Can you throw curveballs for a strike, and what's your "out" pitch?

[ryan36]

Against the cpu, I find that if I want a strikeout...anything other than a 4sfb is ineffective?

This has been a complaint of mine (or gentle gripe) for years...I feel like ML pitchers can locate the breaking stuff better, and more hitters miss it than in this game.

I play OSFM, so that may be it, full disclosure.

This year, are you satisfied with the bats your missing with breaking/offspeed pitches?

[redsfan4life]

Quote: Originally Posted by ryan36

Against the cpu, I find that if I want a strikeout...anything other than a 4sfb is ineffective? This has been a complaint of mine (or gentle gripe) for years...I feel like ML pitchers can locate the breaking stuff better, and more hitters miss it than in this game. I play OSFM, so that may be it, full disclosure. This year, are you satisfied with the bats your missing with breaking/offspeed pitches?

What sliders?

[HozAndMoose]

Quote: Originally Posted by ryan36

Against the cpu, I find that if I want a strikeout...anything other than a 4sfb is ineffective? This has been a complaint of mine (or gentle gripe) for years...I feel like ML pitchers can locate the breaking stuff better, and more hitters miss it than in this game. I play OSFM, so that may be it, full disclosure. This year, are you satisfied with the bats your missing with breaking/offspeed pitches?

I think the CPU doesnt swing enough at pitches out of the zone. I can get 1 or two strikeouts with a change up. And usually its because they dont swing and it catches the bottom of the zone. A slider every know and then. But a curve is always hit or a ball. Fastball up and in is my strikeout pitch.

[fakingmysuicide]

I get k's all the time with breaking pitches. Second to ball physics, I believe this is the greatest improvement in gameplay in this years version.

You can almost always get away with a first pitch curveball right down the middle. Throw your breaking stuff for strikes, build up its confidence, then try to make them chase out of the zone. If you throw fastball down, fastball in, then curveball in the dirt, that will almost never work.

Throwing front door pitches is also very effective this year (a slider or curveball that starts in on righties and just creeps in the strike zone), buckles those knees

Hope this helps.

[ML]

Nooooo my laptop died and every single thing I said was lost (unclutch battery life I was a few sentences from post). It was an extremely long post and you probably wouldn't have even read most of it so you were spared . I'm gonna sit down and try and write it all again though, so you have been warned!

EDIT: Just posted this after like an hour of retyping and half effort editing, and this thing is really freakin long, like novel on a thread worth long (like I probably should have just blogged this long). I basically just typed out a friggen pitching clinic! Luckily for yall (and myself because I spent a real long time on this post for no apparent reason) what is typed below is a giant wall of what I think is extremely good information and some opinions that I hope I supported well. Figured I'd put this in here since this is like the 8th edit: Thanks Ryan for posting something that I am so interested in and can relate to so much opinion wise that I could write all of this Also if you were only looking for 2 sentence responses I'll be pissed!


Contents: (it's that darn long, I really hope I am not taking away from your thread!)
Background info: I use Classic pitching after using Analog pitching last year.

1. A lot of detailed ranting and rambling, if you are an impatient reader skip this!
2. Overview of the long rant / rambling
3. Tips / Tricks I personally have success with

Ok, where was I?...

1.When you watch games TV, it is pretty apparent that 95% of pitchers can "paint the black" (its so much easier to actually notice this while they break it down with the batters box image). Some do it extremely well, are extremely effective and can do it with any pitch they throw, which makes them an Ace or just in general a dominant pitcher. You may not have noticed, but a lot of a pitcher's offspeed pitches for strikeouts aren't even in the zone at all, they are either on the "black" or out of the zone.

Quick fun fact: Easily one of the best pitchers ever, the all-time leader in career strikeouts,the same man who threw a ridiculous amount of no-hitters, is the same man who is also the all-time leader in career walks! Nolan Ryan literally threw nothing over the middle. Everything was on the paint and on the corners. Sometimes he got the call, sometimes he didn't. Most of the time, the batter had no choice but to swing because the ball was so close to the zone, either just missing or just hitting a piece of it. Did he throw hard with a huge power curve? Yes. Did that help a lot? Yes. What helped contribute? Not throwing the ball right down the pipe, and not throwing a bunch of balls a foot off the plate. There should be more of this going on in the game! Less blatant strikes, less blatant balls!

I agree with you and think that you are basically saying the problem with The Show compared to the ML pitchers is that not a lot of pitchers in the video game can do this. I know personally, especially in my Royals franchise, where trust me every single game is an adventure when it comes to pitching, it is almost impossible for a pitcher to be extremely dominant, painting the black and hitting the corners with their offspeed, let alone their fastballs. Generally, even with the sliders being constantly adjusted, I find that there are WAY TOO MANY pitches that are thrown right over the plate.

That being said, it's rather hard for a "perfect" fix for this. Basically what I mean is, if a pitch is in zone for too long, it is most likely going to get hit, and will definitely be swung at. Why do you think less than 2 strikes a batter will take something that is a close call, or a pitch that is in the zone where they aren't killing the ball? (Interestingly enough and pretty relevant, I was watching film with my hitting instructor of me in a few games, and being ahead in the count and trying to be an aggressive hitter, I would tend to swing at pitches that weren't in my "sweet spot", which would jam me up and on 2-0 I would hit a weak groundball somewhere, a lazy popup, basically a wasted AB. My instructor made it very simple; less than 2 strikes, if you can't hit the ball in that part of the zone consistently hard, don't swing!) /endrant sorry for going offtopic with my own problems

Anyway, where was I...

If a ball is in an unhittable area for the batter such as offspeed that hits the corners, and he can take it for less than strike 3, is it smart for him to do so. This is seen more on TV than in the game, A LOT more. This isn't even because the AI is "smarter" than the dude at the plate who can rip a 95 mph like it's hit job (literally). It is due to the fact that in the game, the amount of pitchers that can consistently hit the corners with ease is significantly lower than the amount of pitchers who can do it in real life.

Although I have talked a lot about placement, there is another thing; good pitchers have the ability to not only put the ball in certain places. They have the ability to put the right balls in the places that MAKES THE HITTER MISS.

How does this relate to the thread and OP? In many ways:

--There is a ton of hit and miss in this game, and not by the hitter. I find with no matter what sliders I use, take a 2nd man in the rotation guy, he will throw what is either a blatant strike in the zone or a blatant ball out of the zone an extreme majority of the time. There aren't enough pitches (especially offspeed) that FINISH just hitting the corners!

-- Especially this year's game, maybe I am just unlucky, but I have noticed a lot of umpires squeeze the zone when I am playing, even with human error on. This not only screws me for when I walk a ton of batters a game (lol) but I mentally go at it thinking ok if he doesn't give me that call now I definitely need to put something that's directly in the zone for a chance of it being called a strike. Previously stated, a ball that is in the strike zone for too long will get hit more times than not. You can't really muscle pitches by batters every single AB and be successful in this game, as well as at any level of baseball once you aren't the biggest kid on the field past the age of 12.

--- Besides obtaining and upholding their mechanics, a pitcher has to go into the game with the ability to do two things in order to be successful: Strategize and Execute. When I pitch, in the beginning of the game I like to start with a fastball to get ahead in the count and set the tone for the AB. When I get to the heavy hitters in the order, I begin to mix it up, and maybe I'll start with a curveball that drops into the zone. So answer to the title: YES I can throw a curveball for a strike That being said, and as I have previously rambled on about before, a curveball in the zone too long is not a good thing. I also said before that a good pitcher has the ability to make a hitter miss. This works itself pretty obviously into the execution part of pitching. Some pitches in certain places require extremely talented hitters in order for the ball to be hit hard, and in some cases hit really far as well. It's proven that hitting a 90 mph fastball is one of the hardest things to do in sports. Pitchers now throw mid 90s and some hit triple digits on the regular. There should be a lot more swinging and missing at pitches, than there really is. Seen in The Road to the Show part of the game, a batter doesn't need to reach base to have what is considered a "good at-bat". If he fouls off 3-4 pitches than hits a hard groundball somewhere, that can be considered a good at-bat. Especially in a hitters mind, if he hits a ball 395 feet just foul, then strikes out 4 pitches later, he will still think that he took a good approach at the plate. A 395 foot foul ball is just a long strike, but the dude still hit it 395 feet! How many times do you see on TV a guy completely swing through a pitch, or have his bat in the zone and just miss a pitch? Earlier I stated that you can't muscle pitches past hitters and expect good results every single time. This is true. But how many times have you smiled once your closer blew a 95 mph fastball past the last batter to save a key game? Or that time where your teams pitching came up huge with a big curveball, 2 outs bases loaded, where the batter guessed wrong and swung through it? I don't know if its my sliders (more on that below) or what, maybe the bigger timing window or something, but there should be a lot more swinging and missing in this game as well. The other thing if I had to pick would be more chasing of pitches / getting fooled, but I'm pretty sure those can both be adjusted with the same slider. Could be wrong though.

--Most strikeouts I obtain come from waste pitches or just things out of the zone. A curveball that drops way out of the zone, a slider low and away, a changeup in the dirt, up and in fastballs, can all get the job done effectively in this game, which is something I DO infact really enjoy. Hitters aren't robots. They will chase a pitch starts in the zone and falls out of it, or will take a pitch that starts out of the zone but at the very last second falls into the zone for strike 3. These pitches when executed properly do a lot more damage than say a fastball down the pipe, a slider that stays up, a changeup over the meat of the plate, etc.

Another thing I enjoy is the AI's ability to adjust to how you are playing. Example: If you throw a first pitch fastball, an offspeed pitch out of the zone, then another fastball for a strike, if the fastball isn't ripped the 2nd AB, it'd be a good idea to mix it up and not do the same old routine for the 3rd AB.


Too Long Didn't Read??? That makes me sad Luckily it is 5:30 AM and I am playing the Twins so I'm so bored that I will sum up my whole rant below:

2. ----Yes, I see where you are coming from. I think that (and maybe you mean this maybe you don't) more pitchers should be able to hit the corners of the plate and paint the black,especially with their best commanding / most confident pitch, for a lot more pitchers in the MLB have this ability than the amount of pitchers that can do it day in and day out in The Show. I can really only DOMINATE with very few Aces, and it has to be a day where they are just on. I know you are thinking to yourself; "well not many pitchers can go out there and just dominate every single start and hit every single pitch where its supposed to be" and you are correct, but MOST pitchers have the ability to not throw a curveball way outside 3 times, way inside 3 times, hit the black once, then leave it right down the middle for it to be crushed. Pitches should not miss a spot so badly as often! I also think that there should definitely be more swinging and missing, even earlier in the counts. A lot of times a batter is up there free swinging on hitters counts, even 1-1, and a ball will get blown by him, or he will think fastball and doesn't adjust for the curve causing him to be out in front or to swing right through it. I personally even think that there should be more swinging and missing for strike 3. An outs an out, but I'd rather see just a swing and a miss to end the inning than the little dribblers in front of the plate or the comebackers at the pitcher which he then converts into outs for 4 innings straight!


----Also, I think confidence should play a bigger role in this game. High confidence should mean that if the pitcher throws this pitch, he knows he can put it where he wants to be and he can make hitters miss with it. This should also prove successful. The only time I see confidence really play a part is when it will be high, a batter will get a 2 out cheap hit. The confidence on said pitch is lowered. The next inning the first batter first pitch rips the pitch for a base hit. Throw the same pitch 3 more times that inning, none resulting in an out but a few balls where the umpire squeezes him. Confidence alters. Flood gates then begin to open. Again, I understand that pitchers can miss their spots, but with a ball that has been lights out in 3 innings to suddenly miss their spots by HUGE distances more than once in an AB just to get crushed? That is truely disheartening

----Maybe it is just my sliders. I understand sliders adjust the game, and they are there to be tinkered with. If the game was 100% perfect then there wouldn't really be a need for sliders than emulated things such as sim stats, would there? I play around with sliders a lot, and I will still have a lot of pitches that are properly timed, whether it be analog or classic pitching, that are either thrown a foot and a half away from where I aimed it, or thrown right down the middle of the plate that gets crushed. Like I previously stated, if I aim a 4-seam fastball on the bottom right corner of the plate, I shouldn't have to pray it gets remotely close to there! Sometimes it's a foot and a half outside, sometimes it's high and in the middle of the plate, sometimes its right down the pipe, and mostly all of the time it's ripped or taken for an easy ball
Also a side note: Thank you all of the testers and posters who put their sliders up here. I have gone through all of them (well like 99% of them, not to brag but I am 10x better than my roomate so we are always playing around with the sliders for a median) and I really do appreciate all you guys do. This isn't to bash any of you saying your sliders are ineffective, don't work, etc. The whole sliders ordeal is kind of uncharted territory besides knowing what each slider does, and how adjusting each one effects your game play, I don't really know much about them. (it can't be THAT simple, can it?!).To further explain because I'm aware that I am coming off rather unclear here, and so I don't see any posts saying derp move the contact slider to the right and then you will make more contact, what I mean is this: I will go through a slider set, play 15-20 games with them to gather some kind of sample size. I will then look at the games as a whole. If I hit 65 longballs in 20 games and I'm a team with little to no power I know something has to be changed. The problem I personally run into with sliders is also similar to what this whole freakin' thread is based on. I like how many hits I give up to the CPU as long as they are errors such as I threw a bad pitch in a bad spot. That is ok with me. What I don't like is when I have 2 outs and I will throw a pitch with my ace say low and inside and it will be high and away for an obvious ball 4. Then the next batter will get to 2 strikes, foul off like 4-5 pitches, all while taking 3 extremely close pitches for balls, then just ripping a pitch into the gap to open up the game! Players have good ABs and yes that is baseball I get that, but in my opinion it happens way too often, maybe twice a game? To like the 8 hitter? At the same time, that isn't really often enough where I feel the need to change a slider because everything else is going great.


ALMOST TO THE END!!!

3.----Tips & Tricks for you fellow Aspiring Aces---
Although I may come off as a user who is just absolutely terrible on the mound (I'm pretty hard on myself) I have pitched 2 no-hitters last year in a play 162 chise and won the World Series, and I've brought a no-hitter into the 8th and a Perfecto into the 9th. (Damn you Rays bunting for base hits!! Being no-hit couldn't hurt after just one more time!!) Most certainly not bragging and although I may not have a 100% success rate, I do have somewhat of a clue what I'm talking about when it comes to pitching. Also my brother pitches for the University of Tampa and my best friend pitches for Maryland so there's that

Here are just a few things I keep in mind while pitching in The Show that I've picked up over the years:

In the video game just like in the MLB, batters are always making minor adjustments throughout the game in order to be successful. Maybe not physically, but if you think a hitter will go up to the plate with the same mindset and take the same approach every single AB, you my friend are more off the deep end than I am, and I'm not exactly in shallow waters!

Remember, the 2 key things to pitching besides mechanics is to demonstrate strategy and execution!
--A good idea that I do is to use your fastball on weaker hitters going through the first time of the order for a solid strike one. This will set the tone of the AB and get you ahead in the count nice and early. As the more powerful hitters come up, it might be a better idea to start them with a decent amount of tough to hit offspeed (Don't let ANYTHING hang if you can help it! A curveball up in the zone with little movement will have a batters eyes light up as if it was Christmas morning! ) and only try to sneak a fastball IN THE zone if you absolutely need a strike. Remember: If worse comes to worse, one base on a walk is a lot better than four bases on a ball crushed over the fence.

--Next time through the order, try and remember who did what, what worked and what didnt, and try to mix it up a bit (this means changing speeds as well as pitch order / placement) i.e. David Wright's first AB we threw him a first pitch fastball for a strike. He chased a slider out of the zone, then just got under another fastball which caused him to fly out to deep right. The next AB Wright ripped a first pitch fastball for a single. It's late in the ballgame now and the Mets are down a run, getting more aggressive at the plate. Next AB, it would be wise to not throw that same first pitch fastball! Consider starting him off with some hard to hit junk. Remember that he (and some previous batters) chased a slider low and away! Use this to your advantage! I know the whole saying if it ain't broke don't fix it, but eventually the hitters will fix what they are doing wrong, and if you become way too predictable they will jump all over you.

--Don't be afraid to throw balls out of the zone, use your waste pitches! You must be a HOFer if you can throw 3 pitches for 3 strikes in the zone and strike batters out consistently. 0-2 count? Give 'em something in the dirt! The AI is NOT a perfect robot! They WILL chase pitches! I get a lot of my strikeouts not by blowing fastballs by batters, but by getting them to swing at stuff that falls out of the zone! Some effective pitches I've found that CREATE SWINGS AND MISSES AS WELL AS FREEZING UP HITTERS: front door and back door sliders , change-ups in the dirt or low and away, fastballs low and in / high and in (both are hard to turn on will usually end in a whiff or a broken bat), mixing up pitches that look the same but move different i.e. a 2SFB and a RFB where one moves toward the batter and the other moves away, and who could forget that big hook of a curveball?! Nastiest pitch in the game when at the very last second it completely drops out of the zone.

--- If you're looking for what pitchers to use, there's literally too many combinations to name, but I always end up with a certain type so they have come to grow on me. For starters: I tend to go after pitchers that can consistently throw strikes and at the same time usually don't put up a lot of big strikeout numbers. They don't have overpowering stuff such as a 98 MPH Fastball, but they can throw all of their pitches well and can get a lot of poorly hit stuff like popups, lazy flyballs, and weak grounders. They usually come with a low 90s high 80s fastball, a real impressive, reliable changeup, and a decent slider / curve. (Perfect example, Dan Milone. No idea how I first ran into him but he's awesome.) This sentence will probably make me a huge hypocrite to everything I posted but I would honestly rather have a consistent pitcher who can throw strikes and keep a game close with his pitch count low for a long time than a dude who throws heat, strikes out 10, throws a ton of pitches then completely runs out of gas and gets pulled way after its too late, or the guy that gives me a heart attack everytime a fly ball is hit (I'm looking at you Phil Hughes!) . As for Relievers and Closers, again, just need dudes who don't give up the long ball and can really buckle down. Extremely important that you can trust them to the point where you don't feel the need to keep your starter in any longer than you should because your bullpen can't get the job done. I personally prefer guys who can throw either a real good slider or a real good sinker. Those pitches come in handy when you need a double play ball. (See: Huston Street)

--Be mentally strong! Every at bat in a game alters the momentum / outcome of the game in one way or another! Even though it's easy to get frustrated, don't! There is 162 games in the season, you have to be focused up and realize that each game is a new day! Don't get caught up on past mistakes, instead look at them and say hmm I could have done this and this better and should avoid throwing this pitch there on this count. Trust me, stay calm and pitch on!

Finally done. I hope you guys take the time to read this it rather took me forever (had to retype it twice... convinced my laptop hates me!) and hopefully my advice works out for all of you. Which I should probably take some of my own advice since I just gave up 4 runs in the top 2nd to the Twins

P.S. In no way did I mean to take away from the OP's thread in anyway (I do hope I gave a good enough response, this took me quite a while!) Yes I know that I wrote A LOT.

Baseball is just such a romantic game, how could you not fall in love with it?!

[Bobhead]

I think I'm pretty satisfied with my ability to locate breaking balls (granted I use Analog, and I'm pretty satisfied with my ability to locate anything).

But I agree CPU doesn't chase breaking balls nearly enough in this game. I've gotten quite a few called strikeouts with them, but it's a little too rare that I get a chase on one in the dirt or significantly out of the zone, with default sliders.

[sherrane]

Quote: Originally Posted by HozAndMoose

I think the CPU doesnt swing enough at pitches out of the zone. I can get 1 or two strikeouts with a change up. And usually its because they dont swing and it catches the bottom of the zone. A slider every know and then. But a curve is always hit or a ball. Fastball up and in is my strikeout pitch.

While I agree the CPU isn't as aggressive as I think real major leaguers are, you can get them to swing at breaking pitches out of the zone if you are ahead in the count. My RTTS pitcher has a 4-seam, 2-seam, Splitter, Slider, and Circle Change and I record strikeouts (swinging and looking) on all 5 pitches. If the batter is down 0-2 or 1-2, you can get a swinging K if you start the pitch in the zone and have it break out of the zone and you can get them to take strike three if you start the pitch out of the zone and have it break into the zone.

[TonyMoraco]

You can get the CPU to swing and miss at almost any pitch you want...but you need to show first that you can throw it for strikes, and second you have to "lure" them to swing on pitches out of the zone...