Using Sliders does skill level matter?

[Fr8Train]

My understanding is that All Pro, is simply a slider setting of 50. All Madden is a slider setting of 25. Once you start changing the sliders, you effectively create a custom level.

Is there a difference between an All Pro League with Sliders all at 10
And a All Madden League with Sliders all set at 10?

I've had one gamechanger (Shopmaster) tell me that was the case, and then another (MadScientist) say he wasn't sure.

So I'm looking for your feedback for an ongoing discussion I'm having.

Another example, start a league on All Madden, but change all of the sliders to 50...you should no be playing an All Pro league...right?

[Carlboy82]

Your looking for definitive answers, and i dont blame you. But the problem with getting an answer is, you will receive different opinions. This is the case with every facet of this game. You will get different opinions on QB Acc settings, Pass coverage settings, penalty settings, etc etc... Its amazing how all these slider gurus play the same game but see it differently. Is it that the slider gurus are messed up? No, not at all. They are giving it their absolute best effort to fix this abomination of a game. This is the entire fault of EA Sports. Even they have no answers on how to make this game play as it should. If they did know, then year after year, slider gurus wouldnt be still tweaking this game 11 months after it comes out. So good luck to you in getting your answer.

[Sturzinator]

My contribution to the confusion is this:

The CPU plays a better, more realistic and challenging game when set to all pro than when set to all Madden, regardless of independent slider settings. I have tried both while keeping the sliders the same and this is my perception. I actually lost more games on all pro than I did on all Madden.

I think all Madden is inexplicably nerfed in some fashion. Game play is inconsistent at best.

Just one example is interceptions. I could not stop the CPU from chucking loads of ints every game on all madden, no matter what I tried (I only user a d lineman with no switch). I changed to all pro and the problem was solved. Interceptions were in line with NFL averages with flip of a switch, in fact, I started to worry that I was getting too few for a while! User sacks were also curtailed. My last 4 games on all pro I had 2,2,2, and 3 sacks with the Vikings (statistically accurate). If I go to all Madden, that number easily doubles. Additionally, I felt as though the star players had more impact on all pro. All Madden seems to homogenize all players across the board (Brady plays the same as Ponder).

The only thing missing is the fast kick meter, but kicking FGs is so ridiculously easy who will miss it?

A custom penalty slider set is a must to tie it all together and bring out the best features.

It gets easier to swallow if you consider how wildly different a play now game is from a CFM game. It is not inconceivable that the butchers at EA somehow jacked up the game play between the two settings when inside of CFM as well.

Believe it, or not.

Yes, there are lots of variables to consider in this picture. Your mileage may vary, etc.

I encourage everyone to drop the all Madden ego trip, try it and see what you think.

[RG3MVP]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sturzinator

My contribution to the confusion is this: The CPU plays a better, more realistic and challenging game when set to all pro than when set to all Madden, regardless of independent slider settings. I have tried both while keeping the sliders the same and this is my perception. I actually lost more games on all pro than I did on all Madden. I think all Madden is inexplicably nerfed in some fashion. Game play is inconsistent at best. Just one example is interceptions. I could not stop the CPU from chucking loads of ints every game on all madden, no matter what I tried (I only user a d lineman with no switch). I changed to all pro and the problem was solved. Interceptions were in line with NFL averages with flip of a switch, in fact, I started to worry that I was getting too few for a while! User sacks were also curtailed. My last 4 games on all pro I had 2,2,2, and 3 sacks with the Vikings (statistically accurate). If I go to all Madden, that number easily doubles. Additionally, I felt as though the star players had more impact on all pro. All Madden seems to homogenize all players across the board (Brady plays the same as Ponder). The only thing missing is the fast kick meter, but kicking FGs is so ridiculously easy who will miss it? A custom penalty slider set is a must to tie it all together and bring out the best features. It gets easier to swallow if you consider how wildly different a play now game is from a CFM game. It is not inconceivable that the butchers at EA somehow jacked up the game play between the two settings when inside of CFM as well. Believe it, or not. Yes, there are lots of variables to consider in this picture. Your mileage may vary, etc. I encourage everyone to drop the all Madden ego trip, try it and see what you think.

I am with you Sturz, I've customized mine from AP difficulty, and the CPU qb play, to the O- Line interactions, seem to be more based off ratings, and not just raising the CPU players ability(ie. Backup qbs playing like Pro bowl qbs) for ddifficulty purposes.

I've thoroughly tested these from All-Pro.
I'm just putting a few more changes on mine here
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...n-custom.html?

So to answer your question, yes it does change things very much so imo

[RG3MVP]

Quote: Originally Posted by Carlboy82

Your looking for definitive answers, and i dont blame you. But the problem with getting an answer is, you will receive different opinions. This is the case with every facet of this game. You will get different opinions on QB Acc settings, Pass coverage settings, penalty settings, etc etc... Its amazing how all these slider gurus play the same game but see it differently. Is it that the slider gurus are messed up? No, not at all. They are giving it their absolute best effort to fix this abomination of a game. This is the entire fault of EA Sports. Even they have no answers on how to make this game play as it should. If they did know, then year after year, slider gurus wouldnt be still tweaking this game 11 months after it comes out. So good luck to you in getting your answer.

I disagree, most if the slider "gurus" I've followed all had similar slider ranges. The problem I've found is they are All-Madden, and they all have the same issues b/c of this.

I've gone to a All-Pro setup with similar slider ranges(based off the "gurus") and its a pleasant surprise.
The problem is some guys ego says, All-Madden is the best CPU a.i., well IMO, its not necessarily the most accurate depiction of the players ratings.

Just b/c All-Madden is the hardest CPU a.i , doesn't mean its the best.

All-Pro seems to show off player ratings more accurately.
CPU is actually running the ball better, passing better, all within the players ratings.
I Dont see bad qbs look like A- Rodgers, T. Brady etc.
I see good HBs run for 100+ and lower rated HBs struggle more so.

I urge any of you that have given All-Madden all your time, to test it on AP.
Im 2-2 with my Custom/ AP setup.
Oh yeah!
My MLB London Fletcher is leading my team in tackles! As he should be!

So many ++ to AP, its been a pleasant surprise.
Many who have followed my thread, know I tested AP vs AM.

[ruttentud]

Well, in my experience, Madden '13 All-Madden had much better play-calling and decision making than All-Pro. So I've just stayed with All-Madden. I tried RG3VP's sliders and they were far too easy for me. But that's the key, they don't work for me, but they work great for him and other people.

Sliders shouldn't be tied to difficulty at all. Fail. Penalties shouldn't affect the actual game play, just the rate that they're called. Fail.

Edit: I realized I didn't even really answer the question fully. There's definitely a difference. What the difference actually is though and how greatly it affects the game, I don't know.

[RG3MVP]

After a month or more of tweaking mine from All-Pro, these are just as difficult as All Madden with lower scores and just a more realistic game all together.

You may have tested mine in the "alpha stages" but they have been improved upon since just a few days ago.

I just made some tweaks last night, and I disagree with the notion that CPU a.i makes better decisions on All-Madden.
I see the CPU sticking with the run now, I see backup qbs struggle.
This game is tuned differently than Madden 13 imo. So what worked in M13 may not work in M25.

Me and Sturz, along with a few others have lost just as many games on AP as All-Madden. But now I'm losing in a much more realistic fashion.

You should test the latest updates BC I've made small tweaks EVERYDAY for a month or longer lol

I'm just putting a few more changes on mine here
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...n-custom.html?

[Sturzinator]

I don't necessarily see better AI on all Madden. What I see is a score fest: the CPU will shred you (especially through the air, regardless of the QB and regardless of how good your secondary is) causing you to have to air it out in response. This typically causes the run game to be thrown to the curb out of necessity sooner than later. The result is lots of clock stoppages with the frequent passing, scoring drives that eat little time off the clock, unrealistic sack numbers, far too many interceptions (typically on both sides) causing short fields, and resultant final scores that frequently are in the 40s and even 50s per team.

I have played all madden using all of the most popular slider sets on these boards and to one degree or another, this is what you get on all Madden. I have further tweaked the pass game sliders on All Madden from their base sets with only marginally better results. I got tired of the "race to 50 points" scenarios, and particularly the CPU's propensity to throw int after int after int. I am sure it is appealing to some, as it IS a challenge to see if you can keep up the scoring pace without making mistakes, but it is far from how football is meant to be played. I am sure someone will itch to post their low scoring all Madden game -yes I know they can happen- but there are seemingly as many lower scoring games on all pro as there are higher scoring games on all Madden.

The CPU run game on all Madden is nerfed. Even if the CPU does run, they do it so predictably that it becomes easy to defend it with formation calls. The result is an anemic CPU ypc. I have had games where the CPU starts out running well, but the inability to mix up the play calling results in getting stuffed....and....back to shredding your secondary through the air with some guy who - by any measure -should be scrubbing the jocks in the locker room.

Regarding the passing in All Madden, I will offer this: I track lots of stats for every game I play in an effort to fine tune my slider set (yeah - really!) Yards per pass attempt is an important stat for the validity of your passing slider set. The NFL range here is typically between 6.0 and 8.7 yards per attempt. Yes, there are a few games where this will exceed this value, but very few. Now, consider the fact that over 95% of the games I played on All Madden the CPU QB exceeded these averages, typically throwing in the 9.5 to 10 plus range (bombs away score fest). Conversely, almost every game I have played on all pro has settled somewhere well within this range (realistic passing game).

All pro simply seems to allow for a more realistic game of football that is well balanced and more strategic for the sim gamer. More punts, field position matters more, and final scores in the 20s and 30s. Clay Mathews is to be feared, Ware will give you edge pressure, Suh will collapse your pocket. It's still a bit early, but I have yet to see 40 points from any team on 15 min quarters and the third string CPU QB will not come in and throw for 400 yards at 80% completion (as I saw - unbelievably - on all Madden). The run game from the CPU is better. McCoy just ran for 5.9 ypc against me. That NEVER happened on all Madden. A big reason for this CPU success is the fact that the CPU seems to call a better mix of plays on all pro which keeps you off balance and opens up some running lanes.

Now, all this being said, I will issue a disclaimer. EA has a way of jacking things up over time. I have seen it where you get things set up just right and are getting great game play, when suddenly everything goes wonky for seemingly no reason other than "this is an EA product". If that comes to pass, it may well be back to all Madden for me. You can't rule anything out when it comes to EA.

I hope it doesn't come to that.