How should progression work?

[freekbird]

I have been playing sports games for many years now and have always drawn the most enjoyment out of the franchise modes, like many on OS. One of the nice things about modern games vs the older ones is that they tend to be less linear which is excellent, a great example being how injuries can derail a career in NBA2k. That being said, they still have a long way to go to reflect how seemingly random the NBA season can be.

Things like hidden ratings, letter grades based on hired scouts evaluations, coaches and scheme having a much larger impact...I have many ideas on how I, personally, would like the franchise modes to be laid out, but this thread is going to focus mostly on player progression. I personally feel that the "Potential" rating is very limiting and needs to go. While I understand that a player who has an 80 potential is certainly not guaranteed to reach that number, if a player has a potential of 70 there is no way he will hit 80.

In the real NBA players with physical gifts are considered high potential players because they have the "tools" to be great. In reality pretty much any player could develop skills like shooting ability, bball IQ, passing ability and even strength. The only things MOSTLY set in stone are their size and speed/jumping ability. In real life pretty much any player has the potential to reach great heights (which is why some physically gifted players receive chance after chance to prove themselves) but in the game this is not so.

I personally feel every player should have the theoretical potential to be an all-star caliber player but that potential should be tempered by variables such as coaching staff, coaching system, player attitude and work ethic, teammates leadership and teaching abilities and of course injuries. After all, this is why teams take chances on young players, because you just never know what they could turn into.

In the game, for example, a player like Frank Kaminsky is extremely limited in his potential...he will never be more than a role player. In real life, while that is certainly his possible cap, he could become anything. As a young player with a proven track record of improvement (look at his freshman - senior seasons in college) whos to say he couldnt become a great player with the right combination of teaching, coaching, training, teammates and health. This is true with any young player. For the first few seasons of his career Cody Zeller looked to be a kind of crappy PF that looked lost on the court, and the game started treating him as such. Late last season he was moved to center and has absolutely blossomed in his new role and is one of the most important players on the Hornets roster. (Obviously Im a Hornets fan, I just use their players as examples because I know them) Kemba Walker could never have improved as much as he has the last 2 years under the current progression system. MKG has the work ethic and physical tools to because a superstar at the age of 23 if his shot got fixed, but in the game he will never be more than a low 80's overall rating.

Im sorry about the rambling post I just kinda want to get my ideas out there at least as I think it would improve the way progression works. I would also like to see certain players put in the right position (or wrong) make fairly large jumps (or drops) in ratings ala Jimmy Butler a couple years ago.

How do you think progression should work? Are you happy with the relative linearity of it now or, like me, do you just want something more? Thanks for letting me vent my thoughts...I have many more about unimportant things like sports video games : )

[Champion8877]

One of the things I liked in this years Madden was the dynamic development trait. Winning player of the week or a season award gave your player a chance of getting his development bumped up a notch. I think a few bad weeks would also give the chance of lowering the rating. I think 2k could implement something like this for the potential and make it work even better than it does in Madden


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[turty11]

im not a fan of how 2k development works this year, last year you could target individual areas of game and really develop a player in it, but this year putting that many of the training points in 1 area heavily penalizes the rest of them and you just get massive decreases to things.

i would love for 2k to add in drills - we used to have these right? where we could take a player into a drill and develop an area of his game while not penalizing the rest of his ratings..not to mention if i turn a guy from a 50 3pt rating to an 80 over the course of his career it would be nice to see his 3pt tendency steadily rise as he becomes a better shooter.

[SirGaryColeman]

For your MyPlayer (MyCareer, Pro-Am, Park) it should change from "get better by doing same move" to "get better by gaining Experience Points."

You could earn EXP the same way you earn VC - just by playing ANY mode. And then you could convert those points into Attributes.

This would mean I could level up by having fun... whether from playing park games to playing Play Now to playing All Star Team-up - I'd always be progressing.

That is a "grind" I can get behind.

[FSanchez12]

Oddly enough, I was thinking about this in the shower last night. Why not integrate the 2K brand into the game itself. You get tweets in MyLeague and MyGM about new mock drafts and player rankings. Why not little blurbs about players getting adjusted for overall in 2K on roster updates that coincide with the player's actual development?


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[freekbird]

The dynamic trait thing is interesting...I'm usually not a fan of performance raising ratings instead of the other way around but if done right it could work I think.

For me personally the XP earning would kill the game for me. I know a lot of people are into that kind of thing which is why Madden uses it, but I havent played more than a season of a Madden franchise since they started doing it. I get the whole "earn XP while having fun" but to me it feels less like a sports sim and more like an RPG and it sucks the fun right out.

Its a fine balance for sure...it needs to be part random, part player potential and part a bunch of other factors, without players going up too much or going down too much season to season...not to mention in season trainings. Definitely not an easy balance to strike but I just feel there is so much more potential there.

Ive always thought going to more broad letter grade ratings based on your scouts skills instead of showing the actual number ratings would make things a lot easier for the masses to see and lead to a larger variety of players being used. That way you arent forced to look at an overall rating (even if you know it means nothing in the grand scheme). Youd actually have to play with the players/watch games to select who to play/sign.

[turty11]

actually i think there is a far simpler "fix" to progression.

take the potential rating and break it down into categories.

Offense Potential:
Shooting, Finishing, Playmaking, Rebounding, Footwork

Defense Potential:
Perimeter, Paint, Help, Rebounding, Footwork

Body Potential: -- yes, nba players grow and gain weight..in 2k they dont
Height, Weight

Athleticism: - general potential for speed/quickness/vert

[freekbird]

While I do think thats better than what we have, and I would love if a player got fat and has his athleticism drop (Diaw anyone?) its still a pretty linear system.

Who's to say what a player is capable of, thats why there needs to be many variables and randomness attached. Noone expected Jimmy Butler or Kawhi Leonard to learn how to shoot, much less as fast as they did? There have been many defensive specialists who learned to knock down a corner 3 later in their careers who couldnt hit the broad side of a barn 2 years prior.

Using another player Im very familiar with, MKG would have a very low jump shot/3 point potential rating, because his shot is broken. What if he gets a shooting guru and completely revamps his form (he was actually doing this under Mark Price till his shoulder injuries) and became a good shooter? Is it likely? No...is it possible? Sure, happens fairly often with varying degrees of success.

Theres a lot to it but I think the less linear it is the better...Every play-through should be different. In one franchise Anthony Bennett should be able to find the right situation to become a 20/10 player, the next 2 franchises he could become a decent role player and the next 3 he's out of the league in 2 years.