Chris Sale

[Cavicchi]

I looked at his pitches and like how in the world did they come up with them?!

Fastball at 97--Broo9ks Baseball has 93 (2012).

Slider at 96--Brooks Baseball has 79 (2012).

Changeup at 92--Brooks Baseball has 83 (2012).

Slurve at 84--Brooks Baseball has a 2-seam fastball (shown as sinker) at 90 (2012).

Four pitches and such a huge difference. A slider at 96!

[wudl83]

If you are talking about 2k13 (which I don't have, I am a pc user and can only answer it from the 2k12 perspective) I think it has something to do with how pitch ratings are calculated.

I think they tried to give Sale very strong ratings and strong pitches. To get a high rated pitch it isn't enough to give the pitch high control and movement, in many cases the pitch also needs to be fast to get a high rating.

E.g. to get a FB which is rated 90 it is not enough to give it a speed of 90 and control of 99 and movement of 99. This pitch won't be rated in the upper 90s because of how the pitch rating is calculated.

Other pitches like curves are highly dependent on movement, so often those pitches get too much movement compared to reality.

Next thing is that having a variety of pitches and especially not only one FB (but maybe even a 4 seamer, a 2 seamer and even a cutter besides 2 off speed pitches like a curve and a slider, too) makes the pitcher's rating higher.

And the higher the pitch rating the higher the pitcher's overall rating. So if 2k wants someone to have a high pitcher's overall rating they somehow got to trick. Because they tricked themselves with awkward rating calculation.

Know what I mean?

[Cavicchi]

Quote: Originally Posted by wudl83

If you are talking about 2k13 (which I don't have, I am a pc user and can only answer it from the 2k12 perspective) I think it has something to do with how pitch ratings are calculated. I think they tried to give Sale very strong ratings and strong pitches. To get a high rated pitch it isn't enough to give the pitch high control and movement, in many cases the pitch also needs to be fast to get a high rating. E.g. to get a FB which is rated 90 it is not enough to give it a speed of 90 and control of 99 and movement of 99. This pitch won't be rated in the upper 90s because of how the pitch rating is calculated. Other pitches like curves are highly dependent on movement, so often those pitches get too much movement compared to reality. Next thing is that having a variety of pitches and especially not only one FB (but maybe even a 4 seamer, a 2 seamer and even a cutter besides 2 off speed pitches like a curve and a slider, too) makes the pitcher's rating higher. And the higher the pitch rating the higher the pitcher's overall rating. So if 2k wants someone to have a high pitcher's overall rating they somehow got to trick. Because they tricked themselves with awkward rating calculation. Know what I mean?

So basically what you're saying is they make it up to reflect what they believe the rating should be. By the way, I was talking 2k12 for xbox.

[wudl83]

Yap that's what I was thinking. You will realize that a bunch of (especially relief) pitcher's even will get more pitches ingame than they actually throw in reality. Because more pitches means higher rating. So even when an elite pitcher like let's say Kimbrel only throws two pitches in reality (4 seamer and slider) I bet he got at least 3 pitches in the game. I noticed that numerous times. Some pitcher's throw way harder ingame than they do in reality, too. Like you noticed with Chris Sale. While others who are hard throwers in reality throw way too slow ingame compared to reality.
The thing is that not only the pitcher's have such strange ratings. It goes on with fielders/batters. Some elite batters which are bad fielders in reality often get way too high fielding ratings because the higher the fielding rating the higher the ingame OVR. And some guys have way too much power and AVG ingame for the same OVR reason.
Some guys always tend to argue against it and defend 2k. But IMO the ratings of 2k are crap and not based on real life performance but mainly on OVR. There are tons of players on 2k's roster which have way too low contact ratings compared to their real AVG they are hitting. And others get way too high contact rating because they are allstars...

[Cavicchi]

Quote: Originally Posted by wudl83

Yap that's what I was thinking. You will realize that a bunch of (especially relief) pitcher's even will get more pitches ingame than they actually throw in reality. Because more pitches means higher rating. So even when an elite pitcher like let's say Kimbrel only throws two pitches in reality (4 seamer and slider) I bet he got at least 3 pitches in the game. I noticed that numerous times. Some pitcher's throw way harder ingame than they do in reality, too. Like you noticed with Chris Sale. While others who are hard throwers in reality throw way too slow ingame compared to reality. The thing is that not only the pitcher's have such strange ratings. It goes on with fielders/batters. Some elite batters which are bad fielders in reality often get way too high fielding ratings because the higher the fielding rating the higher the ingame OVR. And some guys have way too much power and AVG ingame for the same OVR reason. Some guys always tend to argue against it and defend 2k. But IMO the ratings of 2k are crap and not based on real life performance but mainly on OVR. There are tons of players on 2k's roster which have way too low contact ratings compared to their real AVG they are hitting. And others get way too high contact rating because they are allstars...

KImbrel's example while good doesn't come close to what Kenley Jansen has: five pitches when in reality he throws two.

I don't know how one can defend the ratings in this game, I certainly couldn't.

[wudl83]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cavicchi

KImbrel's example while good doesn't come close to what Kenley Jansen has: five pitches when in reality he throws two. I don't know how one can defend the ratings in this game, I certainly couldn't.

Nice observation. That is a perfect example for what I was talking about.

For someone who wants to have as much realism as possible the 2k rating system is crap.

As I said hitting ratings are the same. Some guys mentioned that 2k would allegedly have a clear system where they weight different years different. E.g. 2011 is counted 3 times, 2010 2 times, 2009 1 time and then you sum it up and divide it by 6. Complete bogus argument. I tried to recalculate it and came up with a lot of different numbers...

Most player's ratings step out of line.

[Cavicchi]

If you want to take the time, you could correct (make more accurate) the pitchers in this game better than any other baseball game, because you can reduce pitch types to just 2. Now that won't make it play better than every other baseball game, just make pitchers throw what they really do, regarding pitch types and speed.

[wudl83]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cavicchi

If you want to take the time, you could correct (make more accurate) the pitchers in this game better than any other baseball game, because you can reduce pitch types to just 2. Now that won't make it play better than every other baseball game, just make pitchers throw what they really do, regarding pitch types and speed.

Do you mean me or are you speaking in general?