Lets pick apart what could go wrong with a system of upgrading individual attributes

[Housh123]

Ok so 2k17 ran on group upgrades. Shooting, rebounding, playmaking ect.


So lets list every attribute that you can have:


Shot close
Shot off dribble mid range
Shot off dribble 3
Standing layup
Driving layup
Standing dunk
Driving dunk
Contact Dunk
Contested shot midrange
Open shot midrange
Contested shot 3
Open shot 3
Post hook
Post fade
Post control
Speed
Strength
Box out
offensive rebound
defensive rebound
box out
Ball control
pass vision
pass IQ
pass accuracy
speed with ball
Lateral quickness
pass perception
block
shot contest
Steal
defensive consistency
on ball IQ
Pick and roll IQ
Help D
Low post IQ
Acceleration
Vertical






Ok so if you could upgrade each attribute individually what ways do you think the 2k community would ruin the game? I know its a weird question to ask but its one the development team should ask themselves before every tweak. Now I am not talking about what kind of combinations could make 1 or 2 players really cheesy. I'm talking about what methods would the community use as a whole that would lead to the game being unenjoyable. I see this upgrade method proposed a lot on this board and I want to really dive into if it truly is a good method.




So off the top Id guess that everyone in the whole game would be able to shoot 3s. This would get annoying fast. Also this would make playing with 12 year old randoms who don't know how to play D unbearable. Can you picture having to guard 5 guys on the court out to the 3pt line. Letting everyone upgrade their 3 to 99 would really hurt the game.


The next thing I want to point out is everyone and their mama would have their steal maxed out. If you think reaching is bad now, picture the individual upgrade system where literally everyone in the game has a 99 steal, block, lateral quickness, and on ball D. If foul logic was not also tweaked to accommodate this change the game could literally be unplayable. They would have to rename the game to NBA 2k ReachFest 2018.


The final thing I want to go over is literally everyone would have 99 speed. This in itself could make the game unplayable. You wouldn't be able to beat anyone on a fast break. Guys could close out to every 3 point attempt. You'd be getting blocked way more. Big men with 99 block, would be getting blocks they realistically shouldn't get, the game would be horrible.






I'm actually for the method of upgrades each attribute on its own but for a system like that to actually work the games logic would have to be completely changed. This system would definitely have to have archetypes that cap people out.

[Black Bruce Wayne]

Quote: Originally Posted by Housh123

Ok so 2k17 ran on group upgrades. Shooting, rebounding, playmaking ect. So lets list every attribute that you can have: Shot close Shot off dribble mid range Shot off dribble 3 Standing layup Driving layup Standing dunk Driving dunk Contact Dunk Contested shot midrange Open shot midrange Contested shot 3 Open shot 3 Post hook Post fade Post control Speed Strength Box out offensive rebound defensive rebound box out Ball control pass vision pass IQ pass accuracy speed with ball Lateral quickness pass perception block shot contest Steal defensive consistency on ball IQ Pick and roll IQ Help D Low post IQ Acceleration Vertical Ok so if you could upgrade each attribute individually what ways do you think the 2k community would ruin the game? I know its a weird question to ask but its one the development team should ask themselves before every tweak. Now I am not talking about what kind of combinations could make 1 or 2 players really cheesy. I'm talking about what methods would the community use as a whole that would lead to the game being unenjoyable. I see this upgrade method proposed a lot on this board and I want to really dive into if it truly is a good method. So off the top Id guess that everyone in the whole game would be able to shoot 3s. This would get annoying fast. Also this would make playing with 12 year old randoms who don't know how to play D unbearable. Can you picture having to guard 5 guys on the court out to the 3pt line. Letting everyone upgrade their 3 to 99 would really hurt the game. The next thing I want to point out is everyone and their mama would have their steal maxed out. If you think reaching is bad now, picture the individual upgrade system where literally everyone in the game has a 99 steal, block, lateral quickness, and on ball D. If foul logic was not also tweaked to accommodate this change the game could literally be unplayable. They would have to rename the game to NBA 2k ReachFest 2018. The final thing I want to go over is literally everyone would have 99 speed. This in itself could make the game unplayable. You wouldn't be able to beat anyone on a fast break. Guys could close out to every 3 point attempt. You'd be getting blocked way more. Big men with 99 block, would be getting blocks they realistically shouldn't get, the game would be horrible. I'm actually for the method of upgrades each attribute on its own but for a system like that to actually work the games logic would have to be completely changed. This system would definitely have to have archetypes that cap people out.

See people complained about just this, so they made archetypes and now people don't want that. Not the majority of people, but mostly the causals.

[Housh123]

Quote: Originally Posted by Black Bruce Wayne

See people complained about just this, so they made archetypes and now people don't want that. Not the majority of people, but mostly the causals.

The most fun iv had was when MyCareer was MyPlayer in 2k10 when there was no restrictions to what you could become. That game also actually had on ball D so even tho everyone was maxed out if you had stick skills you could kill people.

[Black Bruce Wayne]

Quote: Originally Posted by Housh123

The most fun iv had was when MyCareer was MyPlayer in 2k10 when there was no restrictions to what you could become.

This was fine with me too. Then MyPark came along and everything changed.

[awg811]

Quote: Originally Posted by Housh123

Ok so 2k17 ran on group upgrades. Shooting, rebounding, playmaking ect. So lets list every attribute that you can have: Shot close Shot off dribble mid range Shot off dribble 3 Standing layup Driving layup Standing dunk Driving dunk Contact Dunk Contested shot midrange Open shot midrange Contested shot 3 Open shot 3 Post hook Post fade Post control Speed Strength Box out offensive rebound defensive rebound box out Ball control pass vision pass IQ pass accuracy speed with ball Lateral quickness pass perception block shot contest Steal defensive consistency on ball IQ Pick and roll IQ Help D Low post IQ Acceleration Vertical Ok so if you could upgrade each attribute individually what ways do you think the 2k community would ruin the game? I know its a weird question to ask but its one the development team should ask themselves before every tweak. Now I am not talking about what kind of combinations could make 1 or 2 players really cheesy. I'm talking about what methods would the community use as a whole that would lead to the game being unenjoyable. I see this upgrade method proposed a lot on this board and I want to really dive into if it truly is a good method. So off the top Id guess that everyone in the whole game would be able to shoot 3s. This would get annoying fast. Also this would make playing with 12 year old randoms who don't know how to play D unbearable. Can you picture having to guard 5 guys on the court out to the 3pt line. Letting everyone upgrade their 3 to 99 would really hurt the game. The next thing I want to point out is everyone and their mama would have their steal maxed out. If you think reaching is bad now, picture the individual upgrade system where literally everyone in the game has a 99 steal, block, lateral quickness, and on ball D. If foul logic was not also tweaked to accommodate this change the game could literally be unplayable. They would have to rename the game to NBA 2k ReachFest 2018. The final thing I want to go over is literally everyone would have 99 speed. This in itself could make the game unplayable. You wouldn't be able to beat anyone on a fast break. Guys could close out to every 3 point attempt. You'd be getting blocked way more. Big men with 99 block, would be getting blocks they realistically shouldn't get, the game would be horrible. I'm actually for the method of upgrades each attribute on its own but for a system like that to actually work the games logic would have to be completely changed. This system would definitely have to have archetypes that cap people out.

They could break apart the upgrade attributes without allowing people to max out each individual attribute.
Things like height, weight, position, and play style could all determine what should be capped and how high.
Similar to how it is now, but you wouldn't have to upgrade off the dribble shots in order to upgrade close shot. What kind of sense does that even make?
You have a center that can't shoot close shots because he can't upgrade his shot off the dribble past a 60 or whatever it is.
Close shots are the bread and butter of nearly every center, but in 2k very few even have the option of being able to hit them.

Breaking apart the attributes would allow for much more diversity.

[Hustle Westbrook]

I don't see why having individual attributes means there would be no attribute caps lol.

[Dyslexicphish]

I think a huge hurdle is the fact height still matters so much in 2k. With upgrading individual attributes you're just asking for so called "demigods" to return. I could see guys making myplayers with max height with attribute points just in physical attributes (speed, vertical, acceleration etc) and jump shooting and just utterly breaking the game.

It's all about balance. Predicting every shortcoming of the system is difficult. Predicting how people will take advantage of said shortcomings even more so.

[bottledwaterfan25]

Quote: Originally Posted by Housh123

Ok so 2k17 ran on group upgrades. Shooting, rebounding, playmaking ect. So lets list every attribute that you can have: Shot close Shot off dribble mid range Shot off dribble 3 Standing layup Driving layup Standing dunk Driving dunk Contact Dunk Contested shot midrange Open shot midrange Contested shot 3 Open shot 3 Post hook Post fade Post control Speed Strength Box out offensive rebound defensive rebound box out Ball control pass vision pass IQ pass accuracy speed with ball Lateral quickness pass perception block shot contest Steal defensive consistency on ball IQ Pick and roll IQ Help D Low post IQ Acceleration Vertical Ok so if you could upgrade each attribute individually what ways do you think the 2k community would ruin the game? I know its a weird question to ask but its one the development team should ask themselves before every tweak. Now I am not talking about what kind of combinations could make 1 or 2 players really cheesy. I'm talking about what methods would the community use as a whole that would lead to the game being unenjoyable. I see this upgrade method proposed a lot on this board and I want to really dive into if it truly is a good method. So off the top Id guess that everyone in the whole game would be able to shoot 3s. This would get annoying fast. Also this would make playing with 12 year old randoms who don't know how to play D unbearable. Can you picture having to guard 5 guys on the court out to the 3pt line. Letting everyone upgrade their 3 to 99 would really hurt the game. The next thing I want to point out is everyone and their mama would have their steal maxed out. If you think reaching is bad now, picture the individual upgrade system where literally everyone in the game has a 99 steal, block, lateral quickness, and on ball D. If foul logic was not also tweaked to accommodate this change the game could literally be unplayable. They would have to rename the game to NBA 2k ReachFest 2018. The final thing I want to go over is literally everyone would have 99 speed. This in itself could make the game unplayable. You wouldn't be able to beat anyone on a fast break. Guys could close out to every 3 point attempt. You'd be getting blocked way more. Big men with 99 block, would be getting blocks they realistically shouldn't get, the game would be horrible. I'm actually for the method of upgrades each attribute on its own but for a system like that to actually work the games logic would have to be completely changed. This system would definitely have to have archetypes that cap people out.

I think that you're making a lot of assumptions there for the absolute worst case scenario. I think that you would be surprised how much variation there would be among users with how they upgrade. You say that everyone would automatically have 99 3 point, 99 speed, 99 steal, but that is assuming that there are zero caps put in place. That is also assuming that each of those categories would have the same upgrade cost as every other category.

I think that with some general caps in place to prevent the pure cheese, that would not be the case. I also think that 2k could have this system of individual upgrades work, if they assign a higher cost to upgrading the most effective categories; meaning that, for example, it costs more of your attribute points to upgrade 3 point, and speed, than it would to upgrade passing accuracy, or boxout stats.

In order for this to work, there would have to be caps put in place to prevent 7'0 tall demigods, and to limit people from being all around gods, maxed in several categories.

What I don't like about the current system in 2k17 is that there is no variety. I think it's a shame that you literally can't even recreate above average real life NBA players. With a system of upgrading individual attributes, I could finally make someone like Joe Ingles for example. Joe Ingles is great at shooting 3's, is a good defender, and also a good playmaker, and passer. He can do a bit of everything, but at the same time he's not athletic. That's just one example of a player I would be able to make if we were not restricted so much. I used this example, because it's a type of player I would love to play with online, someone who is technically very skilled, but at the same time, he's not fast, or athletic, isn't able to throw down dunks, so it wouldn't be overpowered, or a demigod by any means.

To your concern though, I will say that probably the "cheese" builds that would run rampant in the 2k community would probably be some variation of a player that is fast, can shoot 3's, and has a crazy handle or something like that. Which, I can see your point, but at the same time, I literally do not care what others are doing. As long as I can make what I want, I am not afraid of playing anyone else's build, because I know I can counter it based on my own unique skill set. The more freedom we have, the more fun this mode is, and the more variety and uniqueness that is available will really make this mode awesome to play.