie is good too: 96/90/92
And slow and unathletic Gary Trent? 88/88/90 and potential 80!!!

These value are dramatically affecting the myleague experience and they seem to be nowhere tied to current NBA rating system. Please fix them before season start! (and stop using combine testing as the only easy and cheap way to rate athleticism

[LetItGo]

Quote: Originally Posted by mauroth

Besides yearly issues like Kanter and Sabonis rated less than a 60y.o old in defense, did anyone had a look to the rookie ratings? There's a huge mess there! Some potentials look weird, but that's on the athletic rating where your eyes start crying for pain. Some examples: Zhaie Smith: on ball defense only 71, potential only 75 Di vincenzo is an elite guard with 90 speed 89 quickness and 95 vertical. DiVinstbrook??? Shamet, know for being slow and poor athletically is 90/88/80 Sexton is fast, but surely not like John Wall! 94/94/84 Huerter 86 speed? com'on! Mitchell Robinson can switch against anyone but he's 58/37 with 58 OBDIQ Svi from the lakers is average athletically, but a lot faste than Lavine in 2k at 85/83 Slow center Moritz Wagner is 79/64/75!!! a guard in white mozzarella body??? Mo bamba is 88 in speed!!!!! he's not fast and athletic. Doncic key doubt is on his speed vs guards. Not in 2k: 84/84! Lonnie Walker is god: 94/93/83...why he's not the #1 pick then? Okogie is good too: 96/90/92 And slow and unathletic Gary Trent? 88/88/90 and potential 80!!! These value are dramatically affecting the myleague experience and they seem to be nowhere tied to current NBA rating system. Please fix them before season start! (and stop using combine testing as the only easy and cheap way to rate athleticism

DiVincenzo deserves those attributes. Had the highest vertical at the combine (6 inches higher than what Westbrook posted coming out of UCLA) and elite speed stats as well.

Shamet's vertical was also higher than Westbrook's coming out and had the same 3/4 court sprint time as Divincenzo. You could argue his vertical should be higher than 80 at 39.5''.

Okogie is ridiculously athletic. Same vert as DiVincenzo but faster shuttle run and 3/4 court sprint. Deserves those attributes. Speed might be a bit high but 96/90/92 is not crazy.

Lonny Walker also had a 40'' vert.

I honestly think you're just sleeping on most of these guys athletically. Raw athleticism is not what makes a Wall or Westbrook so good. It's their skill and high iq that separate them from the pack. There are more than a few guys in the league and college who are just as if not more athletic.

[3ShowTime2]

Quote: Originally Posted by LetItGo

DiVincenzo deserves those attributes. Had the highest vertical at the combine (6 inches higher than what Westbrook posted coming out of UCLA) and elite speed stats as well. Shamet's vertical was also higher than Westbrook's coming out and had the same 3/4 court sprint time as Divincenzo. You could argue his vertical should be higher than 80 at 39.5''. Okogie is ridiculously athletic. Same vert as DiVincenzo but faster shuttle run and 3/4 court sprint. Deserves those attributes. Speed might be a bit high but 96/90/92 is not crazy. Lonny Walker also had a 40'' vert. I honestly think you're just sleeping on most of these guys athletically. Raw athleticism is not what makes a Wall or Westbrook so good. It's their skill and high iq that separate them from the pack. There are more than a few guys in the league and college who are just as if not more athletic.

Thats why I stopped playing with stock rosters years ago...No effort put in here by 2k.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Operation Sports mobile app

[mauroth]

Quote: Originally Posted by LetItGo

DiVincenzo deserves those attributes. Had the highest vertical at the combine (6 inches higher than what Westbrook posted coming out of UCLA) and elite speed stats as well. Shamet's vertical was also higher than Westbrook's coming out and had the same 3/4 court sprint time as Divincenzo. You could argue his vertical should be higher than 80 at 39.5''. Okogie is ridiculously athletic. Same vert as DiVincenzo but faster shuttle run and 3/4 court sprint. Deserves those attributes. Speed might be a bit high but 96/90/92 is not crazy. Lonny Walker also had a 40'' vert. I honestly think you're just sleeping on most of these guys athletically. Raw athleticism is not what makes a Wall or Westbrook so good. It's their skill and high iq that separate them from the pack. There are more than a few guys in the league and college who are just as if not more athletic.

That's the same bias 2k is using to rate athleticism via easy math formula from the combine results.
But you also have to look at the players playing in real life and how the they FUNCTIONALLY use athleticism. Just read some draft report with linked video of the mentioned players and you'll immediately notice how much do they differ.
We have a huge amount of combine winners (i rembember well Travis Leslie in 2011) that didn't even play in the NBA.

And also, very important, you have to put the rookies in a scale against actual NBA players. Do you really want to tell me that Mo Bamba is way faster than Zach Lavine?

Di Vincenzo is a good player athletically speaking, but in NCAA, although above average, he didn't really stand out. Okogie is very good athletically, but these values put him in the 3 top NBA players rankings! Shamet biggest cons in every scouting report is linked to his athletic ability. Lonnie Walker is a great athlete too, but again...his values are Uber Elite and no scouting report reports him at this level.
Mo Wagner is very nice pick n pop player with decent mobility, but he provides zero rim protection and he can't be just 2p slower than Lavine!!!

We have to use some grain of salt man. Because, after all, Westbrook (a real top 5 NBA athletically speaking) only had a 36.5 max vert at the combine.

[LetItGo]

Quote: Originally Posted by mauroth

That's the same bias 2k is using to rate athleticism via easy math formula from the combine results. But you also have to look at the players playing in real life and how the they FUNCTIONALLY use athleticism. Just read some draft report with linked of the mentioned players and you'll immediately notice how much do they differ. We have a huge amount of combine winners (i rembember well Travis Leslie in 2011) that didn't even play in the NBA. And also, very important, you have to put the rookies in a scale against actual NBA players. Do you really want to tell that Mo Bamba is way faster than Zach Lavine? Di Vincenzo is a good player athletically speaking, but in NCAA, although above average, he didn't really stand out. Okogie is very good athletically, but these values put him in the 3 top NBA players rankings! Shamet biggest cons in every scouting report is linked to his athletic ability. Lonnie Walker is a great athlete too, but again...his values are better Uber Elite and no scouting report reports him at this level. Mo Wagner is very nice pick n pop player with decent mobility, but he provides zero rim protection and he can't be just 2p slower than Lavine!!! We have to use some grain of salt man. Because, after all, Westbrook (a real top 5 NBA) only had a 36.5 max vert at the combine.

How they functionally use their athleticism is encapsulated in their skill attributes like ball handling, shooting, and awareness. When it comes to raw athleticism, their speed, quickness, vertical attributes are pretty accurate. The best way in my opinion to get those athleticism attributes is by looking at hard, unbiased, controlled data like combine results.

And I'm aware that Westbrook only had a 36.5'' max vert. That's why I said his athleticism alone isn't what makes him great. There are many guys out there who are more athletic than him. He has terrific body control, is very quick with the ball in hands, and has a good basketball IQ to go along with his good run and jump athleticism which makes him a great player.

You could say that Westbrook is a top 5 athlete in the league, but if you're just going by speed, quickness, and vertical, he's probably not. There's much more to stars like Westbrook's games than athleticism so I don't really see the issue here.

[jk31]

Most ratings are a mess,not just rookie ratings. just like you already mentioned: Sabonis defense, which is ranked between 30 and 50. of course He is no defense Stopper, but at least He is a Solid, maybe slightly subpar defender.
another example is thabo sefoloshas open 3 rating. He shot 38% last season yet gets a 73 rating. compare that with jrue holiday, who shot 33% and gets a 78 rating.

so many ratings are a mess...

[mauroth]

Quote: Originally Posted by jk31

Most ratings are a mess,not just rookie ratings. just like you already mentioned: Sabonis defense, which is ranked between 30 and 50. of course He is no defense Stopper, but at least He is a Solid, maybe slightly subpar defender. another example is thabo sefoloshas open 3 rating. He shot 38% last season yet gets a 73 rating. compare that with jrue holiday, who shot 33% and gets a 78 rating. so many ratings are a mess...

I agree, there are many mistakes, like Middleton 77 stamina...but there are hundreds like this. Rashidi is well aware for sure eheh. Sterling Brown subpar 65 vertical rating... But most of these are kept year by year, just like the big part of the job is inserting the % in an excel file and update the ratings accordingly.

But with the rookies, all the athletic skills ratings are way out of the scale compared to the actual NBA players, like different people made them, and this has an even bigger impact on the simulation.
I mean, with dozens of draft class makers that take care to read the various scouting reports and take no money for this, is that complicated to have the same thing done by well paid people? smh

You can tell that westbrook is so athletic because of handle and other skills...but if you want to posterize someone from the FT line like he does, he needs that 90+ vertical rating, while with 36.5 he'll probably be in the mid 70s... this theory won't work at all in NBA 2k.

[kolkmania]

Quote: Originally Posted by LetItGo

How they functionally use their athleticism is encapsulated in their skill attributes like ball handling, shooting, and awareness. When it comes to raw athleticism, their speed, quickness, vertical attributes are pretty accurate. The best way in my opinion to get those athleticism attributes is by looking at hard, unbiased, controlled data like combine results. And I'm aware that Westbrook only had a 36.5'' max vert. That's why I said his athleticism alone isn't what makes him great. There are many guys out there who are more athletic than him. He has terrific body control, is very quick with the ball in hands, and has a good basketball IQ to go along with his good run and jump athleticism which makes him a great player. You could say that Westbrook is a top 5 athlete in the league, but if you're just going by speed, quickness, and vertical, he's probably not. There's much more to stars like Westbrook's games than athleticism so I don't really see the issue here.

I think you're putting way too much stock into combine results. The variations between results for the same player are baffling and not even mentioning the inconsistent measuring methods.