Comparing Ignite Engine, How FIFA can improve Madden.

[dghustla]

I was fortunate enough to get a PS4 at launch and I purchased both FIFA and Madden. This is my first time buying FIFA on a system in years (I have purchased FIFA IOS many years in a row). I want to share and compare a two observations since they are both using the "same engine". This is strictly game play related.

Player Movement/Collisions:

1) Player size, the players in FIFA are perfectly sized to allow maximum usage of the field when you are in space in a 1-on-1 you know it and you immediately are punished by an Ill-timed slide tackle. As your opponent runs around you. Madden has improved in this area a little, but i still feel like there is a phantom "tackle assist" system in place where players can simply lunge at the ball carrier when they are close regardless of what direction or angle they are facing and make the tackle. This is also compounded by player size. Since Madden players are so big when they attempt a diving tackle they can cover 7-10 yards.
2) Minor collisions; Madden has done a good job mastering major collision. Big hits and trucks look cool. But it's the minor collisions that are apart of Football that Madden is missing. After pressing at the line, there is no organic contact in madden down field between the WR and CB, (the only contact would be players running into each other) we don't see the CB reach out and grab the WRs jersey to re-route him or any hand fighting/arm bars down field. If there is a jump ball 90% of the time the WR and CB trigger the same animation. There should 100 animations just for those situations alone, (WR pushing the DB in the back before elevating comes to mind, Golden Tate anyone?). FIFA, standing tackle system and minor collision system could be excellent ground work to re-create these type of standing contact interactions that aren't tackles.

Ball Physics/Ball in the Air:
1) Madden must adopt ball physics next year. I Don't think they need FIFA's system but they must have one of their own. I wouldn't even be opposed to a possible Power meter on throws. Adding a new element to the passing game. other than hold for bullet and tap for lob. That system is outdated and needs to be re-imagined. Possibly replace "bullet" passes with "straight" passes and move that to the left joystick, where up or upward diagonals are lobs and middle direction are straight passes. The duration of the button hold could determine the velocity/accuracy. This would create more over/under throws all over the field.
2) FIFA Header system for pass catching: I don't know how much this system can directly correlate to Madden but it's proof that you can have a system where the ball is in the air and two opposing players are playing the ball in two totally different ways. Using different animations, while being in contact with each other. I've seen one guy going for a header while the other attempting to gain position for a bicycle kick. Madden can never be considered a true simulation game until WR and CB aren't mirror images of each other.

[Hilldog39]

I totally agree with everything here, it was definitely a good read. It will be interesting to see how they incorporate the Ignite Engine between the different games.

What I would love to see, but I never see it happening, is EA using the Frostbite Engine. Seeing they are using it in Need For Speed, why not incorporate it into Madden or Fifa. Imagine how much better the stadiums and sidelines would look with the Frostbite Engine.

[nyrangers81]

Well both FIFA and Madden continue to have non existent referees so they have that going for them!

[SB2G]

Quote: Originally Posted by dghustla

I was fortunate enough to get a PS4 at launch and I purchased both FIFA and Madden. This is my first time buying FIFA on a system in years (I have purchased FIFA IOS many years in a row). I want to share and compare a two observations since they are both using the "same engine". This is strictly game play related. Player Movement/Collisions: 1) Player size, the players in FIFA are perfectly sized to allow maximum usage of the field when you are in space in a 1-on-1 you know it and you immediately are punished by an Ill-timed slide tackle. As your opponent runs around you. Madden has improved in this area a little, but i still feel like there is a phantom "tackle assist" system in place where players can simply lunge at the ball carrier when they are close regardless of what direction or angle they are facing and make the tackle. This is also compounded by player size. Since Madden players are so big when they attempt a diving tackle they can cover 7-10 yards. 2) Minor collisions; Madden has done a good job mastering major collision. Big hits and trucks look cool. But it's the minor collisions that are apart of Football that Madden is missing. After pressing at the line, there is no organic contact in madden down field between the WR and CB, (the only contact would be players running into each other) we don't see the CB reach out and grab the WRs jersey to re-route him or any hand fighting/arm bars down field. If there is a jump ball 90% of the time the WR and CB trigger the same animation. There should 100 animations just for those situations alone, (WR pushing the DB in the back before elevating comes to mind, Golden Tate anyone?). FIFA, standing tackle system and minor collision system could be excellent ground work to re-create these type of standing contact interactions that aren't tackles. Ball Physics/Ball in the Air: 1) Madden must adopt ball physics next year. I Don't think they need FIFA's system but they must have one of their own. I wouldn't even be opposed to a possible Power meter on throws. Adding a new element to the passing game. other than hold for bullet and tap for lob. That system is outdated and needs to be re-imagined. Possibly replace "bullet" passes with "straight" passes and move that to the left joystick, where up or upward diagonals are lobs and middle direction are straight passes. The duration of the button hold could determine the velocity/accuracy. This would create more over/under throws all over the field. 2) FIFA Header system for pass catching: I don't know how much this system can directly correlate to Madden but it's proof that you can have a system where the ball is in the air and two opposing players are playing the ball in two totally different ways. Using different animations, while being in contact with each other. I've seen one guy going for a header while the other attempting to gain position for a bicycle kick. Madden can never be considered a true simulation game until WR and CB aren't mirror images of each other.

THIS THIS THIS! I've talked with my friends about how it would be so much better to add a power meter for throwing.

[thaking252]

Quote: Originally Posted by SB2G

THIS THIS THIS! I've talked with my friends about how it would be so much better to add a power meter for throwing.

My opinion is that I don't think that a throwing meter would work for the simple fact that football is a game of inches and it would take to long to get a pass off, so by the time your throw meter loads up you'd either get sacked or your intended receiver would no longer be open. They could add extra things t make the kicking game more interesting, like adding a snap meter and pulling the triggers to align your kick, sort of like shooting free throws in NBA 2k for the dreamcast

[dghustla]

Quote: Originally Posted by thaking252

My opinion is that I don't think that a throwing meter would work for the simple fact that football is a game of inches and it would take to long to get a pass off, so by the time your throw meter loads up you'd either get sacked or your intended receiver would no longer be open. They could add extra things t make the kicking game more interesting, like adding a snap meter and pulling the triggers to align your kick, sort of like shooting free throws in NBA 2k for the dreamcast

The FIFA shot meter powers up in a matter of seconds. I don't see why this would be any different. The meter doesn't change the animations, it's could be built in to the current release. As you noted football is a game of inches. Football is also a game of timing. Currently there are just too many passes that are on target. There needs to be another X factor. Personally I would prefer that X factor to be user controlled. A good QB sees a guy WHEN he is open and gets him the ball. A great QB anticipates when his WR will be open and gets him the ball.

When I power kick a chip shot and miss or don't use enough power on a long shot in FIFA. It reminds me of the flaws in my game that need to be worked on. I don't see why Madden can't be the same way. QB miss open targets all of the time. I don't see how Madden can recreate this element in it's current system without making it purely random.

[thaking252]

Quote: Originally Posted by dghustla

The FIFA shot meter powers up in a matter of seconds. I don't see why this would be any different. The meter doesn't change the animations, it's could be built in to the current release. As you noted football is a game of inches. Football is also a game of timing. Currently there are just too many passes that are on target. There needs to be another X factor. Personally I would prefer that X factor to be user controlled. A good QB sees a guy WHEN he is open and gets him the ball. A great QB anticipates when his WR will be open and gets him the ball. When I power kick a chip shot and miss or don't use enough power on a long shot in FIFA. It reminds me of the flaws in my game that need to be worked on. I don't see why Madden can't be the same way. QB miss open targets all of the time. I don't see how Madden can recreate this element in it's current system without making it purely random.

I agree, another element needs to be implemented in the passing game, I've never played Fifa so im not familiar with the meter in that particular game, but as I think about it a throw meter could work and be amazing if they could base the meter off of the actual QB release times