Pitches magically increasing/decreasing in speed due to location is unrealistic.

[cardinalbird5]

For example, your base fastball is 98. You throw high in the zone and it hits 100 and you throw low it hits 96.

This should be based on meter alone. This can be especially annoying online because it encourages users to throw nothing but high and inside pitches. A team like the Cardinals never really throw high fastballs (besides maybe Rosenthal and he still tries to keep the ball down). But I shouldn't have to rely on throwing it high just to add speed and feel like it is the only way I can get the ball past someone.

Also curveballs not being able to break high in the zone is unrealistic too. There are a lot of curveballs called high in the zone that have good break IRL, but this game treats them all as hanging curveballs that have no break to them.

Just a mini rant and I wish they'd change this. Anyone agree?

[kehlis]

I don't, its true in real life as well.

The real life Cardinal don't throw many high fastballs because they know that regardless of velocity, consistently throwing high fastballs will get you crushed.

The pitcher is elevated on the mound, the ball reaches its destination quicker the the higher the pitch.

[cardinalbird5]

I respect the argument, but I don't believe it. Even if that is true, it shouldn't be a +-3.5 variance. Also what about submariners and 3 quarter delivery guys??

Cards have plenty of guys who can throw heat btw....just ever since they've had Duncan as their pitching coach they've never utilized the high fastball out of the zone (not in the zone). If any team threw only high in the zone they'd get crushed, but on this game it is the go to pitch.

http://pitchingprofessor.com/article...pitch_low.html

"F THERE IS ANYTHING I AM certain about in pitching, it is that the farther up in the game you go, the more successful you can be by keeping your pitches low. There will be exceptions, of course. The classic example will be the power pitchers (like Nolan Ryan) who can retain their velocity and continue pitching upstairs as they age. Most pitchers will achieve greater success by keeping the ball in the lower part or even just out of the strike zone. Several of the reasons for this are:

Lower is faster. Most low fastballs are 1-2 mph faster than the pitcher's high fastball cousins. A radar gun will quickly prove this.
The hitter can see only the top half of the ball. On a high pitch, the batter will see the whole ball.
The low ball is more likely to be hit on the ground and less likely to be hit for distance.
The action on the ball (veer and sink) is heightened when the pitch is low.
Gravity adds to both the velocity and movement of the pitch.
Double plays (the essence of defensive efficiency) are the precious gifts of the low-ball pitcher."

[UK0wnag3]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't the term "effective velocity"?

Trevor Bauer talks about it a lot.

[kehlis]

You read what I wrote but didn't get my point.

I'm not arguing effectiveness, I pitched in college, I know why it behooves pitchers to keep it low in the zone.

And yes, this obviously doesn't apply to sidearm pitchers or submariners nor have I ever seen this reflected in the game for them.


My point was a simple matter of physics.

The ball for an overhand pitcher is released higher than the strike zone, therefore it is coming into the plate at a downward angle. Agree?

Because it is traveling at a downward angle, the higher the pitch, the sooner it arrived at the plate as it had less time to travel.

This is why you will continually see catchers call for a high fastball as a two strike strikeout pitch. It tends to change the eye level for the batter (because most pitchers tend to work down in the zone) and it tends to be the fastest fastball for any pitcher.


Just go back and watch the ninth inning of this game with that kid you guys put in. He trended around 95 but was pretty consistently faster up in the zone than when he pitched down.



NOW, if you want to argue that the variance is too much, you won't get an argument from me. I haven't studied the deviance in the game and really have no desire to.

[cardinalbird5]

I got your "point". I just don't agree with it. There is a difference.

Based on the physics..yeah that should be true. I don't know if it necessarily is until I see some proof. If you simply looked at pitch charts, pitchers would always be faster higher in the zone because pitchers look to throw them harder. That doesn't mean they get there faster with the same amount of effort.

As you posted that, Rosenthal just tied someone up with a 99 mph fastball down and in, lol.

Regardless....it just annoys me I can't blow a fastball by someone low and inside. I am not looking to start a physics argument. Play online and you'll see what I mean. Pitches low tend to crushed and high pitches get you outs, generally. I don't know so much about the CPU AI either, but it seemed like hardly got tied up with low heat as well.

Not a gamebreaker...but something that always annoyed me. That and the curves not breaking at all when throw high in the zone when in reality pitchers like Wayno, Zito, Carp, Lilly, etc. get a lot of high curveballs (that break the same) get called for strikes. I don't know about the physics on that one.

[kehlis]

Quote: Originally Posted by cardinalbird7

Based on the physics..yeah that should be true. I don't know if it necessarily is until I see some proof. If you simply looked at pitch charts, pitchers would always be faster higher in the zone because pitchers look to throw them harder. That doesn't mean they get there faster with the same amount of effort. As you posted that, Rosenthal just tied someone up with a 99 mph fastball down and in, lol. Regardless....it just annoys me I can't blow a fastball by someone low and inside. I am not looking to start a physics argument. Play online and you'll see what I mean. Pitches low tend to crushed and high pitches get you outs, generally. I don't know so much about the CPU AI either, but it seemed like hardly got tied up with low heat as well.

My intent wasn't to start an argument my friend.

Have a good evening, lets go Bucs!

[Bobhead]

Quote: Originally Posted by kehlis

I don't, its true in real life as well. The real life Cardinal don't throw many high fastballs because they know that regardless of velocity, consistently throwing high fastballs will get you crushed. The pitcher is elevated on the mound, the ball reaches its destination quicker the the higher the pitch.

Yes but that doesn't quite mean a difference in velocity.

Because of the elevation, the high pitch reaches its destination quicker because the distance is literally shorter.

Even if the pitch is traveling at exactly the same speed, there is a noticeable distance in the elapsed time of travel.

Think of the Pythagorean Theorem. The pitcher represents the point opposite the base. The catcher himself is the base of the triangle. (The base is perpendicular to the ground). A high pitch would be the shorter line, perpendicular to the base. A low pitch would be the diagonal, longer line, the hypotenuse... the one you use the formula for.