Air Raid or Run and Shoot

[usaftacp121]

Looking for some info..... I understand the principles of both Ar and R&S... that being said i am struggling to find the differences in them in the game. I use the R&S and i know how it's "supposed" to work but if i wanted to apply the basics to a custom playbook, what do i need to know. I just do not want to end up making redundant custom playbooks, if i could of just used the AR instead. Sorry if this is confusing.

[Soarindude02]

Air Raid is pretty much All pass, with the occasional run. Run and Shoot has a much more running involved.

[JSHT21]

RnS is basically as Soarindude said an Air Raid with much much more running.

Plus, WR routes are options, they tend to change after the ball is snapped according to the coverage.. the game doesn't represent this well. Hopefully 12 will, as I want to add a few RnS formations to my playbook.

[Dr Death]

Well, despite the two comments above, neither the Air Raid or Run & Shoot run the ball very much. What you have to understand is this; I am basing the Air Raid off of what Mike Leach does w/ it and of course the R&S is what June Jones has done w/ it. As far as other Air Raid coaches, they may run more, but JJ at Hawaii hardly ever ran the ball. He's done more running at SMU because he's still recruiting talent and he's had two freshman {Bo Levi Mitchell and Kyle Padron} and one sophomore {Padron} at QB and the offense takes time to get down.

As far as in the game, neither the Air Raid or R&S are implemented correctly. The R&S in '11 has maybe six correct R&S plays, the Air Raid is about the same. I have numerous playbooks from Mouse Davis {R&S} - June Jones {R&S} and Mike Leach/Hal Mumme {Air Raid} and EA did not implement either offense correctly. Most of the pass plays in those offenses in the game have been in Madden and NCAA for years.

Last year EA said the Run & Shoot is "for those guys who want to throw the ball 50 or 60 times a game." Nothing could be more laughable. The R&S is designed so that the WR's and the QB read the defense and adjust their routes after the snap of the ball.

So, say the D is showing a Cover 3 pre-snap but then changes to Zone-Blitz at the snap, the WR's and QB have to read this and adjust their routes on the fly. When a team has it down, it's unstoppable.

The Air Raid is actually a combination of three different offenses. The BYU offense of the 1980's when they had all those QB's setting records, guys like Gifford Nielsen, Marc Wilson, Jim McMahon, Steve Young, Robbie Bosco, etc...

They also use aspects of the West Coast Offense as well as aspects of the Run & Shoot.

Who knows what NCAA 12 will bring, but hopefully EA implemented more of these offenses correctly. When they bragged about 25 New Plays, none were from either of these offenses, so my hopes are not high.

[Dvd1034]

I would say that if you wanted to run the Air Raid, EA has represented it very well. One of the new plays is a spin on an Air Raid staple called Ace 618 Y Stick. It is a good ball control concept that many HS, College and NFL teams use. I believe that the new version has the F Back motioning to his shoot route as the ball is snapped to put the flat player in a bind quicker. The Screen game in this offense is considered to be part of the run game. It gets the big men in the middle to running sideline to sideline and therefore affecting their pass rush. I don't really agree when people say all the Air Raid is is chunking the ball. Now it might not be a balanced 50/50. Balance is having the ability to run the ball when conditions are right for running and pass when conditions are right for passing. Here are the plays that were in '11 that I can think of off the top of my head from the Air Raid (Leach, Mumme, Franklin).


Quick Game
6- 4 Verticals - out of a doubles and trips look. (It would be nice if the IR's settled their route in the hole that opens up in a MOFO
(middle of the field open) look.

7,9 - Slants/Slant/flat combo

8- Y Corner

617/619 - Fade/out combo - I think it is called slot outs in the game.
617/619 Switch - Out of trips (#1 on a post, #2 on a corner, #3 flat route.)

618 - Y Stick - It is out of a doubles and trips look.

66- Hitches on the outside - I think it is just called Hitches.

90's

90 Shallow - This is definitely in there.

92 Mesh - Not exactly how Leach ran it, but it is very close. Horizontal stretch of the Hook/Curl Zones

94 Y Sail - A strong side vertical stretch concept.

95 Y Cross - Weak side vertical stretch concept.

96 All Curl - A Curl flat combo that is a horizontal stretch of the Safeties.

98 DBL Smash - Hitch/Corner route that vertically stretches the CB.

* I have yet to see 93- H Wheel in the game
Runs
30 base
34/35 zone is in
34/35 Lead is in

Screens
Jailbreak
Fast Rt./Lft.
RB Screen
Bubbles/Arcs

Not many plays, but that is a majority of the "Air Raid" offense. I'll have to go back and look at the names of the plays on the game if somebody needs them to match them with the terminology. Custom playbooks will allow me to cut and paste all these plays and put them in one playbook.

[Dr Death]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dvd1034

I would say that if you wanted to run the Air Raid, EA has represented it very well.

Here's one of the problems though... many of the pass plays that you mentioned were in previous EA games. Some of the newer things they added, like the WR Mid Screen and Bubble Screen, rarely work in the game as they do in real life. For example... IRL the Middle Screen is almost unstoppable, either against Man or Zone, because the WR's know how to block.

In '11, you run it against Man and it will be shut down 99% of the time. You run it against Zone, and the DE magically knows the play and stops his pass rush to leap up and knock the pass down. It took a lot of time and practice to know exactly when to use the Mid-Screen and how to use it in this game.

So a play that is a staple in the Air Raid... a play Mike Leach would run 10 times a game and sometimes more, I only use once or twice at most and I play 10 minute quarters.

The Bubble... dear God, where to begin? It's great against an all out blitz, but the WR running the Bubble is running way too slow and always takes about a half an hour to get to full speed, no matter how high his speed and acceleration are.

IRL, the Bubble screen is quick and burns defenses and again, Leach would use this play many times in a game. Probably between 5 and 8. I use it once a game if I'm lucky and that's as an audible.

Playing on Heisman, if you call either Middle Screen or Bubble Screen, from the huddle, the D comes out knowing it and destroys the play.

That isn't what I would call realistically implementing an offense. And that's just two examples.

Another staple of both the Air Raid and the Run & Shoot is the Shovel Pass, yet EA still does not have this simple play in its game. Why? Isn't their tag line: If it's in the game, it's in the game

NFL2K5 had the Shovel Pass and that was in 2004... it's now 2011 and still no Shovel Pass in any EA game. It is simply inexcusable.

[Dvd1034]

Touché salesman, the screen game isn't near where it should be. For me it gets the job done. I consider myself very savvy with the Air Raid and all components (at least the Leach Air Raid). But you are right about the tag line, I just don't know very much about programming and that type of thing to demand everything be perfect. I do see your point though.