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R0M0mentum09 · 07-21-2011, 07:47 PM

1st ignore my avatar as I'm as unbiased as they come.

The release of 99 overall ratings for Madden NFL 12 has recently sparked much debate. This is one that caught my eye.

Who's the better overall TE?

Witten had a slightly better statistical season than Gates (44 more catches though). It should also be noted that Gates missed 6-7 games (still put up noteworthy stats) and Jason Witten had Jon Kitna under center for over half the season (Impressive feats for both!)

My assessment. . .

Athleticism/Measurables: *Gates* by a land slide

Hands: *Witten* 4th TE to ever reach 600 catches and did it at the fastest pace ever. Witten is the only current TE on pace to break Tony Gonzalez TE catch record. Vernon Davis was quoted "Jason Witten possesses the best hands of any WR/TE in the NFL".

Route Running: *Witten* Gates can be a bit lazy here as his incredible athleticism allows him to be, Witten on the other hand lacks speed/burst and only gets open by running a crisp route.

Blocking: *Witten* Witten is in someways hurt by his blocking ability, he gets limited targets in the redzone due to his teams use of him as a blocker (explains Wittens lack of TD's compared to other "receiving" TE's).

Better Overall TE: *Witten*

Madden OVR ratings: 98 OVR for both.

Your thoughts?.

bkrich83 · 07-21-2011, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R0M0mentum09


	1st ignore my avatar as I'm as unbiased as they come. The release of 99 overall ratings for Madden NFL 12 has recently sparked much debate. This is one that caught my eye. Who's the better overall TE? Witten had a slightly better statistical season than Gates (44 more catches though). It should also be noted that Gates missed 6-7 games (still put up noteworthy stats) and Jason Witten had Jon Kitna under center for over half the season (Impressive feats for both!) My assessment. . . Athleticism/Measurables: *Gates* by a land slide Hands: *Witten* 4th TE to ever reach 600 catches and did it at the fastest pace ever. Witten is the only current TE on pace to break Tony Gonzalez TE catch record. Vernon Davis was quoted "Jason Witten possesses the best hands of any WR/TE in the NFL". Route Running: *Witten* Gates can be a bit lazy here as his incredible athleticism allows him to be, Witten on the other hand lacks speed/burst and only gets open by running a crisp route. Blocking: *Witten* Witten is in someways hurt by his blocking ability, he gets limited targets in the redzone due to his teams use of him as a blocker (explains Wittens lack of TD's compared to other "receiving" TE's). Better Overall TE: *Witten* Madden OVR ratings: 98 OVR for both. Your thoughts?.

Really not sure how you could come up with Witten having better hands or running better routes than Gates. Norv Turner has said Gates runs routes like Henry Ellard which if you know him is his highest praise. He has routinely beaten #1 CB's on routes. Ask Champ Bailey about Gates. I don't see Witten drawing the top CB ever. Gates gets it frequently.

Hands not sure how you quantified this. Witten is a hell of a player but in the pass game Gates simply makes plays no TE in the league is capable.

shnuskis · 07-21-2011, 08:47 PM

I have no issue with them being rated the same but it takes Wittens blocking to bring him up to Gates since he is more dangerous in the passing game. (Thats not a knock by the way, he is fantastic.)

SIMstyle · 07-21-2011, 08:49 PM

ur pretty passionate about this one huh? me and a friend rate players as a hobby since Madden's ratings are so bad and here's my .02...we usually look at the last 3 years to determine an accurate rating and to prevent from overrating when a person has one good year (i.e. we rated Arian Foster an 82) or keeping a player's rating high when they no longer deserve it.

we try to stay away from silly subjective stuff and base 90% of our ratings on data. stuff like "so and so said..." is foolishness. want to see who REALLY has the best hands in the league? use the premium stats on PFF, they track drops and all of the other stuff that is really important. numbers can lie, but not if you look INTO them instead of AT them...

we're also not fans of what people's "alleged" athletic prowess is or stupid Sportscenter highlights. everyone has good plays, but production is king...raising someone's stats for one good game/play makes no sense unless you lower them for a bad one as well. we've always believed that you look at stats for a whole year, but we break the year down into quarters for roster update purposes to show players improving/declining during a season. lastly we dont rate anyone higher than a 96 and an 85 rating is coveted and only applies if a person has 3 years of consistently high numbers.

lastly we base the last 10% on opinions and other intangibles like team success (all numbers are not created equal, 1300 yards rushing on a 2-14 team doesn't equal 1100 yards on a contender that goes deep into the playoffs .vs. better competition and when the yards really count) we also look at offensive and defensive rankings to try to determine if a player is making his team better or not.

Witten's Numbers are beastly to say the least here are the last three seasons. there's not a question whether he's elite or not, how elite is the real question. he and gates are clearly the best two TEs in the league. more than 70 catches and 1,000 yards are unheard of even today at the TE position, so exceeding that is saying something. 4+ TDs is pretty remarkable as well (WRs and TEs are different)

84-952-4
94-1030-2
94-1002-9

Here are Gates' numbers. they are good, there's no question about it, but they aren't at the level of what Witten has achieved. Both play with a good set of receivers, so that is no excuse for either. And while Gates is the #1 target for his QB Witten plays with Miles Austin (a 1,000 yd WR) Dez Bryant and Roy Williams. Both TEs play with good QBs so there's no advantage by either there. Where Gates stands out is as a truly elite target in the redzone even though he missed 6 games last year. he had an average of 9 TDs over the last 3 year period. Here are his numbers:

60-704-8
79-1157-9
50-782-10

In the end, the production is good for both (both teams went to the playoffs twice in the last three years) but Witten was outstanding and gets the nod if you look INTO the numbers. I'd rate Witten a 96 and Gates a 92.

Palo20 · 07-21-2011, 09:33 PM

If I'm starting a team I'll take Gates and his unmatched playmaking ability. I'll sacrifice some blocking.

mojo6911 · 07-21-2011, 09:37 PM

They are two different types of players. No way Gates is a 99, but he is better than Witten.

rich7sena · 07-21-2011, 09:40 PM

I'll always take the player who scores more touchdowns (by a large margin). I don't buy that Witten has better hands because Vernon Davis said so; Gates will go down as one of the best pass catching tight ends in NFL history. The only thing that Gates gives up to Witten is blocking.

FlyEaglesFly3 · 07-21-2011, 09:53 PM

We already had this debate in the top 10 players discussion!

Gates is better, only Cowboys fans support your statements lol.

STOP TRYING TO GET YOUR 6-10 COWBOYS EVEN MORE OVER-RATED!

07-21-2011, 08:47 PM	#3
shnuskis MVP OVR: 17 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: St. Paul, MN Blog Entries: 3	Re: Gates vs Witten I have no issue with them being rated the same but it takes Wittens blocking to bring him up to Gates since he is more dangerous in the passing game. (Thats not a knock by the way, he is fantastic.) __________________ When rookie Randall Cobb was told by this U.S. Marine that he was a big fan of the wide receiver, Cobb said, “I think I’m a bigger fan of yours.”

07-21-2011, 08:49 PM	#4
SIMstyle Banned OVR: 0 Join Date: Jul 2011	Re: Gates vs Witten ur pretty passionate about this one huh? me and a friend rate players as a hobby since Madden's ratings are so bad and here's my .02...we usually look at the last 3 years to determine an accurate rating and to prevent from overrating when a person has one good year (i.e. we rated Arian Foster an 82) or keeping a player's rating high when they no longer deserve it. we try to stay away from silly subjective stuff and base 90% of our ratings on data. stuff like "so and so said..." is foolishness. want to see who REALLY has the best hands in the league? use the premium stats on PFF, they track drops and all of the other stuff that is really important. numbers can lie, but not if you look INTO them instead of AT them... we're also not fans of what people's "alleged" athletic prowess is or stupid Sportscenter highlights. everyone has good plays, but production is king...raising someone's stats for one good game/play makes no sense unless you lower them for a bad one as well. we've always believed that you look at stats for a whole year, but we break the year down into quarters for roster update purposes to show players improving/declining during a season. lastly we dont rate anyone higher than a 96 and an 85 rating is coveted and only applies if a person has 3 years of consistently high numbers. lastly we base the last 10% on opinions and other intangibles like team success (all numbers are not created equal, 1300 yards rushing on a 2-14 team doesn't equal 1100 yards on a contender that goes deep into the playoffs .vs. better competition and when the yards really count) we also look at offensive and defensive rankings to try to determine if a player is making his team better or not. Witten's Numbers are beastly to say the least here are the last three seasons. there's not a question whether he's elite or not, how elite is the real question. he and gates are clearly the best two TEs in the league. more than 70 catches and 1,000 yards are unheard of even today at the TE position, so exceeding that is saying something. 4+ TDs is pretty remarkable as well (WRs and TEs are different) 84-952-4 94-1030-2 94-1002-9 Here are Gates' numbers. they are good, there's no question about it, but they aren't at the level of what Witten has achieved. Both play with a good set of receivers, so that is no excuse for either. And while Gates is the #1 target for his QB Witten plays with Miles Austin (a 1,000 yd WR) Dez Bryant and Roy Williams. Both TEs play with good QBs so there's no advantage by either there. Where Gates stands out is as a truly elite target in the redzone even though he missed 6 games last year. he had an average of 9 TDs over the last 3 year period. Here are his numbers: 60-704-8 79-1157-9 50-782-10 In the end, the production is good for both (both teams went to the playoffs twice in the last three years) but Witten was outstanding and gets the nod if you look INTO the numbers. I'd rate Witten a 96 and Gates a 92. tonybologna and R0M0mentum09 like this. Last edited by SIMstyle; 07-21-2011 at 10:14 PM.

07-21-2011, 09:33 PM	#5
Palo20 MVP OVR: 21 Join Date: Dec 2006	If I'm starting a team I'll take Gates and his unmatched playmaking ability. I'll sacrifice some blocking. RayLenearl likes this. __________________ Twitter: @Palo50 @PFF_Steve

07-21-2011, 09:37 PM	#6
mojo6911 Rookie OVR: 3 Join Date: Jun 2008	Re: Gates vs Witten They are two different types of players. No way Gates is a 99, but he is better than Witten. RayLenearl likes this.

07-21-2011, 09:40 PM	#7
rich7sena Rookie OVR: 2 Join Date: Jul 2010	Re: Gates vs Witten I'll always take the player who scores more touchdowns (by a large margin). I don't buy that Witten has better hands because Vernon Davis said so; Gates will go down as one of the best pass catching tight ends in NFL history. The only thing that Gates gives up to Witten is blocking.

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07-21-2011, 07:47 PM	#1
R0M0mentum09 Banned OVR: 0 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: From a Galaxy Far Far Away Blog Entries: 1	Gates vs Witten 1st ignore my avatar as I'm as unbiased as they come. The release of 99 overall ratings for Madden NFL 12 has recently sparked much debate. This is one that caught my eye. Who's the better overall TE? Witten had a slightly better statistical season than Gates (44 more catches though). It should also be noted that Gates missed 6-7 games (still put up noteworthy stats) and Jason Witten had Jon Kitna under center for over half the season (Impressive feats for both!) My assessment. . . Athleticism/Measurables: *Gates* by a land slide Hands: *Witten* 4th TE to ever reach 600 catches and did it at the fastest pace ever. Witten is the only current TE on pace to break Tony Gonzalez TE catch record. Vernon Davis was quoted "Jason Witten possesses the best hands of any WR/TE in the NFL". Route Running: *Witten* Gates can be a bit lazy here as his incredible athleticism allows him to be, Witten on the other hand lacks speed/burst and only gets open by running a crisp route. Blocking: *Witten* Witten is in someways hurt by his blocking ability, he gets limited targets in the redzone due to his teams use of him as a blocker (explains Wittens lack of TD's compared to other "receiving" TE's). Better Overall TE: *Witten* Madden OVR ratings: 98 OVR for both. Your thoughts?.

07-21-2011, 09:53 PM	#8
FlyEaglesFly3 Banned OVR: 1 Join Date: Sep 2010	Re: Gates vs Witten We already had this debate in the top 10 players discussion! Gates is better, only Cowboys fans support your statements lol. STOP TRYING TO GET YOUR 6-10 COWBOYS EVEN MORE OVER-RATED! leo4444 and RayLenearl like this.

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