Created new thread. Discoveries made in this thread lead to a change in philosophy. You can see the path I took on the last couple of pages. I just could NOT get the CPU AI playing smart. No matter what I did, what I changed, it would just be stupid stupid stupid with really good QBs. I also noticed all the changes effect more than just what you change that there is now way to keep track. We make incremental changes to the point we end up tiring ourselves out and we end up sticking on something. Go back the next day and don't like where we left off. I would have one thing great and something would happen and I would feel the need for an immediate tweak and that killed the consistency of the game and mainly the AI. Especially the penalties which you can work to get a desired outcome but is that really what we want? My favorite penalty IG, no matter which way I went I would se good decisions and bad decisions. At the end of the day IG would change the QB's traits and force them to hold it longer or throw it faster and that throws the whole rhythm off. Combine that with the QB thinking it's pass blocking is 0 or 100 and thinking everyone is open because we've changed pass reaction or who knows what it just led to INT after INT after INT. Then I would try to dumb down my players which is just bad. So I scrapped it. Worked a near theory on balance and was amazed by the instant results.
Been working on this set for the last few nights. I really think I have created an exciting set of sliders that provide great gameplay, great animations and realistic results. These ratings are not based on difficulty or any firm set of rules. All I wanted to do was try to emulate real football as best as I know it. The main thing I focused on after a lot of testing was eliminate the handicaps EA placed on the AI.
The different difficulty levels make the game play easier or harder but what exactly makes them easier or harder? Do the players all run faster for your team? Does the CPU hold back to let you keep up? It's hard to tell. Where EA is handicapping you or boosting the CPU or the other way around. How do we know if the ratings really got taken into account or if you won because on all-pro your design to win a little more of the time. I wanted to eliminate the boosting and holding back and allow all the players to play at their full potential.
The key slider for me is the fumble slider. As far as I'm concerned it includes balance, footwork, and vision. With fumble slider higher the RBs run better, period, point blank, end of story. Is it because they are not concerned about fumbling? Probably and it unleashes the AI to actually try to get away from defenders and it changes the running game. And yes, they still fumble!
Check my notes on the bottom to see all the observations I've made.
UPDATED 1/27
CPU QB IS BACK. IG down to 1. QB will now react in the face of pressure and make a throw. Sometimes too early, sometimes too late. QBA comes into account and on 25 romo has made a couple overthrows but made a pinpoint pass on the run as well so we shall see.
Hum FUM down to 95 and BTK up 5. Fixes some issue with CPU pursuit/tackling that occurs when on 100. They are afraid of the RB. On this they hit and hit hard. Tackle > FUM.
VIDEOS!
Run reaction effects a few different things with the difference: 1)How quickly they make that initial "RUN!" reaction and get downfield. On 0 they will strafe down the LOS for awhile until they finally go after the RB when hes gotten much closer and hes already about to cross the LOS or already has. As you go up they react progressively quickly. How this effects run blocking is important first for the D-line because the D-line will always be the first to recognize it's a run. They are the closest and have their eyes right int he backfield. I had run blocking too low for human so when they saw it was a run they could easily toss their man aside. Of course, they all did this at the same time because they all saw the same thing at the same time. I attributed to this to BS sync and lowered run reaction by mistake. What I SHOULD have done is up run blocking. These big 3-4 d-lineman don't just disengage whenever they want, they are space eaters and get push and take up blockers. After upping run blocking to a balance level for all pro (CPU RBK on 100, my Run reaction on 50. USER RBK on 50 CPU Reaction 75 for now) those lineman don't disengage instantly. It depends on the matchup! I have one 3-4 DE for the Redskins, assuming hes really strong, push my RT into the backfield. The other DE got cutblock by the C. The DT gets pushed out of the hole. The LB easily throws Gonzalez to the side after a second or two and is the first defender to shed. Balancing these allows for REAL holes to open up in the line depending on matchups of size and skill
2) How quickly the defenders can react to the runners as they go for the tackle. On 0 defenders will routinely run right past the runner and not attempt a tackle. They will stay really close to the RB and just turn around and make make an attempt on the pursuit. Just bad. On blitzes they will run by the RB for 5+ steps before they stop and reverse field. They follow the blitz all the way to the QB almost and then turn around. On 50/75 run reactions now the LBs can adjust much better to being hit with a run while their blitzing. They use their eyes.
Here's a play that I just ran:
My C and RG get 3 step push foward, my RT gets pushed into the backfield but not shed! Shows a powerful DT that is eating up space but not going to make many tackles in their 3-4. but he clears the space behind him and there are 2 LBs waiting for me. The LB on the left came on a blitz and was able to react to my cutback from the right to the middle and plant and change direction to give chase. I stumble on my RT's feet and the left LB makes up the ground and there is a 4 way collision that I slip under because I'm stumbling. The LBs turn their heads and crash into other helmet to helmet. As the left LB falls on top of me and rolls over. You can really see his momentum carried him and hard and he barreled into Fletcher and and knocked Fletcher on his back as he fell on me. Pretty nice interaction.
In general my run blocking is still bad like it should be but the runs play out entirely different.
Another play:
My line gets different level of push depending on matchup of size/skill. My TE is the only one who gets shed when i'm in the backfield but the C gets pushed back into my face by a strong DT. They are running a 3-4 and the dline was pinched so my guard and tackle can get to LBs. The Defenders behind me shed at different intervals, they dont all get off in unison because the runblocking ratings are kicking in I guess and certain players can hold block longer. I weave and get 9 yards on a draw. C and TE who got shed at 40, LT and standingLB at 44, RG and DE at 43. LG at the 47 and RT heads straight ahead at a backpedalling linebacker and hits him at the 50. I can't tell if the LB is playing his coverage or purposely retreating from the RT. He's the one who end's up making the tackle on me.
I'm also seeing the D-lineman bat down passes organically. Sometimes when they can't get a push because of the improve pass blocking they just jump in the throwing lane. Sometimes they get a hand on it and the ball flutters and sometimes it gets caught and sometimes it drops. Sometimes it misses their hands and goes where it was intended.
Also a conclusion on Tackling:
I see more missed tackles on 100 than 75. Period. Tackling is more realistic on 100. Dunta goes for knockout shot on Moss and bounces off. Nicholas gets trucked by morris but drags him down. Moore hast o make 1 on 1 tackle and you can see Morris is stronger by the contact going in hsi favor but he gets tackled anyway. Next play jukes through the hole and gets blasted by MLB. Tackling on 100. 100. 100. Run defense will be tweaked with run reaction/btk. CPU is also more fearful of defenders with tackle on 100 so they try to avoid tackles much better. Shifty jukes, spins, wiggle, covering ball, change of direction, churning feet, trying to fight through tackles, etc. all that from every one who runs with the ball in their hands but to varying degrees of success. The defenders will all attempt every type of tackle depending on position and momentum but to varying degrees of success. I have only pushed Morris backwards two times on 10+ touches but i've made one on one tackles. Ratings are taken into account much more. On 75 everyone was knocking morris out.
All-Pro
Fast.
Speed Threshold: 100
15 minutes
15 second accelerated clock
Injuries 35
Fatigue 35 (Testing for realistic fatigue on long drives)
NOTES: Allpro/pass reaction/threshold
This is definitely an All-Pro set but that doesn't really mean anything, I think the game plays great and the difficulty is still there, just had to tone down my players playing above their ratings. I caved in and made one slider change and up DPI to 100 lol, the rest are 50. I really want to see one called. I love the DB reaction/INTs on 50/75. I'm really getting punished for stupid throws and it will keep me on my game. On 25 the man coverage was too sticky and the CPU would throw INTs because the CB would have stupid inside positon on routes. On 50 its more realisitic and they play zone and man well enough based on their ratings. Threw two interceptions on late passes. Manning has tried me deep, thrown some intermediate stuff, check downs, he threw it away once. He even moved around in the pocket a bit and threw a pass. The tackles are great at 100 and thats not going down. I love to see every tackle as long as that damn bang doesnt kick it which is happening less now. Fast Threshold 100 gives me such great control over the players especially when I turned auto-strafe on for D and was gentle with the left stick. I love it. I upped the CPU running to max, they need it. The CPU RB is just an idiot otherwise and thats all I ever see when they hand off and its no fun playing D. I want to be on my HEELS and with what i want for the animation/feel of the game with the other sliders this has to be done to get the RB's to be fearless. As my boy would put it they are playing up their maximum capability. On Matthews first carry after I upped it he takes a handoff outside and pivots upfield and gets 2 yards but its so much better than the him running into the back of the blocker.
Fatigue/Autosubs
Most position's, players in general, dont sub because they are tired. RBs and WRs do sometimes have long runs or if they take a big shot. Your QB or oline is never sitting a play because they got tired. Same goes for your defense for the most part. LBs and Dlineman get rotated by their coaches for packages, freshnesss, we CANNOT rely on madden to this based off fatigue. How would that ever work? If you want to replicate the NFL you're going to have to replicate NFL coaches and do a little work pick your plays and call subs and know who you're putting in and taking out. Personally I think it's one of the most fun parts of the game. My friend still doesn't understand why I always sub out the MLB and put the ROLB in on the nickle packages lol. That's the Falcons nickle package and I've always liked to mimic it, plus having a more athletic player helps in madden too. Trying to figure out how the colors even work. I put it on 90 and turner went read much quicker than when it was on 75. I'm thinking red means close to subbing more than it means they are actually red tired like we would think on a gauge from red to green. Decided to go with no auto-subs, well setting them 0/1 and letting fatigue have an effect the entire game and see where I want to put the fatigue setting.
CPU Run offense and how fatigue plays a part
Bush gets an 8 yard run and Tannehill gets a 24 yard pass. guys still blue. RT gets beat again though. damn this must be a glitch. No one else can get any push and the RT gets beat againnnnn. Tannehill beats my blitz by just enough and gets 20 on a slant. Now my Dline is orange and my FS is too.
Bush gets a 10 yard run then a 3 yard run. One of my LBs subs out. Im liking the fatigue factor is making it easy for them to run. I actually want to lower fatigue to the point where they never sub because fatigue would take a 20+ play drive to get them down to that level instead of them subbing out after the 8th play of a 10 play drive. That would be ideal. I think I can leave run reaction if they fatigue.
WOW saw a sick punch fumble! for some reason the CPU has the WR playing RB (autosub for bush? preaseason depth chart out of wack? play design? not really sure). But he takes a toss left and my CB gets pass the TE and collides with the WR. Looks like the WR actually got the better of it but you can see the CBs hand do a swiping movement and the ball pops out and bounces toward the sideline and my player falls on it on his side and slides out of bounds. I love the ball physics on fast. The fatigue D makes a stand in the redzone!
CPU QBA
Testing QBA for CPU now, put it up to 75 and his first pass is an INT. Too ambitious? Set to 25 and he throws to open guy. Making the shorter throws now. Going to move safety and see if he takes deep shot still. He does but throws it too fast after the playaction and it's inaccurate.
RG3 kills Robinson on another slant. QBA down to 25 big improvement in decision making. Redskins held the opening drive for 7 minutes! 8 rushes by Morris, 7 passes by RG3, one turned into a rush because he scrambled. That's a 15 play TD drive with runs of 5, 0, -5, 4, 7, , 3, 8, -4, 2. Passes of 16, 8, 12, 13, 3.
Pass Blocking
I think I see whats wrong with the pass blocking there is TOO much shedding going on, even unsuccessful shedding. The DT is just spinning around trying over and over and eventually gets dropped. The Ends do their swim moves right away and either win or try again or get pancaked. The only time the pocket is as it should be is when the tackles get their hands on the DE and punch them in the chest. I am going to drop pass rush all the way down and see what that does to the shedding.
Fumble
Definitely sticking with 100s. Momentum playing into factor of tackles. High fumble and BTK allows my power back to be a power back and fall forward and get his extra yards without having to juke or spin or run through someone. Maybe make a new thread called 100 sliders? Lol.
I go 100/100. RG3 scrambles nicely, runs away from defenders into middle of the field and slides. Morris cuts back but is swarmed for 2. Gets 5 then 5 more. More realistic bad defense if that makes sense lol. He gets another good carry then RG3 hits a play action pass then they run a shotgun draw for 10. Going to have to focus on playing D now. Will post box score.
Passing
Love love love the pockets. And if I move out of it the DE sheds and comes after me. Prevents panic drop backs and scrambling with slow QBs. Can still stick a pass between LB and trailing corner by leading up on the left stick. All Pro gets more left stick control, more forgiving than all-madden at least.
With these sliders there is variety in the outcomes in the battle of the trenches without either side pushing too far up/backfield. Players go up for the ball. RBs break tackles but there are plenty of defenders there to clean it up. If you throw into coverage you will get picked. Playcalling matters. User input matters, you will have to be the difference because in the NFL it really is about the QB's decision making. 10 passes for 10 yards still get you all the way down the field. Trying to make the big play every play on D will get you burnt. Force yourself to check for the blitz every play. Look for one on one coverage but understand the matchup. Use the Total Control Passing. Hopefully thats how they play out for others. That's why I'm posting this so I can see because I want everyone to have fun playing football like we watch it.
The only success I could have passing was off of play action, even though thats how I took my two sacks because I didn't read the D before the play and cancel out of the play action with the R trigger. I felt like I was a rookie out there and didn't understand the speed of NFL defenses haha. I knew what I did wrong as soon as I did it but I was just use to being careless on other pass reaction/INT combos and it bit me. Most of my completions were relatively easy except maybe 1 or 2 I used the total control passing on. I was getting great protection and waiting for guys to get open after 3 seconds and getting hit sometimes as throwing. Definitely wouldn't work against a good defense. I wasn't going short enough.
(On throwing 7 INTs in a game. First game with the pass reaction set)
First off the INTs were all my fault, all horrible throws. I am not use to this pass reaction at all and 4-5 of those would've been drops on INT 25 lol. None of them were cheap however, all deserved. Nothing special done by CPU.
Just threw another pick six! The CB is standing there watching my WR run a 5 yard curl with a 10 yard cushion and I throw it anyway and the CB steps in front of it easily. The head tracking is pretty sick with this passing reaction time. The players who can see the ball react and those who can't dont. On long passes, short passes, all the time. Have had guys get hit in the back covering slants when the QB threw it anyway.
I feel like a rookie QB in this first half. I'm 11/18 for 182 1TD and 2INT with a long of 39. I have been really shaky against the pressure, pressing the wrong button, taking too long to make a read, not checking down, locking on a receiver. My crutch was the playaction pass that I probably got 4-5 completions on including the long 39 yard TD to Gonzo down the seam. I see I have really gotten relaxed passing without pressure coming in 5 seconds. I'm ignoring blitzers and paying for it.
Defensive P.I. called
I run a play action bootleg and completely ignore the bootleg part but I get good protection. Julio is my primary receiver coming on a drag across the field against a zone. The TE and WR on other side clearout so the the OLB on the right side backpedals with White but after he backs up 15 yards from the LOS he plants his foot and comes back toward the LOS. Julio is at the left has crossing the face of the other OLB and MLB and coming into the open spot of the zone. Instead of throwing it when Julio is in front of the MLB and leading him to spot I wait until he gets into the spot to throw it. So I'm throwing from the left hash to the right numbers. The pass is off and julio has to keep running toward the sideline but come down toward the LOS. The LB shuffles his feet at the 25 like he was going to stop or like he was reacting to the pass but keeps heading toward the LOS. The LB gets to the spot first and instead of going for the ball, he turns and faces Julio. He's looking into Julio's earhole as Julio has his arms out to make the catch but he runs into julios arms and starts making a second too early. FLAG!
Pass D scenario
Manning in a single back shotgun set. I call a double LB blitz out of nickle and the RB goes out for a pass so its 5 blockers vs 6 rushers. They pick up 5 and I come free right in his face but the shotgun snap gave him just enough time to throw it. He throws it to the spot like Manning would but the CB has really good position on the inside and is in front of the WR coming across the field. The Safety is between the WR/CB and QB standing with the TE on a curl. Both the CB and S go up for an INT but I'm pretty sure the CB pushes the safety out of the sure INT or at least knockdown. The ball goes between their two sets of hands and the WR is trailing right behind to catch it. Turns upfield and outruns the safety to the endzone. One of those plays that would have me yelling at the TV, CALL FOR THE BALL!!! I can't check the traits on the depth chart but on the pause menu it says Conservative with a yellow down arrow for the CB and the S is on a hot streak so he probably really would have picked it.
This INT is RG3's fault. My nickle corner is covering the HB man standing next to RG3 in the shotgun. He takes the snap and the HB and i'm blitzing 2 LBs. I'm controlling one of the blitzing LB and I should be coming through a hole and engaging with the RB or getting past him to hit RG3 but I'm just watching the play. I pushed the stick by mistake so the CPU stop controlling him. My nickle corner falls off into coverage since his man stays into block and we already have a blitz on. The CB turns and sprints toward the middle of the field where my SS is man to man with a slot WR (bad alignment on D by me). My SS plays the outside with his back to the middle of the field but the WR runs an inside post and kills him on the turn. RG3 is locked in on this WR from the snap, he sees the 1 on 1 and knows whats about to happen. My outside corners have things locked down. He's so locked in he never turns his head off the WR to see the CB falling into coverage. He throws the WR open and it would've been a perfect pass but the CB had the skills to get underneath it and leap up for the INT. If he's not there its 6 for them easily. No one is behind the WR except the ref. RG3 made this same throw over a LB earlier and the LB could'nt react. Also cool how on the return the LBs and lineman who are not looking remained engaged and fighting til the whistle. Other lineman and RG3 are trying to make a tackle. LOVE the reactions. Talk about an unpredictable INT. if the RB goes out into the flat our my CB decides to come and blitz instead of fall back then its 6 points the other way. Thats the variety I want to see. Not RG3 throwing it right to a guy looking him in the eye for an INT.
Game observations
Notes from second game
-2 dropped passes because of being hit on my first drive
-CPU RB drops easy pass
-BJG makes one foot spin through hole.
-CPU HB puts his hand up as he runs through the zone, im using my MLB to cover him and he puts his hands up cus hes behind me running and im strafing with him. Dalton throws after the hand goes up and lobs it into the open spot of the zone but its so high up my S/CB recover and make the hit and break it up.
Coolest thing was the head tracking, the CB who wasnt looking when the pass was thrown did not turn and go after it
-CB Webb attempted a toetap INT in the back of the endzone on an overthrown deepball but it hit his shoulder during the animation.
-Julio drops pass on contact. Roddy catches pass jumping with ed reed.
-Dlineman are putting their hands up to batt balls. Physics on fast allow for fun ball reactions.
WR/DB interaction
Headtracking on DB swat/passblocking [VOLUME CHECK]
For people who want some numbers I just played a game against the Seahawks. Probably one of the most complete games I've ever played. Only made a handful of mistakes (throws into coverage, too much left stick on the pass, hitstick misses, overrunning plays) instead of a sack full haha. This game was all about Ryan keeping drives going by finding the open guy. I hit my checkdowns when I saw the blitz right away. Didn't try to take too much deep. The 66 yard TD was a 15 yard pass that I used the total control passing to squeeze over the zone and sherman dove to make a tackle and tripped up his pursuit help, not that they could catch Julio! (highlight coming soon). That was the biggest play of the game and kept me in the lead. Playing with the lead helped me keep Lynch in check somewhat and Wilson couldn't beat me when he was forced to pass. He had a good game but couldn't keep pace. Made some clutch user plays on third downs. I can say for sure if I would've been only controlling Dlineman game would've went differently. Could've easily given up 2 more TDs. The one TD I did give up could've been stopped at the 3 if I didnt try to hit stick with a CB lol. Score may look like a blow out but it wasn't that easy, I took full advantage of all of ATL's talent. But you guys will see this is a preview for Sunday, I hope
*TD for Defender is TFL. Had to leave off 4 Defenders for Seattle with 1 tackle.
Seattle Seahawks at Atlanta Falcons
Jan 1,
1ST
2ND
3RD
4TH
SCORE
Seattle Seahawks ()
0
10
3
0
13
Atlanta Falcons ()
3
14
7
7
31
Team Stats Comparison
SEA
ATL
Total Offense
283
459
Rushing Yards
97
133
Passing Yards
186
326
First Downs
12
20
Punt Return Yards
13
25
Kick Return Yards
79
52
Total Yards
375
536
Turnovers
1
1
3rd Down Converstion
5/12
7/13
4th Down Conversion
0
2/2
2-Point Conversion
0
0
Red Zone Touchdowns/Field Goals
1/1
2/4
Penalties
3-17
4-34
Posession Time
12:33
19:27
Scoring Summary
FIRST QUARTER SCORING
SEA
ATL
4:55
(ATL) 44 Yard FG
0
3
SECOND QUARTER SCORING
SEA
ATL
7:36
(ATL) Turner, 25 Yard Run
0
10
1:48
(SEA) Tate, 13 Yard Rec
7
10
1:00
(ATL) Jones 66 Yard Rec
7
17
0:19
(SEA) 46 Yardd FG
10
17
THIRD QUARTER SCORING
SEA
ATL
6:43
(SEA) 39 Yard FG
13
17
2:20
(ATL) Tirmer, 4 Yard Run
13
24
FOURTH QUARTER SCORING
SEA
ATL
2:50
(ATL) Rodgers, 7 Yard RUn
13
31
Seattle Seahawks
PASSING
C/A
YDS
TD
INT
R. Wilson
14/21
204
1
1
RUSHING
ATT
YDS
AVG
TD
M. Lynch
17
70
4.1
0
R. Wilson
5
20
4.0
0
R. Turbin
3
7
2.3
RECEIVING
REC
YDS
AVG
TD
G. Tate
5
135
27.0
1
D. Butler
3
33
11.
0
S. Rice
2
30
15.0
0
Z. Miller
2
8
4.0
0
M. Robinson
1
-5
-5.0
0
D. Baldwin
1
3
3.0
0
BLOCKING
PANCAKE
SACK
B. Giacomini
0
1
M. Unger
0
1
DEFENSE
TACK
SACK
INT
TD
R. Sherman
10
0
0
0
B. Wagner
8
0
0
0
E. Thomas
8
0
0
0
K. Wright
4
0
0
0
B. Mebane
3
0
0
0
C. Clemons
3
1
0
0
K. Chancellor
3
0
0
2
M. Turfant
3
0
1
0
A. Branch
2
0
0
0
L. HIll
2
0
0
0
J. Lane
2
0
0
0
C. Maragos
2
0
0
0
J. Howard
2
0
0
0
M. Smith
2
0
0
0
J. Sweezy
1
0
0
0
Atlanta Falcons
PASSING
C/A
YDS
TD
INT
M. Ryan
25/34
326
1
1
RUSHING
ATT
YDS
AVG
TD
M. Turner
22
93
4.2
2
J. Rodgers
9
42
4.6
1
M. Ryan
3
-2
-.06
RECEIVING
REC
YDS
AVG
TD
R. White
6
45
7.5
M. Turner
3
18
6.9
T. Gonzalez
3
35
11.6
J. Jones
3
114
38.0
1
H. Douglas
3
43
14.3
M. Palmer
2
32
16.0
J. Rodgers
2
19
9.5
J. Snelling
1
5
5.0
BLOCKING
PANCAKE
SACK
P. Konz
1
0
DEFENSE
TACK
SACK
INT
TD
W. Moore
6
1
0
2
A. Dent
5
1
0
1
K. Biermann
5
1
0
2
S. Weatherspoon
4
0
0
0
D. Robinson
3
0
0
1
C. Owens
4
0
0
0
T. Decoud
3
0
0
0
P. Jerry
2
0
0
0
J. Abraham
2
0
0
1
A. Samuel
2
0
0
0
C. Hope
2
0
0
0
S. Nicholas
2
0
0
1
M. Peterson
1
0
0
0
R. McClain
1
0
0
0
J. Babineaux
1
0
0
0
Longest Run: Turner 25, Rogers 12, Ryan 2. Lynch 13, Wilson 14, Turbin 3.
Yards after first hit: Turner 29, Lynch 37, Rodgers 13, Wilson 5, Tubin 3.
Dropped passes: Gonzalez 1, Lynch 1.
Seattle: 4 players with 1 Pdef, Atl: 5 players.
Wilson's longest pass was 45
Last edited by wordtobigbird; 01-10-2013 at 04:00 AM.
Have you looked at the work done by tamburo22? He too advocates a zero slider approach. I've been following his suggestions and having great games. The gameplay is incredible at times and ratings do seem to matter.
As to your settings I have a few questions:
- how do you handle play calling? Do you use Conventional, call your own plays or allow Madden to call the plays for you?
- Do you hot route to take advantage of favorable match ups and/or audible?
- Which players (other than QB) do you control? Do you control the HB on run plays or allow the CPU to control him?
- With 8 minute quarters have you noticed an impact on the way the CPU calls plays? In the past, with shorter quarters I believed that play calling was effected as it seemed the CPU made calls where it considered the amount of time left in the game. Ie. if the down in the score the CPU would call more passing plays thinking it had less time. Even though the amount of plays run might be similar, the type of calls made might be different due to perception.
I look forward to more input and giving these a try. Thanks for sharing.
Looking for feedback on this set I've been playing with. First and foremost, thanks to Drtro for the base set. All credit goes to him. I didn't make the sliders. Just adjusted some things. After using his base set and loving them but looking for adjustments I went around reading threads for help. You guys have put in some great lab work figuring out what makes what work and I took what tips I could find and tried them out. I'd consider these community settings with Drtro's sliders. Unfortunately I don't recall exactly where I got some of what I did. Anyway, I just want to see if other people get the same results I do from these.
What I focused on after using the base set was difficulty. Most of the time we want to do this by making players play better or worse but I really dont like the thought of that. (Thats why I tried the zero sliders.) Then I thought about the couple of reasons I always win: CPU QB decision making that made it so hard for CPU to sustain a drive and horrible pursuit angles giving me huge plays that should've just been big plays. Regardless of the team if you get big plays and the opposing CPU cant throw for a first down consistently you will win. Regardless of the great slider sets I used I ran into this problem when the set FELT good gameplay wise. Then the more difficult sets just made the CPU dominate my CPU teammates regardless of the teams. So the goal: let the ratings play out and limit big plays.
In the NFL a big play is 20+ yards. A quick look on NFL.com showed me that AP had 27 20+ yard runs (WOW!). the next 3 players 12 and 11. Every other NFL RB had less than 10 throughout the entire season. Only 25 had more than 5. In Madden, we all know any fast RB is liable to take a run outside for 20 yards on a consistent basis when a big outside run should be 8-15 yards. That should make you feel like you gashed the D. We think in madden terms of getting yards 20-30-40 yard plays on a CONSISTENT basis which just doesnt happen. You have to work into those opportunities and cash in. We can't just think the game is too hard when we dont.
We all know most of the time in the NFL the difference between winning and losing is the QB. Even when good teams play bad teams. On a game to game basis anything can happen. Just think about all the upsets this year and all of the "how were they close" games. The difference is the QB and in Madden we are the QB's. If we play well with the QB the offense should move and if we don't it shouldn't. You can use Matt Ryan and throw 5 INTs to the Cardinals if the ball tips that way. Just because the ratings are higher doesnt mean a given victory. Regarding teams and player match ups.
Once big plays are toned down scores are kept in check. Redzone defense comes into play a lot more. You play with a sense of urgency on D to not make a small mistake to give up one of those plays. QBs have to be effective finding the open receivers and getting first downs. Hence CPU having balls to make throws being key. It just changes the whole game. Thats what I've tried to do a little bit of. Hopefully I'm not just high . Thanks in advance for any feedback.
GENERAL
All-Madden Slow. Speed Threshold 75
Threshold at 75 helped toned down the big plays. you can still outrun guys with a fast player but you will outrun them for 15 yards instead of 50. I feel on the lower values it happens too easily.
I left off Injuries Fatigue and Clock settings because it depends on how you want to set them up. They don't effect the gameplay too much IMO. It comes down to how many plays you want to run of course with the clock. I do notice that if you turn off accelerated clock fatigue has much more effect. Plenty of guys have done hard work in this area and I haven't played enough games to break down amount of injuries and substitutions and their realism so just keep that in mind.
8 minutes No accelerated clock Injuries 43 Fatigue 55
DT - 50/60 DE - 60/70 LB - 40/60 CB - 40/60 S - 40/60
These are the settings Drtro had and I left it this way and used his auto-subs. I recommend you give them a shot, I saw a lot of fatigue on sustained drives without a lot of unnecessary substitutions on defense. Lowered to 8 minutes because of the speed that I call plays and no acc clock.
PENALTIES
Have a huge impact. These are what really changed the game for me. Again, accuracy of number of calls per number of plays? I have no idea, but the game plays well. Honestly, in Madden only Facemask or Holding ever get called most of the time so they have to make up for all the penalties that never do get called, so if they happen a lot I just let it go. But tweak them as you see fit.
From the base set I dropped DPI to 25. In one of the threads here it said that it made the DB's play tighter and they were correct. I also adjusted the pursuit of the CPU D here by dropping Roughing the Kicker and KR to 0 because of another posters suggestion. Worked.
Based on what I read the zeros leave the ratings to do the work. I haven't actually tested it by checking the numbers and matchups and all of that. I do notice the better players stand out but the bad players aren't incompetent.
With these sliders there is variety in the outcomes in the battle of the trenches without either side pushing too far up/backfield. Players go up for the ball. RBs break tackles but there are plenty of defenders there to clean it up. If you throw into coverage you will get picked. Playcalling matters. User input matters, you will have to be the difference because in the NFL it really is about the QB's decision making. 10 passes for 10 yards still get you all the way down the field. Trying to make the big play every play on D will get you burnt. Force yourself to check for the blitz every play. Look for one on one coverage but understand the matchup. Use the Total Control Passing. Hopefully thats how they play out for others. That's why I'm posting this so I can see because I want everyone to have fun playing football like we watch it.
RISE UP FALCONS!
I'm glad to see somebody else agrees with my thinking that having most settings at 0 makes the players play to their ratings...even if you are a Falcons fan!!
Just a few thoughts regarding your set...
I've tried threshold at 75, 50, 60, 100 but it made me feel like my players were stuck in quicksand. While I do agree that it helps cut down on the big plays, I feel the gameplay suffers so I keep it at 0.
Other than that, my penalty sliders are a bit different than yours but I like your thinking.
I've never shared sliders before? Unless you're talking about the wiki thread.
I play with everything at 0 just about.
If you run 0-based sliders with the Run vs Pass ratio thread, Madden becomes realistically fun and sometimes challenging.
Try running your sliders and change your opponents Playbook before the game.
Arizona Cardinals-balanced*
Atlanta Falcons- pass balanced*
Baltimore Ravens - balance
Buffalo Bills-run balance
Carolina Panthers -panthers*
Chicago Bears - run balanced*
Cincinnati Bengals -pass balanced
Cleveland Browns- balanced
Dallas Cowboys-pass balanced*
Denver Broncos-pass balanced
Detroit Lions – Lions
Green Bay Packers- run and gun
Houston Texans- texans or run balanced ( more passing on 1st and 2nd down)
Indianapolis Colts -vermeil
Jacksonville Jaguars- run balanced
Kansas City Chiefs-run balanced
Miami Dolphins- west coast
Minnesota Vikings - billicks
New England Patriots- balance*
New Orleans Saints – run and gun
New York Giants- pass balanced
New York Jets-run balance
Oakland Raiders- run balance
Philadelphia Eagles- west coast
Pittsburgh Steelers -pass balanced
Saint Louis Rams-run balance
San Diego Chargers - pass balanced*
San Francisco 49ers – 49ers or run balanced ( more passing on 1st and 2nd down)
Seattle Seahawks-run balance
Tampa Bay Buccaneers -run balance
Tennessee Titans- balanced
Washington Redskins-redskins
I think this is a beautiful set and I appreciate your preface on the subject of difficulty. The zero concepts also work well - the lower the better in a lot of these sliders will also get the computer to play more competitively. I'll be releasing a set that helps a user scale their skillset which is similar to the base you have established here as well as the concepts you are using. I feel like that's what you are already doing for the general community is helping them scale their skill set while still trying to give them the ultimate experience of Gameplay and difficulty. We all know penalties are somewhat of a write off in the attempt to achieve the appropriate gameplay so I can sympathize with your decision to zero out some of them and lower some while raising others.
Cheers to you and cheers to Drtro. This was a good write up on the QB effects too and how significant the QB performance can determine the outcome of a game.
So I found that creating an equal number for Run Block and Tackle with Break Tackle set to 0 makes the game a lot better. I've had this.
CPU
Break Tackle - 0
Run Block - 25
Tackle - 25
The running game is still consistent with good averages. With the break tackle at 0, it'll limit the TE or WR breaking the tackle after a catch and making a big play. This keeps the yardage stats down to get realistic numbers. I played against the Lions and they averaged around 4 yards consistently. Only a few were behind the line and they got 2 or 3 10-15 yard runs.
With the Human, I play both break tackle and run block at 0. I still get good runs. I saw a big difference between my backs as well. With Richardson (Browns), I was getting good gains and breaking tackles, but when Jackson subbed in I was struggling to get a decent gain. Richardson averaged almost 5 per carry while Jackson was around 3.
The only thing I'm still testing on is getting the CPU a good completion %. Whenever I get a good 55-65% average, they throw big numbers. I'm thinking of setting the speed threshold high to limit big plays. That and the WR breaking so many tackles leads to inflated stats. Break Tackle at 0 and finding a threshold should fix it.
01-10-2013, 01:46 AM
. Thanks in advance for any feedback.
