Why AI is NOT attacking the basket too much, shoot too few from mid-range

[bbrump]

Quote: Originally Posted by illusiondrmr

CPU Attack in the Paint Relentlessly... Come on developers.. Same sh*t this year again

Quote: Originally Posted by demencia_total

I can confirm that with the Mid Range Shot slider on 99 for both gameplay and coach profile works like a charm... The first four shots they took were all from mid-range...

Quote: Originally Posted by tcnumba10

...perfect if somehow we got the CPU opponent to drive and pull up for a mid-range shot instead of forcing their way inside... I am experimenting on reducing Attack the Basket tendency...

Quote: Originally Posted by demencia_total

Houston decided to take 37 3pointers! They were launching them at will... until the broken plays are removed and the tendencies are adjusted we won't know what would be the perfect combination of Mid-Range vs Attack Basket sliders

I find it understandable that you guys are primed to think that the AI attacks the basket too much and shoots too few from mid range. But you're made to think in this way only because the 2K developers have set jumpshot success too high and and foul frequency too low.

Primarily attacking the basket and not settling for jumpshot is how basketball is played at the professional level. From one perspective, shots taken inside are the most efficient shots because of the much higher FG% there and because of the fouls that you can draw, which give you another efficient scoring which is shooting free throws. But in NBA2K, the foul frequency is too low and they punish contested shots/layups a little too much (which is understandable, if you read here), which caused people to resort to taking open long shots for better, more predictable success. Of course it didn't help that jumpshots in the game generally has a higher success rate than in real life.

From another perspective, attacking the basket is the catalyst in the fundamental team basketball basics "shoot, drive, pass (kick)". It always starts with driving inside to draw defenders and collapse a defense, then kicking out to teammates for open shot opportunities. Attacking the rim is not about attacking for the sake of attacking, but that it kicks start a flow of constant ball movement in the form of "shoot, drive, pass" that tears apart a defense network. But in NBA2K, the foul frequency is too low, and that in a video game sense it doesn't seem like a good idea to take contested layups in the lane over uncontested long shots, so the potency of drive isn't really there. Too bad also that the computer AI (at least as of '14) isn't really programmed to execute this kind of "shoot drive pass" as perfectly as the Spurs, or even average teams. Attacking the basket as mechanically and inflexibly as the AI somtimes does, coupled with low foul frequency, really frustrated some gamers regarding the prospect of inside shots, and caused many of them to settle for jumpshots instead. But if you guys counteract this situation by reducing default attack basket tendency, it could only make things worse, artificial. It's like straightening a twisted metal wire simply by pulling it by sheer force. Increasing foul tendency and reducing jumpshot success however mitigate the situation and makes it a lot closer to reality (in fact that's what I did in my post).

I also understand why a lot of people think the mid range tendency should be increased, because mid-range shot is the only potentially open outside shot that also has reasonable distance, as opposed to a 3PT shot. But the truth is the mid-range shot is the least efficient shot on the court, to the extent that, in a real NBA game, if you're making your opponents taking non-open/mildly contested mid-range shots all game long, you know you're doing it right. Regarding the Houston taking too many 3s comment above, the Houston Rockets (particularly them) actually basically do not take mid-range shots because of its low efficiency. The Rockets either take it to the rim and draw fouls, or shoot from 3 (don't mistake a 3 from a mid-range, because of the extra point). 37 maybe a high number but for the Rockets, it's not far-fetched (how else do you think they matched the record of most 3FG made in a game last season?).

I feel that some of the slider changes in some areas on these basketball forums is conceptually wrong. I do play 2K14 and I can't help but rely on myself and make my own custom sliders. I'm merely offering what I know about the game of basketball to make NBA2K as close to reality as possible.

[illusiondrmr]

Hey there bbrump,

Firstly, thanks for sharing your thoughts and sliders, its always nice to see people sharing their efforts. I will agree with you on the most part, but let me just clear out what i meant by the term "attacking in the paint relentlessly".

I just didnt see cpu in my games playing enough plays when attacking, ESPECIALLY when it comes out of a defensive rebound or a missed free throw attempt. So, in those particular cases it would be that 95% it would run down the floor like a crazy taliban suicider and in the most cases would take ridiculous shot attempts inside the paint.. The only thing i made in my sliders is to reduce the "attack the basket" slider to 25.

If you have pld nba2k12 as well, you would remember that this happened there as well and we had to tone down this slider to "1" and Coach profiles(Run Plays) to 0. (For some reason that worked vice versa). I think this is a Roster bug and has to do somthing with shooting tendencies or even Coach Profiles again. I did see some improvement tho gradually decreasing that slider to 25 and im currently waiting for someone to release Good Roster Update.

[topside]

The CPU most definitely attacks the basket too much. Are you playing the same game as me?

[jmarcguy]

Are you adjusting the global attack basket or the coach profile or both?

[sp8787]

yeah but bumping down ATB to 45/45 is more than enough as I experienced, and if you bump down OBD to 45/45 too the CPU will take more midrange shoots and not that many meaningless paint shots.

[bigdunks4eva]

Op what you're saying sounds very logical and thanks for sharing all of that. However when I see this all game every game:




I certainly beg to differ. I've yet to play a game were the cpu scores less than 75 points in the paint. Doesn't matter what team I have or who I'm playing against. Doesn't matter if I stop dribble penetration, there will be some unprobable interior pass that gets through, or a put back, or a loose ball that leads to a layup. Every team does the same thing. Now I like this game a lot in some aspects but come on, its a known legacy problem. I wanna thank anyone who spends time fiddling with sliders and sharing them because. You all make the game much less frustating

Sent from my LG-P769 using Tapatalk 2

[bigdunks4eva]

Double post.

[savantopus]

Interesting topic. Everyone's perspective of this topic of basketball physics seems to be different. I've been spending a good deal of my time observing real-life basketball and attempting to replicate my findings into 2K14 sliders to achieve the most realistic gameplay possible. This is one aspect of basketball that is difficult to replicate: the attack, collapse the defense, kick out, shoot or drive again. 2K has done an amazing job creating this game, but never in my 30 years of life have I seen a video game replicate perfectly this area of basketball. But here is my best attempt so far! Keep in mind that it does seem like the different difficulty levels give different hidden attack sliders? This needs to be tested. So far I have been playing on All Star because it is easiest to equalize the stats sliders between player and CPU so perhaps the exact slider numbers I will give here may not match if you are at a different difficulty level but the same general awareness of natural basketball physics still stands.

The numbers given are always in testing, but so far seem the best.

Lower On Ball Defense. Offensive players blow by defensive players constantly. This is what starts the offense if a set play is not orchestrated. Mine is currently set at 10 for CPU and 13 for User because in All Star difficulty the boost given to CPU for this rating is 3 points.

Raise Help Defense. This is where the defense collapses to protect the hoop. Coach slider and game slider between 65-80. 2K14 Help Defense is much better than 2K13. In 2K13 I had this slider set to 100 but so far 2K14 looks better.

Lower Shot Close Tendency. If this is set too high, your hard work of blowing by the defender will be wasted on a forced shot launched over the now collapsing defensive big-men. This will make your man kick it out for the open look. Mine currently at 0 and they still shoot too many close shots.

Raise Def Pressure on and off ball. 2K14 defense sags waaayy to much. Currently I have this coach slider at 100 for on ball and I'm still testing the off ball. The game feels and looks more realistic this way: the defense actually pressures the ball

Lower the Scoring sliders. Inside, Close, Mid, and 3P. Because of you creating the collapsing defense, you'll now get more open looks from distance making it easier to shoot. 3P% in NBA is 33-40%. Also, lowering the inside and close will help reduce the PIP (points in the paint). Teams average 36-47 in this area. Mine are currently Inside and Close 30, Mid 40, 3P 44. Oh ya what also affects this is the Jump Shot Defense Strength, I have lowered both of these to 40 because it seems that guarding your player made him miss too much and open shots went in too easy. If you watch real-life basketball instead of just the Sports-center Highlights you'll see that even NBA superstars miss open shots all the time. Average FG% 43-49.

Anyway, you see where I'm going with this. Questions? Comments?