Greatest Problem Facing The NHL Series

[jake19ny]

The Greatest Problem Facing The NHL Series:

In light of my latest frustrations with this new tuner something dawned on me that I thought long and hard about. It may have been mentioned in passing by myself or others in the past but I think it needs serious discussion and possibly mentioned at the Game Changers Event by the representatives...DJ Neo "hint" "hint". This would probably have been better if written by a staff writer here at OS if they agreed with it but I will do my best.

It is my opinion that the greatest problem facing this series is that EA tries to make a one size fits all hockey game when it comes to Online and Offline and it simply will never work as both sides get cheated out of various aspects of the sport and or gaming.

Tuners

First off, what set me started on this was thinking about the tuners and how they were released;
1. Game released and everyone complained
2. Tuner released and Off liners enjoyed the game but Online players unhappy
3. Tuner released to address poke spamming, On liners rejoice Off liners unhappy spending 20 minutes a game in the penalty box.
4. Tuner released to reduce poke check penalties, On liners mad Off liners happy
5. Tuner released back to passive CPU Off Liners unhappy and On Liners happy

Its a vicious cycle of trying to please everyone and you cannot.

Online

Hockey might be one of the most difficult sports to achieve a quality on line experience. Anyone who has played even casually online will probably admit that most online VS games or EASHL games barely resemble anything close to real hockey. Lets face it even if your a hockey enthusiast and true sim guy, that tends to go out the window in an online game. Your playing somebody and you want to win period...You have to base your game on the way the opponent plays and deal with it that way. We have all played the guy who skates end to end with the puck and rips the money goal complained about for years. How about the guy who is highly skilled at lining up those crushing checks that frustrate you, notice he never gets called for charging or elbowing? How about in EASHL and someone playing as a D man is constantly as deep as possible in the Offensive zone because he couldn't be the winger he wanted to be. These things happen more often than not in the online experience.

I personally barely play hockey online and have never played any other sports game online but I imagine in Baseball no matter how you may want to play you have to pitch a good game. You need to make contact on the ball. You need to field well and make smart decisions throwing and base running....Like real baseball. In online football you have to throw the ball well timed. You need to run after the catch. You need to time your blitz or tackle and you need to make smart coaching calls. Like real football. I'm sure their are ways to exploit those mentioned games, there always will be but for the most part you have to play somewhat like the sport. In the NHL series you can go out there and be a menace on the ice or a hockey God and it really doesn't matter. I am not very good at the online game but have an overall winning record because despite being outshot 29-7 I got that lucky bounce off the defenders leg or that weak goal as I skated over the line and shot the puck that floated over the goalies shoulder....Yeah I'm that guy.

All that stuff mentioned above seems like I'm crapping on the Offline game and I'm not, it just is what it is. It can be a blast if you accept it for that but if your looking for a real hockey sim match up online, good luck they are hard to find.

Offline

So, how does the online game affect us off line gamers. I think the single most damaging issue caused by trying to integrate a single game into two experiences is in the AI. For starters if your into an arcade like experience offline read no further because this game will deliver that for you. If your a hardcore sim guy who loves BeaGM or Season mode our biggest gripe is the CPU Defensive AI. I find that the CPU is way to passive no matter what sliders you tweak. I don't care if your currently getting good results with your game the bottom line is the CPU simply doesn't finish checks, close off the skating lane, and they rarely initiate board play. How does this relate to online gaming? well

The number one complaint I have heard from online gamers, besides lag, is the CPU player taking a penalty behind the play...The only way to cut that down is to "Tune" the AI to reduce or eliminate that type of play that would cause the infraction it of course translates into the offline game where the CPU plays more passive as a result.

Second complaint of online gamers. Poke Spammers...They tried to address this by raising the penalty likely hood but it destroyed the offline game with every poke attempt resulting in a penalty so they toned it down much to the dismay of the online gamer. latest "tuning" the CPU simply doesn't use its stick as much. Again trying to please everyone.

How about the CPU neutral zone play? The CPU simply does not dump and chase nearly enough nor puts enough defensive pressure there. How does this relate to Online? Because "SniperGod456" would never play the game again if the CPU positioned and played proper hockey preventing him from, well.... being "SniperGod456". I have seen numerous complaints this year from EASHL players that the CPU controlled players are too good....Really?

Final Thoughts

In the end I think EA NHL16 has made a lot of positive strides and at times during tuners delivered a pretty solid game however many issues and many of them lingering issues for years, remain. I think these issues will never be resolved as long as this series tries to be two games in one. Its almost as if they need to release two separate games which will never happen. I'm not sure of the solution perhaps its as simple as creating separate tuners for online and offline. Let "SniperGod456" skate around like he's in the icecapades...Let "Crusher789" run at people all day long but create a separate offline tuner that allows the CPU to play hockey, I've seen shades of it, its there. They should also have separate rosters for online as its totally absurd that if Stamkos is out for 3 months you cant play with him against your friends online for 3 months.

Like I said one of the staff writers here could have done this more justice provided they are in agreement.

Thoughts on this? Am I crazy?

[AdamJones113]

I think you make a lot of good points, jake. There definitely is a divide between offline and online, but it isn't the one EA believes it to be. EA thinks of online as the sim area, where parameters (sliders, quit penalties, EASHL builds) are strictly defined, which in theory in turn leads to a more sim game. Now, a lot of online people definitely want to play sim—6 v 6 EASHL is the only mode in the game without the AI, thus making it the most dynamic and enjoyable without the AI problems—but so do a lot of offline players. EA thinks that offline, where sliders can be adjusted, ratings can be edited, etc, is more conducive to casual play. Yes, there are those people, but some of them have been driven off by the lack of Create-A-Team, last year's fiasco, etc (people from every facet of the game have). Which means that a lot of the remaining offliners, eg us here on OS, want a sim experience... which we aren't getting.

The simplest solution to the above-outlined tuner problem is to approach the game from a sim perspective initially. This leads more hardcore players to buy the game with the prospect of "sim." Casual players will buy it the same: they'll see the back of the box and think ooh, dynamic goalies, ooh, most realistic skating engine, and they'll buy it; the moms and grandmothers will still get it for Christmas and birthdays. Then you start the tuners, tune as much as you want... but allow us to pick our tuner offline and keep open the option to return to an old tuner online.

[GlennN]

As the saying goes, you can't please everybody. I am strictly an offline gamer, and tough I love watching the NHL, I like my videogame experience a bit faster and a bit more arcadey (if that is a word) than reality. Making a videogame more realistic isn't necessarily making the game more fun. The NHL series has gotten more lifelike, better momentum, better physics, but, frankly, the series peaked (for me) with NHL 10. Once again, I have gone back to that game and shelved 16. For me, the series needs much more player separation by attributes - that is by far my biggest complaint. The sliders also need to work better (I simply cannot get 16 to work as well for me as I have 10 working). If you ask 100 people the greatest problem, you'll probably get 90 different answers.

[scutaro]

Outside making the AI better across the board the real problem with this series is offline mode player separation. Ratings are way too bunched. As a former programmer I recognize the difficulty getting there, however if we can all agree that there is not a lot more graphics improvement available to the 'experience' because with limited complaints, EA really has the presentation nailed, the effort should be getting AI bad guys and my AI teammates to play the same game I am and refresh the PBP.

I think the basic stuff is all there, and recognize as well that without some flash and dash it is difficult to keep getting 60 bucks a year from people for an improved stick logo or jersey.

[Simple Mathematics]

I'd love to get a crack at their rosters for a year and hear feedback from everyone.

I am also looking for a more complete experience in BaGM. I want scouting to be expanded greatly. I want to view stats for the next crop of rookies and I want to make decisions based off of that. I want my scouts to tell me the intangibles and their potentials.

I also want a better pre-season. In Eastside Hockey Manager, I LOVE their training camp before the season begins. I like how you can have guys on try-out contracts. It adds so much to the mode.

I need a better trade deadline and draft-day package for trades. I want to feel the pressure to deal guys and get what I need. I want there to be buyers and sellers. I want veterans on their last year of their contract to be big targets by other teams.

I want free agency improvements. You should have to compete in bidding wars with other teams for players. Players should want certain things in their desired team (contender, young, old, guys from his country, etc.).

I want to view stats from other leagues from around the world like the SHL.

I want to be able to play in international tournaments.

I want relocation and expansion/contraction.

I want mid-season contract extensions.

I want no trade/no movement clauses.

I want injuries that put guys out for several months or for the entire season.

I want the announcers to recognize the past and comment on it. Like if a player had done historically well against the team you're playing. Or if a guy has been on a hot streak. Or to recognize that a player was just traded.

I want custom Cup celebrations. Let us skate around with the cup and have buttons to raise it, kiss it, hand it off to a teammate, etc. Let us determine when it is over by pressing start. Then the players gather around for the team photo.

It's 2016. This is all do-able.

[MizzouRah]

Quote: Originally Posted by GlennN

As the saying goes, you can't please everybody. I am strictly an offline gamer, and tough I love watching the NHL, I like my videogame experience a bit faster and a bit more arcadey (if that is a word) than reality. Making a videogame more realistic isn't necessarily making the game more fun. The NHL series has gotten more lifelike, better momentum, better physics, but, frankly, the series peaked (for me) with NHL 10. Once again, I have gone back to that game and shelved 16. For me, the series needs much more player separation by attributes - that is by far my biggest complaint. The sliders also need to work better (I simply cannot get 16 to work as well for me as I have 10 working). If you ask 100 people the greatest problem, you'll probably get 90 different answers.

This is a good post, I like the same things, faster pace, more hitting (although the real NHL has higher hits per game than I do, probably due to the length of a real hockey game vs a video game).

I will say though, I'm thoroughly enjoying NHL as an offline BeaGM player. There are things I want changed/added but I've had some really superb gaming moments with NHL 16.

[jack72]

Lots of great points.
I hope that EA listens to what is said here.


Unfortunately what we will get out of this from EA is .....crickets chirping.

[jake19ny]

Quote: Originally Posted by jack72

Lots of great points. I hope that EA listens to what is said here. Unfortunately what we will get out of this from EA is .....crickets chirping.

I don't believe that....and trust me I have been as unhappy as most hardcore hockey fans but I think EA has made a legit attempt at listening to us. It's not that they don't care. I'm a realist and hockey is low on the sports gaming food chain they have a budget and try to fit in what they can. Unfortunately not everyone thinks like me. Many do but just as many don't. Like a previous poster said, to paraphrase, a bunch of people can have a bunch of different complaints....that's why I'm leading toward better slider implementation and the choice of tuners....to beat a dead horse, one size does not fit all.