Wow ! Human goalie are a mess and needs a lot of tweak

[Drakar]

My credentials : I played every single EA Sports NHL games since it's infancy on the Sega Genesis. I played through the years on SNES, PC, XBOX, X360 and Xbox One. I played goalie since it first became an option. I was a division 1 goalie for NHL 13/14 with a GAA of 3.00 and Save % of .085. I wasn't the best goalie but I was good enough.

I played 6 games last night and my first impression was not very good. I understand that EA wants to change the position to be a more skilled based position. I applaud that effort but I think the problem lies in the execution not the intention. If you want to incentivizes the community to play goalie, you have to make human goalie better than AI goalie. Otherwise there is almost no incentives at the highest level to do so. In the past 2 years that I played at the highest competitive level, team would have their goalie quit in the middle of the game if they were losing. At 80% of the time, I always end up facing an AI goalie. A strong penalty needs to be imposed to the opposite that have their goalie quit on purpose. That's besides the point. Let's move on to why goalie are a mess.

Control Scheme :
The new control scheme is really a mess. You need to hold LT (X1 platform ) at all time if you want to move normally and release the trigger to more in bigger strides. It should be the exact opposite.

Left bumper is the hug post. That's not too bad but you have to be in the exact position to work otherwise it doesn't work. You end up in a really bad position and leaving a big gap. It's very difficult to move in the crest and hug the post to defend against the wrap around. The second you are a little too far in your protected zone, you are screwed. I was struggling last night to consistently hug the post like I wanted. It makes it even more difficult because most of the time I have to hold LT and Left Bumper and move the left stick. It's a little crowded for me to do everything with just 1 hand. hence my complaint about the movement control.

Right stick : It's actually not bad but since people like to snipe top corner. You really need to be aggressive on the shooter to make it work and you leave yourself very vulnerable. It's hard to remove last years habit with the anticipation skill. This will require time to get used too.

General movement
I mention in the earlier paragraph how the control scheme really mess with your movement. In the action, it gets even more difficult. I experience many times where my goalie would pivot/rotate instead of sliding from left to right. It left the goal totally open. Other team member had the same event happen to them. While the AI goalie slide right and left like it's second nature, the human goalie doesn't. I understand I am not supposed to stop all one timer but the AI goalie does consistently. We need more fluidity when sliding or at least on part with the AI counterpart.

Goalie build
I played as butterfly and hybrid goalie last night. There was not noticeable difference between the two build. I didn't feel like one build or another was better to fit a specific style. I think it's related to the jerkiness of the goalie movement makes almost impossible for goalie build to really make a difference.

At the end of the night. I was fairly discourage. It was a scoring fest. I am sure I can improve overtime but in a competitive world, there is no such thing as time to improve. You either good from the start or you get discarded. I don't see any real competitive team using an human goalie in a foreseeable future. They are still way too difficult to master and they are not better than AI goalie. I know I've made that point several time but it's very important one. You have to incentivize player to do so. As long as there is not penalty for human goalie quitting in the middle of the game. This abuse will go on and on. I've already seen it 3 times out of 4 last night.

The difficult of playing human goalie this year will drive most casual to just give up playing that position. It will be even worst in drop-in as most player have little to no patience if a human goalie doesn't stand on his head and stop every single puck. It will be a nightmare. I am hoping that Sean and his team are reading this post and see what is the outcome of their decision.

[VTKombat]

I agree with all of this. I like the old control scheme better. At least you had complete control of your goalie. Now you are all over the place. Holding the left trigger down makes him slow down a bit but it's still stuttery and not instantly reactive.

Goalie is a tough position. Everyone gets mad when you make a mistake but the skaters can turn over puck after puck with terrible passes and calls and feel no shame. If you make 2 mistakes along with a few you had no chance on, youve given 5 goals and they **** on you. No one mentions the terrible defensive players that allow cherry pickers or the crap passes in the neutral zone that result in a turnover that gets turned into a 3 on 1 (providing at least one of your D is playing his position) goalies get little leniency on mistakes and makes it not fun to play at times. Now with the terrible controls you stand more of a chance of getting scored on and facing more criticism.

[TDKing]

All you goalies are saying the same Thing makes you wonder if any Game Changers actually played goalie ? Did they not see what you guys are seeing or did ea just ignore them ?

[Drakar]

Quote: Originally Posted by TDKing

All you goalies are saying the same Thing makes you wonder if any Game Changers actually played goalie ? Did they not see what you guys are seeing or did ea just ignore them ?

It's very discouraging at this point.

[Madwolf]

Quote: Originally Posted by TDKing

All you goalies are saying the same Thing makes you wonder if any Game Changers actually played goalie ? Did they not see what you guys are seeing or did ea just ignore them ?

The Game Changers did play goalie. They said it would be an adjustment period, and when they first played they were getting scored on left and right as well.

[Drakar]

Quote: Originally Posted by Madwolf

The Game Changers did play goalie. They said it would be an adjustment period, and when they first played they were getting scored on left and right as well.

This is more than an adjustment period. It's too easy to exploit an human goalie. The jerkiness of the movement makes its almost impossible to compete against AI goalie. If we cannot be as good or better than AI goalie, there is no need for human goalie.

I am wondering if you ever played goalie before making your comments because an experience goalie, like me, are unhappy with the control scheme and overall movement in general. I understood the less is more philosophy and they want to punish human goalie that commits too much one way or another but the game doesn't allow me to commit consistently when I want too (Hug post per example). I often get rotated/pivot instead of moving from left to right.

[superbus]

Quote: Originally Posted by Drakar

This is more than an adjustment period. It's too easy to exploit an human goalie. The jerkiness of the movement makes its almost impossible to compete against AI goalie. If we cannot be as good or better than AI goalie, there is no need for human goalie. I am wondering if you ever played goalie before making your comments because an experience goalie, like me, are unhappy with the control scheme and overall movement in general. I understood the less is more philosophy and they want to punish human goalie that commits too much one way or another but the game doesn't allow me to commit consistently when I want too (Hug post per example). I often get rotated/pivot instead of moving from left to right.

(My own credentials: actual, real life, formerly high-level goaltender. Currently a college-level linesman)

What they're trying to do with the the goaltender controls is to mimmick how an actual NHL goaltender moves. The idea is rock-solid. Remember how Madden, years ago, made a big deal out of saying "when our players put a foot down, it'll actually be putting a foot down"? It was to remove the feeling that we were playing with one of those magnetized football games from the 70s. Players had a rough adjustment at first, but they did adjust. I get the hint that many good goaltenders in past editions of the video game never actually played goal on an ice sheet or a SportCourt.

The problem really isn't the control's foundation. I really like where they're going. T-pushing is not meant to be a quick adjustment; it's meant for "the puck just went side to side and I need to quickly adjust". What IS a problem is multi-faceted:

1) Some of the controls are poorly conceived. The LT for shuffling is bad; if you have to make that a bumper, make it LB, but the best case here would be to make shuffling the default, and have T-pushes be controlled by a bumper. Another bad idea was making LB hug the posts. In addition to LT being shuffle control - and goalies are always shuffling - it's just sluggish. I tried this last night a few times, and got burned a lot.

2) There's a lot of slippery play. Much of the skating is too sensitive, particularly for butterfly goaltenders. That's something that just needs a tweak, and maybe a control change as mentioned above.

3) There's a half-second or so lag to motion, it seems; as in, you press a button, it takes a half-second or so to register, and then you're so desperate to get back into position that you over-adjust, over-correct, and now the offence is shooting into an empty net. I wonder how much of this is server strain; this IS a beta for a mode that couldn't make it into last year's game, after all.

4) Goaltending has fundamentally changed, but the offence hasn't. That means a lot of the tricks that players have been using still work, and work even better than they used to because it's such a PITA to react to it. I had a play last night where some guy came in, started skating backwards while carrying the puck, on a breakaway (my defence was literally faceplanted, like they were diving at the puck, at centre-ice. Ah, random games...). I knew what he (a lefty) was doing; he was going to pull it hard to his forehand. But I literally couldn't get over; I hit the button, my guy stood there, and he shot it into an empty net, past my guy who was now in desperation mode.

The ideas are great, but the controls need tweaking, and some button changes. This is the start of something great if they can get it right; far better than the old setup, which was basically "sit on the goal line in the butterfly and let everyone hit me".

[jesushaxyou]

I totally agree that it needs some tweaking. However after playing a bit now I feel I have gotten used to it and I have more control of my goalie. In nhl 16 for the goalies less is more.