Sam Pham illustrates what's wrong with 2K17

[isdatyt]

In this video Sam Pham covers many of the absurd AI decisions that make this game rage inducing. Horrible defensive logic that makes this game unplayable at times, even with his excellent defensive settings and after playing about 6 online games after patch 1.05 I can confirm that all of these issues, and more, still exist in 2K17. It really drains the fun out of the game, even when you win, when you or your opponent scores off of BS CPU controlled player decisions. These in the video as well as things like turbo cheese, defenders not recognizing threats, and many other glitches and mishaps are simply inexcusable at this point.

[prestwood90]

I think the defense has improved with the patch, it's not perfect but neither is nba defense, there's blunders and mistakes in the nba

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

[isdatyt]

Quote: Originally Posted by prestwood90

I think the defense has improved with the patch, it's not perfect but neither is nba defense, there's blunders and mistakes in the nba Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

It hasn't at all. Maybe in modes like MyCareer where the entire defense is AI/CPU but in Online modes against other players, non-player-controlled defenders are just as lost as ever. I've been playing MyTeam Online all morning since the patch and it's still horrendous.

[The 24th Letter]

I play online and think the defense has improved with the patch, but it still has a way to go._.

I was hoping Pham touched on some deeper things.._his first two examples were a bit meh for me but everything after was on point and I am glad he put it out there.


2k seems to be bringing this out of even the most even keeled guys this year, lol

[prestwood90]

Quote: Originally Posted by The 24th Letter

I play online and think the defense has improved with the patch, but it still has a way to go._. I was hoping Pham touched on some deeper things.._his first two examples were a bit meh for me but everything after was on point and I am glad he put it out there. 2k seems to be bringing this out of even the most even keeled guys this year, lol

Lol I think sam is pissed because OG told him he didn't know what he was talking about on Twitter the other day lol

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

[ffaacc03]

Quote: Originally Posted by isdatyt

In this video Sam Pham covers many of the absurd AI decisions that make this game rage inducing. Horrible defensive logic that makes this game unplayable at times, even with his excellent defensive settings and after playing about 6 online games after patch 1.05 I can confirm that all of these issues, and more, still exist in 2K17. It really drains the fun out of the game, even when you win, when you or your opponent scores off of BS CPU controlled player decisions. These in the video as well as things like turbo cheese, defenders not recognizing threats, and many other glitches and mishaps are simply inexcusable at this point.

Even tho he is right for the majority of the issues, lets play devil's advocate ... the first 2 plays highlighted as issues have reasons as to why they resulted in what we saw:

1st play at 1:12, that is not a contest, he is by the side of the shooter, not in front of him, not even partially to block his sight to the bucket, that is why the AI decided to try a contest to the unopened player. On past 2Ks it was considered a good contest, not anymore.

The 2nd play after that one, even tho I agree about the jogging of Sams AI defender, once it was approaching to the ball handler the AI thought Sam (handling the big man) was in a position to do a better contest to the shooter, yet Sam didnt, so the shooter made the attempt unguarded.

Now, let's do a little more research, what were the D settings like ? Were the help AI set to No Help or was it set to always help, if so, that is why, the AI believed on the 1st occasion that a contest was needed as there was no contest, on the 2nd occasion the AI believed that the human players was going to help, thus it didnt.

Are there issues, yes, but one has to let anger go fully, before making judgements to further and deeply identify issues so 2K can address it, sometimes we let sentiments blur our judgement and thus cause noise within the message we sent to 2K.

Again, there are issues but those 2, IMHO, weren't and aren't part of what is wrong.

Also we have to consider how there have been made huge advancements on the AI logic from the D side by some worthy roster editors (Simworld Roster guys), just by editing the attributes and tendencies, one has to definitively take into account the values of all players involved in a play to fully see if it is a fault in the logic or a fault in the players that dont have the necessary values to rotate well or not to ... as much as I like online balance, there has to be player differentiation in all levels, bad defensive players should portrait that on the 2K court even if it means some form of disadvantage for those who play with lesser teams ... now, do the scale for assigning values may need a revision ? yes and that is assuming values are assigned by merit on a player to player bases, which sadly isn't the case as well as with many other attributes/tendencies.

Hope to not be seen as troll or as bashing Sam or diminishing his outstanding contributions for the OS/2K/online community. Am just giving a different point of view, so we all try to help 2K identify its specific areas that need improvement.

[EarvGotti]

Sam posted this video before the patch dropped. So lets see if he has a change of heart now.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

Quote: Originally Posted by ffaacc03

Even tho he is right for the majority of the issues, lets play devil's advocate ... the first 2 plays highlighted as issues have reasons as to why they resulted in what we saw: 1st play at 1:12, that is not a contest, he is by the side of the shooter, not in front of him, not even partially to block his sight to the bucket, that is why the AI decided to try a contest to the unopened player. On past 2Ks it was considered a good contest, not anymore. The 2nd play after that one, even tho I agree about the jogging of Sams AI defender, once it was approaching to the ball handler the AI thought Sam (handling the big man) was in a position to do a better contest to the shooter, yet Sam didnt, so the shooter made the attempt unguarded. Now, let's do a little more research, what were the D settings like ? Were the help AI set to No Help or was it set to always help, if so, that is why, the AI believed on the 1st occasion that a contest was needed as there was no contest, on the 2nd occasion the AI believed that the human players was going to help, thus it didnt. Are there issues, yes, but one has to let anger go fully, before making judgements to further and deeply identify issues so 2K can address it, sometimes we let sentiments blur our judgement and thus cause noise within the message we sent to 2K. Again, there are issues but those 2, IMHO, weren't and aren't part of what is wrong. Also we have to consider how there have been made huge advancements on the AI logic from the D side by some worthy roster editors (Simworld Roster guys), just by editing the attributes and tendencies, one has to definitively take into account the values of all players involved in a play to fully see if it is a fault in the logic or a fault in the players that dont have the necessary values to rotate well or not to ... as much as I like online balance, there has to be player differentiation in all levels, bad defensive players should portrait that on the 2K court even if it means some form of disadvantage for those who play with lesser teams ... now, do the scale for assigning values may need a revision ? yes and that is assuming values are assigned by merit on a player to player bases, which sadly isn't the case as well as with many other attributes/tendencies. Hope to not be seen as troll or as bashing Sam or diminishing his outstanding contributions for the OS/2K/online community. Am just giving a different point of view, so we all try to help 2K identify its specific areas that need improvement.

1. The green under the player tells you that you are in range and are actively defending the player. His problem was that Rip decides to stand there and pretend that Klay didn't reach his man (albeit late) and awkwardly put his hand up several feet away which will do nothing, leading to an open 3

2. That's not the case. The game is even telling Sam the guy he is controlling is supposed to be guarding the inbound passer who is still down the court. RIP is just idly standing out of position for no reason and then very idiotically starts slowly shuffling to start playing defence. Why would the AI purposely force you to have to pick up a guard with a center for NO reason when the person supposed to be guarding him is not occupied (its literally 4 on 3 in favour of the defence). CPU RIP is literally shuffling his feet in defensive stance while the ballhandler (his man) runs to an open spot at the 3pt line. I can't see any defence for that logic

Based off of his previous videos, I'm assuming he's using help and no rotation. For the first play, it looks like the CPU rotates and leaves JR. For the second I have no clue what the CPU is doing because it made an effort to defend the player but it triggered the wrong movement animation, so I don't think it expected him to rotate at all