I think EA should scratch the ratings system.

[juggalotusx]

Here me out, I have thought about this for a while and have come to the conclusion that until the ratings are scratched and sliders are taken out of the game there will be no personality for the players themselves or for the team. I think with being able to have sliders making them work how you want ruins the game play cause most of the time you just set them to make it harder for yourself cause the game is to easy. I think the difficulty should be taken out also so that then the teams with a different rating scheme like letters and not so many variables would play correct.
For instance if you change tackle to 10 you could have patrick willis and 3 others missing the tackle on a player that has poor agility and trucking, not likely to happen but you can make it happen. Jump up the tackle to 50 and they will tackle half the time still kind of unrealistic if you ask me because it should depend on play rec,tackle and pursuit right but it doesn't its all a guessing game for EA. To me the more options you have with attributes the more likely it is to get messed up and confuse the computer. Now I know some people will say I need the sliders for better gameplay and its to easy otherwise but I think if it was removed with a new rating system it would work the way teams play on sunday or hope anyway. You know what teams are hard to beat and what teams just plain are bad in the nfl so why cant EA make it this way. IDK maybe Im way off on this one but I think ea needs to simplify things when it comes to basics.

[roadman]

Lot's of topics over the years on ratings and a lot of debates on how to do them better.

If the scrap the current ratings, would that negate DPP?

If it does negate DPP, I don't see them changing the current rating system, although, I wish they would.

[ajb3313]

I think, like I feel about a lot of things in-game, that it should just be something you toggle on/off.

Realistically, players have to have ratings. The discussion is really whether or not we should be able to see them. Both have advantages and disadvantages. So, in my mind, the simplest way of doing it is setting up a system where you can show or hide them.

The biggest problem I have with showing ratings is that you know how good a player is without ever having to use them. If you want, you can go to your roster right after the draft and know precisely how good all of your rookies will be. They don't even have to play a snap. So you have the benefit of being able to cut the players that you can blatantly tell won't be good instead of using the roster spot to get a feel for them and make a decision later.

I think that if you select to have them off, you should then have access to things like bench press, 40-yard dash, high jump, or whatever that will help guide you a little bit. If ratings were totally blind, you wouldn't know basic things like if a guy is fast or strong. You need to know that much. But speed and strength don't necessarily translate to success, so that's where all the other ratings figure in. If they're hidden, you know that a receiver has blazing speed but you have to use him in the game to realize that, yeah, he's fast, but he can't catch a damn thing or run any semblance of a route.

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by ajb3313

I think, like I feel about a lot of things in-game, that it should just be something you toggle on/off. Realistically, players have to have ratings. The discussion is really whether or not we should be able to see them. Both have advantages and disadvantages. So, in my mind, the simplest way of doing it is setting up a system where you can show or hide them. The biggest problem I have with showing ratings is that you know how good a player is without ever having to use them. If you want, you can go to your roster right after the draft and know precisely how good all of your rookies will be. They don't even have to play a snap. So you have the benefit of being able to cut the players that you can blatantly tell won't be good instead of using the roster spot to get a feel for them and make a decision later. I think that if you select to have them off, you should then have access to things like bench press, 40-yard dash, high jump, or whatever that will help guide you a little bit. If ratings were totally blind, you wouldn't know basic things like if a guy is fast or strong. You need to know that much. But speed and strength don't necessarily translate to success, so that's where all the other ratings figure in. If they're hidden, you know that a receiver has blazing speed but you have to use him in the game to realize that, yeah, he's fast, but he can't catch a damn thing or run any semblance of a route.

Players do indeed need to have ratings. NFL scouts rate players based on their skills and even QUNTIFY them (you know this if you follow FBG Ratings) for use by the team. The measurables are very important as well, as they give a glimpse at the raw physical ability of a player compared to other players. You know that a player with great raw strength has the POTENTIAL to out-muscle the guy opposite of him. If a player accelerates well, you know that he has the POTENTIAL to hit a hole that is closing or get to a runner before he hits the sideline. All of these can and are measured in near-equal settings (combine/BLESCO/pro days). However, what you need scout info on is how the players utilize their potential skills, ie; technique. Think of technique as the application of raw ability. Some players utilize it better than others. Some players may not have great physical measurables but take those to the MAX on every down of every game (see Jerry Rice), while others have freak athletic measurables but are unable or undisciplined enough to harness them to any meaningful potential (see Tony Mandarich, The Boz, Troy Williamson, Ahmad Carroll, Jamal Ferguson, etc).

EA can keep ratings but they need meaningful data and a meaningful data distribution that truly tells how players stand out from one another. What we have now is a cluster of skills and techniques where every player in the game is clumped from 60-99 in everything. According to the data I have, the distribution is much wider and the space between a great player and an average player out of college is much greater. Madden needs to reflect this. I feel like the guys at 2k Sports do this correctly with their NBA 2K games. The elites really stand out.

[vicaddict]

In my opinion EA should indeed start all over, if only for the fact that they can't explain half of the ratings in the first place.

Of course players need to have ratings. But those ratings should actually matter and users should know what a specific rating does. All we are doing is guessing and the fact that EA uses the AWR skill as some kind of OVR adjustment tells me that some of those ratings are pointless. There is no longer a footwork rating and yet it appears in the depth chart sometimes. I don't even have to bring up the entire O-line debate, do I?

[Kwazi813]

I just hope one day Madden can take five seconds to differentiate between 34 and 43 front seven personnel. Look at CCM, they act like a 34 DE is the same as a 43 DE. It's embarassing that they refuse to acknowledge they are completely different positions.

I liked that All Pro football games system. Players had traits and abilities, not some made up number no one understands. I mean how the hell do you even put ratings into numbers? What scientific method are you using to determine the ball carrier vision of a rookie? How exactly did you determine Chris Johnson is X speed and Mike Wallace is Y speed?

There's no transparency, and players rarely act like they do in real life. Clay Matthews is never out hustling everyone. Ray Lewis isn't inspirational. Calvin rarely uses his size like he should.

I know the system will never be perfect, but I also know that it shouldn't suck this hard.

[briz1744]

Quote: Originally Posted by vicaddict

In my opinion EA should indeed start all over, if only for the fact that they can't explain half of the ratings in the first place. Of course players need to have ratings. But those ratings should actually matter and users should know what a specific rating does. All we are doing is guessing and the fact that EA uses the AWR skill as some kind of OVR adjustment tells me that some of those ratings are pointless. There is no longer a footwork rating and yet it appears in the depth chart sometimes. I don't even have to bring up the entire O-line debate, do I?

The ratings ( 0-99 ) in games are just one factor in the CPU win/lose calculations constantly being made at every instance of every play in many ways the range of ratings is less crucial to the outcome of such than the thresholds/weightings that the CPU employs when using them ie
A tackle rating of 50 can be set to equate to a 50% chance of a a successful tackle (other factors/ratings being equal) or a 95% chance by the programmer etc or a pass-block rating likewise , the ratings only matter as much as the programmer allows them to
Imagine ratings as a dice-roll where the necessary total to win can be altered depending on the desired win-result %,
IMO many of these weightings ( not ratings) need adjusting in recent maddens
I believe the sliders work by altering these weightings but the sliders only affect some calculations not all ( PUR is one that I feel needs major tuning) however as the whole balance of the game is affected this may be harder to achieve than it may superficially appear

[CM Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kwazi813

I just hope one day Madden can take five seconds to differentiate between 34 and 43 front seven personnel. Look at CCM, they act like a 34 DE is the same as a 43 DE. It's embarassing that they refuse to acknowledge they are completely different positions.

The NFL doesn't differentiate for contract purposes. It seems correct, then, that the game does not either. As to ratings, they are absolutely differentiated; case and point, compare 3-4 DE Marcus Spears of the Cowboys to 4-3 DE Mark Anderson of the Bills.

Quote:

I liked that All Pro football games system. Players had traits and abilities, not some made up number no one understands. I mean how the hell do you even put ratings into numbers? What scientific method are you using to determine the ball carrier vision of a rookie? How exactly did you determine Chris Johnson is X speed and Mike Wallace is Y speed?

Behind those traits in APF are numbers; those who have made APF roster editors have proven this. Fundamentally, computers are driven by numbers. If your desire is that the numbers be hidden, I agree with you. However, somewhere in the game at some level a player's speed is going to be quantified into an exact number.

As to how Madden quantifies a player's skill set, reportedly they are deciding ratings based upon NFL Combine workout data and some sort of player scouting done external from EA Sports.