RFF's M18 32-man CFM USER v USER Sliders

[Aestis]

So much good work is being done on these forums with slider sets from Charter, Flazko, and all the others who put a lot of time into making solo franchise play a much more realistic experience. But for those of us in 32-man online leagues, quite frankly the game plays a LOT differently in User v User games, and these sets do not lead to realistic league-wide gameplay.

I have received feedback from many players & leagues that my sliders were the most realistic set they'd ever experienced for User v User games. There were several leagues here on OpSports & around the community running this slider set or basing theirs on it. I will be updating this again for M18!


The Methodology:
Click here to see M17 sliders thread.

Dating back to M15, I've been measuring our league's User v User game stats & benchmarking against the NFL using per-play success metrics (e.g. Pts per play, Yds per rush attempt, Yds per pass attempt, Sacks & INTs per 100 dropbacks/attempts, just to name a few) to balance our sliders.

This means hard data from 32 humans across hundreds of games are what dictate my slider adjustments, NOT the subjective judgment by the slider creator on how they think they should be performing. So if I'm personally having a hard time running the ball, but the league as a whole is tracking great vs NFL run success...the run game goes untouched. Without this visibility into league-wide stats in USER games only, there is no honest & objective way to balance a 32-man league.

And again, this is all benchmarked against NFL median per-play success, not just game-end point & yardage totals. Sim leagues who run 6-minute quarters where each team snaps 35-45 plays/game might end up with realistic looking 34-24 type scores, 280 yds passing by QBs, 90 yds rushing from RBs...but that's off 21 pass attempts and 13 rushes. Despite calling themselves "sim leagues," their actual gameplay is incredibly arcadey. Scoring is MUCH easier in these leagues. Scoring in the NFL is tough, teams have to punt often, and our sliders are designed to reflect this.

If you run this set, to succeed you will have to:

- Stop throwing it into the middle of soft coverage. Hardest thing for most Madden players to learn. NFL QBs don't force it, and they don't try to thread tight needles 15 yards downfield at a huge risk of INT. Madden players tend to force it downfield into coverage no matter what then complain about INTs. NFL QBs check down & live to fight another day--even if it means punting.
- Get the ball out quick. Pass rush can come quickly. You better actually read Ds & have a progression. The "drop back 10+ yds and wait for someone to come open" age-old video game approach won't work.
- ID & adjust to possible blitzes. All the pass block sliders in the world won't make your 5 blockers protect against 6 rushers. In the NFL, 5 man pressure vs 5 blockers reaches the QB in 2.5 seconds or less about half the time. 4 man rushes vs 5 blockers reach the QB in 3 seconds or less about half the time. Better have your "hot" read ready when the D dials up a blitz.
- Get in 3rd & manageable. 3rd & long is just really really tough on these sliders, as it is in the NFL. Don't anticipate converting a whole lot of 3rd & 8+ on these sliders.
- Stop assuming a route will always get open because it always got open in M16/M17. E.g. corner routes are no longer automatic wins on these sliders. (But they can still be highly effective vs the right coverages with the right matchups!)

tldr; Good defense + limiting turnovers + field position = winning, with these sliders.

In short, this will be the slider set for online leagues who want their gameplay to be as realistic as Madden will allow.

What the passing game on these sliders looks like, in a few cool screenshots capturing animations you'll see more of:

Spoiler

Say goodbye to always finding WRs wide open. The NFL is a game of inches. On these sliders, a fast WR gets a step or two on a streak, not 10 yds (but a step is enough with a great throw!). An elite WR can make a contested catch. Your decisions have to be made QUICKLY or windows tighten.

QUICK PASSES:





MID-RANGE PASSES:





DEEP PASSES:

How this set is benchmarking statistically vs the NFL in our league:

Spoiler

We run ~110-115 snaps per game, NFL runs 125-128. So for the efficiency metrics, goal is to track about ~12% higher than the NFL to get the game-end totals about even. This is still pretty close to NFL feel though still slightly on the offensive side. Most leagues run 35-80% higher than the NFL in offensive success metrics without even realizing it, which means actual gameplay looks nothing at all like the NFL.

- Pts per Game: 22.5 - 23.5 ppg (2016 NFL median = 22.8)
- Pts per Snap: 0.37 - 0.39 (2016 NFL median = 0.36)
- 3rd Down Conversion: 36%-43% (2016 NFL median = 38%)
- Pass Yds per Attempt: 7.4 - 8.4 (2016 NFL median = 7.2)
- Completion Rate: 59%-64% (2016 NFL median = 63%)
- INT Rate: 4.5%-6.2% (2016 NFL median = 2.5%)
- Yds per Carry: 3.96-4.15 (2016 NFL avg weekly median = 3.9)
- Fumble Rate: 0.66% of snaps (2016 NFL median = 0.88%)

SEASON ONE

Spoiler

Last update: Oct 16

Game Options
Game mode: Simulation
Difficulty: All Madden
Speed: Slow
Quarter Length: 12 min
Runoff: 18 sec
Target Goal: 118-120 snaps/gm, ~1:10 realtime length
Injury: 22
Fatigue: 62
SPD Disparity: 70

User Sliders
QB Acc: 62
Pass Blk: 100 (CPU: 80... this is important)
WR Catch: 80
Run Blk: 59
Fumble: 77

Pass D React: 0
INT: 30
Pass Cov: 0
Tackle: 70

FG Power: 45
FG Acc: 100
Punt Power: 53
Punt Acc: 49
Kickoff Power: 51

Penalties
Offsides: 45
False Start: 10 (allows more Fake Hikes vs user DL)
Off Holding: 20 (allows Aggressive Blocking coaching adjustment without excessive Holding calls)
Def Holding: 85
Facemask: 51
Def Pass Int: 65
Off Pass Int: ON
Illegal Blk: 50
Roughing: 50

SEASON THREE

Spoiler

Last update: Nov 26

Game Options
Game mode: Simulation
Difficulty: All Madden
Speed: Slow
Quarter Length: 12 min
Runoff: 20 sec
Target Goal: 118-120 snaps/gm, ~1:10 realtime length
Injury: 22
Fatigue: 62
SPD Disparity: 80

User Sliders
QB Acc: 45
Pass Blk: 100 (CPU PBK: 65... this is important)
WR Catch: 80
Run Blk: 59
Fumble: 77

Pass D React: 100
INT: 33
Pass Cov: 100
Tackle: 80

FG Power: 45
FG Acc: 100
Punt Power: 53
Punt Acc: 45
Kickoff Power: 51

Penalties
Offsides: 55
False Start: 51
Off Holding: 65
Def Holding: 85
Facemask: 50
Def Pass Int: 65
Off Pass Int: ON
Illegal Blk: 50
Roughing: 50


XP Sliders (Based on tdawg's 10-year sim data and balanced down for 32 humans running primarily Gold training & swapping player positions instead of 31 CPUs running Bronze.)
QB: 90
HB: 100
FB: 30
WR: 70
TE: 90
OT: 80
OG: 80
C: 80
DT: 100
DE: 100
OLB: 100
MLB: 100
CB: 100
FS: 100
SS: 100
K: 100
P: 100

SEASON FIVE
Last update: Jan 17

Game Options
Game mode: Simulation
Difficulty: All Madden
Speed: Slow
Quarter Length: 12 min
Runoff: 20 sec
Target Goal: 118-120 snaps/gm, ~1:10 realtime length
Injury: 22
Fatigue: 62
SPD Disparity: 85

User Sliders
QB Acc: 43
Pass Blk: 100 (CPU PBK: 65... this is important)
WR Catch: 80
Run Blk: 61
Fumble: 77

Pass D React: 100
INT: 33
Pass Cov: 100
Tackle: 80

FG Power: 45
FG Acc: 100
Punt Power: 53
Punt Acc: 45
Kickoff Power: 51

Penalties
Offsides: 57
False Start: 53
Off Holding: 67
Def Holding: 85
Facemask: 50
Def Pass Int: 65
Off Pass Int: ON
Illegal Blk: 50
Roughing: 50


XP Sliders (Based on tdawg's 10-year sim data and balanced down for 32 humans running primarily Gold training & swapping player positions instead of 31 CPUs running Bronze.)
QB: 90
HB: 100
FB: 30
WR: 70
TE: 90
OT: 80
OG: 80
C: 80
DT: 100
DE: 100
OLB: 100
MLB: 100
CB: 100
FS: 100
SS: 100
K: 100
P: 100

[Mike Lowe]

I'm looking to do something similar, so I'll be here to discuss/help/etc.

I'll also be working on a solo set too, but agree that they are two different animals!

Do you have a group of guys for CFM yet? Perhaps we can combine forces together to get this all up and running.

[Aestis]

Quote: Originally Posted by Mike Lowe

I'm looking to do something similar, so I'll be here to discuss/help/etc. I'll also be working on a solo set too, but agree that they are two different animals! Do you have a group of guys for CFM yet? Perhaps we can combine forces together to get this all up and running.

Sure, happy to discuss--though as mentioned I use data from our 32-man CFM to drive the decisions, not my opinions or anyone else's. I have a post for our M17 sliders for reference (linked above) so you can get a feel for what to expect.

Our league dates back to M15 so we have been up & running for years at this point, but let me know if you need any help.

[ranta21]

I am hyped. Last season was amazing. Thank you.

[Aestis]

Quote: Originally Posted by ranta21

I am hyped. Last season was amazing. Thank you.

Thank you!

I am spending this week doing my best SWAG (scientific wild-*** guess for those who don't know the acronym ) at a starting point and will post what we're starting out with by Friday at the latest. Taking into account last year's sliders & changes to this year's game.

- Considering All Pro this year instead of AM due to the emphasis on ratings mattering more this year, but I need some H2H time vs humans to get an idea of whether offense will always be too powerful.

- Offhand some of the default sliders do seem much closer to the sweet spot than in M16/M17... hope playing humans back this up, so far all my observation has been vs CPU.



Keep in mind, if the selling point of my set is using our league data to drive decisions...then that means the initial say will probably be flawed in some way. Will be able to start refining after the first week of games. So bear with me if the first week is like a 6.0 ypc or 3.0 ypc league-wide avg... as always it will be adjusted/corrected toward NFL medians!

[Aestis]

Just as an informal sneak peak w/ some observations for those of you starting earlier:


- We're going with All Madden. Just cannot see how AP is going to work out. The coverage just isn't there. AM feels much better, the animations with tight coverage are pretty neat. Yes, certain things (e.g. pass rush) are out of whack on default AM, but the feel is there. On AP even with 100 PDRT / 100 Coverage, I can throw for 400+ yds 5+ TDs 0 INTs and 6+ YPC. League members report moving the ball at will on AP. People can argue philosophically it's 'true ratings' all they want--whatever that even means. It's going to be all offense on AP. Maybe fine for leagues running 6 min quarters who just want the final score to look realistic.

- QB Accuracy on AM is close. Likely starting either at default or just under.

- Pass Blocking feels too weak. Likely starting in the 65-75 range and will see how sack #s start coming in.

- Run Blocking I think isn't too far off. Will keep it close to default initially, maybe 51-53 to start.

- INT slider will be in the 35-40 range. Similar issues as M17, needs to stay lower to avoid RNG interceptions straight to defenders but if you go TOO low then INTs are dropped too often & poor/aggressive decisions aren't punished. It does seem better than M17.

- Leaving coverage at default to start, Pass D Reaction time will be either default or a hair below.


XP Sliders will be something close to the below (based on the raw data from tdawg's M18 testing):
QB 80
HB 100
FB 30
WR 60
TE 90
OT 80
OG 80
C 80
DT 100
DE 100
OLB 100
MLB 100
CB 100
FS 100
SS 100
K 100
P 100

[Aestis]

We are waiting until next week to start our league, so hard data will be a bit delayed. However, I've gotten some good time in now vs CPU, in practice mode, CFM, and vs a couple users in CFM games.

I'm resisting posting this in the OP until we get a few weeks into S1, but here's something very close to what we will be starting with.

Notes on the below sliders:
- Coverage is pretty good on these sliders. Man is viable but not OP.
- Scoring in the games I've played has been high, but HUGE chunks of scoring are a result of mega-OP juke/spin moves. Take those out and I feel this will be very close. As a result I've upped Tackle to 55 to help, but likely the upcoming tuner update will change this, and Tackle will come back down.
- Related to the above, YPC has been good but that's almost entirely on the back of RBs juking/spinning their way to massive breakaway runs inflating YPC in an otherwise tough run game. It's too boom/bust at the moment. 60 RBK is probably too high but we'll see how it goes if jukes/spins come down to earth.
- Pass blocking at 70 felt too strong, at default it's too low. 65 to start.
- Penalties based on last year's #s where I benchmarked vs NFL penalty rates. Will tweak at some point but this should be a good starting point, not noticing anything too crazy so far.
- XP sliders based on tdawg's raw 10-year sim data, tuned down to account for 32 humans all running Gold training instead of 31 CPUs running Bronze. Feel these will leave talent distribution in a good place for teams who don't want loads of 90+ starters at every position.

AS ALWAYS, UNTIL DATA STARTS ROLLING IN, THIS IS PROBABLY STILL A BIT FLAWED!


Pre-Week 1 Starting Slider Set

Target Goal: 115-120 snaps/gm, ~1:10 realtime length

[marillion9]

Aestis....do these sliders need to be set in both the Main and CFM areas? Or just in the CFM? Thanks for all the hard work on these!