Create a Player Manifesto/ Database/Conversation Hub

[tommycoa]

It's no secret that creating players/making rosters can be a real headache because there really isn't an exact science to go by. Everyone seems to have their own system. Modern players (from 1997 and up) are easier to find info on. The modern players have all kinds of goodies floating on the interwebs. For most players it's quite easy to find a plethora of information. Such as: Combine results, in depth scouting reports and statistics, video, and the aid of recent memory is always a plus.

Then there is the players from 1996 and back. These guys can be a real headache. Unearthing some of these players raw attributes (40 times, bench press, cone drills) is next to impossible to find. I have hoped and prayed that I could come across some kind of Holy Grail of knowledge and info that can guide me through the excruciating pain of hitting brick wall after brick wallof not finding that elusive 40 yard dash time of Brian Bosworth. And then there is always guys that were studs in college and flops in the pros. (Insert Ryan Leaf joke here) Or players like Tom Brady/Joe Montana/Priest Holmes who were decent in college but tore it up in the pros. Which way should we go?

It was very hard for me to rate Tom Brady on my 30 Year Set. I ended up taking the road most traveled and rated him a 95 for his college years at Michigan. And I ended up flipping a coin to decide the omission or addition of Priest Holmes to the same roster set. Sorry Priest, you lost the toss.
My hopes for this forum is to create an ongoing dialog with my fellow fans and aficionados that will hopefully make the process of rating these older guys a little bit easier.

Maybe someone has some old NFL Draft/Season Preview magazines that can aid classic roster makers in our search for this Holy Grail. Or maybe vintage video tapes that have yet to be posted on Youtube. God I hope so. A man can dream. Can't he?

I hope that my fellow roster makers/historians/super fans can unite and make this the mother load of Classic Roster Creation. None of these rating have to be set in stone but there needs to be evidence and collective agreement among the contributors of the message board to bump up or knock down a players ratings.

I would also like to add that this was not my idea. Playmakers mentioned it a few weeks ago. I hope he's not mad for me getting the ball rolling.

[tommycoa]

Please do not considers these opinions to be a knock on other peoples roster work. I want to start an open dialog so we can get these things as close to right as possible.

Joe Namath is a very intriguing player that I thought should be the first to be examined for this database. Why Joe Willie? Well, Bear Bryant was quoted, "Joe Namath is the greatest athlete I've ever coached." Now you go and look at his film with the Jets and you see a pure pocket passer with a gunslingers mentality. He possessed one of the quickest releases and strongest arms The Game has ever seen. True he had good feet and was quick in his drop backs but he hardly looked like the greatest athlete of all time. It's no secret that Namath had serious issues with his knees. His first knee injury happened during his Senior season at Alabama.

Here is a video of Namath at Alabama. There's not much footage here but notice his speed and athleticism around the :50 second mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7cgdDY0zho

It turns out that Namath ran a 4.7 40 before the knee injuries. Now the question is: Should he be rated different from a Madden Classic Roster file compared to a NCAA Football roster file?

For NCAA Game Files I suggest that Namath should be more of a scrambler.
Here are my suggested ratings:

Speed: 76
Agility: 85
Acceleration:80
Strength:60
Awareness:85
Stamina:80 (he did like to to stay out late, drink beer, drive fast cars, and most importantly chase girls)
Injury: 75
Break Tackle:70
Trucking: 50
Elusiveness:85
Ball Carrier Vision: 80
Stiff arm:50
Spin:80
Juke:75
Carry: 75
Throwing Power: 99
Accuracy: 80
Jump: 80

For the NFL I would knock his speed down to 60 as well as all of the other athletic attributes.

[BLA7E]

OK, found the Hub!!! I like it!

[schumj]

So how do you want to organize this? Loved the idea when playmakers mentioned it, but I think he is going to be plenty busy over the next 6 months with his improved alumni and 90's rosters. I won't be much help prior to 1990 but have quite the plethora of info on my favorite time period 1990-1997. I keep waiting to find that site with that info but the Internet was in its infancy still.

[tommycoa]

Quote: Originally Posted by schumj

So how do you want to organize this? Loved the idea when playmakers mentioned it, but I think he is going to be plenty busy over the next 6 months with his improved alumni and 90's rosters. I won't be much help prior to 1990 but have quite the plethora of info on my favorite time period 1990-1997. I keep waiting to find that site with that info but the Internet was in its infancy still.

My friend I think we are going to have to be that site.

My thinking is we have the hub where we collect the information, once we have enough information, we can organize it into a completely different thread. Unfortunately, a lot of the stuff on the older guys is going to have to be done by the eyeball test and we'll have to pool together and make a final decision. I really like Playmakers DNA Method but I'm not sure if you can really use it on Offensive Lineman. The O-lineman are the toughest titty to milk.

[tommycoa]

#20 Natrone Means
5-11 245
Overall Rating: 85
Tendency: Power
Nickname: Natrone Means Business.
College: North Carolina (90-92)
1992 All-ACC First Team

1990: 168 carries for 849 yards with 10 TD. 24 catches for 229 yards with 1 TD.
1991: 201 carries for 1,030 yards with 11 TD. 23 catches for 178 yards.
1992: 236 carries for 1,195 yards with 13 TD. 14 catches for 93 yards.


NFL
Drafted by San Diego 2nd round 41st pick
Career:
San Diego (93-95)
Jacksonville (96-97)
San Diego (98-99)
Carolina (2000)

Pro Bowl 1994

Big physical runner with great vision, quick feet, soft hands, a great burst, and a nose for the end zone. In his Pro Bowl season he rushed for 1350 yards on 343 carries and 12 TDs. Also caught 39 balls for 235 yards. He did cough up 4 fumbles. Finished an injury riddled career with 5,215 yards and 45 TDs. Longest run of 78 came in 1998 when he rejoined the Chargers.

Highlights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8RfdTJwS-g
Speed 4.64. Translates to a 79. Found the 40 on back of a trading card here:http://www.comc.com/Cards/Football/1...ans_UER/706211

Speed:79
Agility: 90
ACC: 90
Strength: 75
Awareness: 80
Stamina:85
Injury:75
Break Tackle:90
Trucking:90
Elusiveness:90
BCV:90
Stiff Arm:85
Spin Move:85
Juke Move:85
Carrying:70

Catching:70
Spec:50
CIT:50
RR:60
Rel:60
Jump:68

RB:55
PB:55
IB:55

[BLA7E]

Nice!!

Who would've thought (20+ years ago), that with all this technology present now...we would still be reduced to Trading cards for info for anything pre late- 90s!

You're right man, it's hard to find stuff on even semi-superstars in college. there just isn't much footage out there. It's kind of remarkable (not in a good way).

Also, I'm guessing you were just using Bosworth as an example, but I found his "combine" numbers (if the site is accurate) if you need.

*Note: Not sure if reliable, since I thought they did reps of 225, and not a max, but maybe it was different back then.

"Boz"
Year Drafted: 1987
College: Oklahoma
Overall Pick: Supplemental Draft (Seattle)
"Workout Warrior" Creds: 6-foot-3 & 240 pounds, 4.6 40-yd. dash, 450 lb. benchpress

Source: http://therealests.blogspot.com/2006...nfl-draft.html

Source #2: http://3rdand57.wordpress.com/2013/0...l-draft-fails/

[tommycoa]

Per request Iceman87GT
Quarterback
#14 Joe Hamilton
College: Georgia Tech (96-99)
NFL:Tampa Bay 2000-2001; Indianapolis 2004
7th Round 234th pick
5-10 192
Overall: 87
Tendency: Scrambler

Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6Uh8tfYecQ

Bio:
A poor man's Charlie Ward, Joe Hamilton was an undersized QB that just found ways to make plays and win games. Very accurate and a good decision maker. Was very good at extending plays with his feet. Great with the roll out pass.

College Stats:

————— PASSING ————— – RUSHING – – TOTAL OFF –
Year G-GS Cmp- Att Int Pct Yds PG TD Rtg Att Yds TD LP Yds PG TDR
1996 10-9 108- 188 13 .574 1342 134.2 7 115.9 95 248 3 54 1590 159.0 10
1997 11-11 173- 268 7 .646 2314 210.4 12 146.6 140 478 5 61 2792 253.8 17
1998 11-11 145- 259 8 .560 2166 196.9 17 141.7 112 298 4 48 2464 224.0 21
1999 11-11 203- 305 11 .666 3060 278.2 29 175.0 154 734 6 41 3794 344.9 35
Total 43-42 629- 1020 39 .617 8882 206.6 65 148.2 501 1758 18 61 10,640 247.4 83
Honors:
1996 - Four ACC Rookie of the Week Awards, Runner-up ACC Rookie of the Year
1997 - Two ACC Offensive Back of the Week Awards, Georgia Tech MVP for the Year, MVP of 1997 Carquest Bowl vs West Virginia
1998 - One ACC Offensive Back of the Week Award, 1st Team All-ACC Quarterback, Co-MVP of 1999 Gator Bowl against Notre Dame, led the team to ending 7 year losing streak to the Georgia
1999 - Davey O'Brien Award winner, Runner-up to the 1999 Heisman Trophy, 1st Team All-America Quarterback, 1st Team All-ACC Quarterback, Three ACC Offensive Back of the Week Awards, defeated University of Georgia 51-48 for second straight year in wild overtime victory
1999 Heisman Trophy Runner-up
2000 - Anthony J. McKelvin Award, ACC Male Athlete of the Year
2002 - ACC 50th Anniversary Football Team
2005 - ACC Football Legends - Inaugural Class
2007 - Received degree from Georgia Tech in History, Technology and Society

Ratings:
Speed: 72
Stength: 50
Agility: 97
Acc: 88
Awareness: 87
Break Tackle: 75
Trucking: 50
Elusiveness: 97
BCV: 90
STiff Arm: 40
Spin: 83
Juke:85
Carrying:85
Throw Power: 80
Throw Accuracy: 87