The one major reason why Madden isn't real football (yet)

[Broncos86]

Every single person in this specific forum is a football fan. We love football, we love to follow it. Every year, we get excited at the start of the season. And there's one underlying reason: the questions of how your team will do this year! "How will the kid play? Will the defense improve? Let's see what the new FA signings can do." We all want to find out how this year's team is going to perform.

Now, with Madden, you might be a franchise guy, or an online guy, or something. But nobody ever says "I don't watch football on Sundays. I just read about the off season transactions." When Sunday rolls around, you watch football! When the rookie hits your team, in Madden, there is no question of what he can do. Look at his ratings. You know what he can do. Is the rookie better than the vet? Look at his ratings. There's no mystery, there's no wondering what the team can do.

EA hit the nail on the head when they thought of "any given Sunday." THAT is why we watch football. Because on any given Sunday, anything can happen. We want to see what the rookie QB can do, we want to see the new 3-4 defense in action. But in Madden, it's ratings. Will the rookie make the throw? Do some math and find out. I don't know about you, but math is boring.

I think the devs are on the right track in trying to simulate this "any given Sunday" idea. It's a step in the right direction. But really, so long as we can simply look at a list of ratings and compare players, that mystery isn't going to be there. I like what they're trying to get at with preseason, and hidden ratings. I like that. Traits help define players and give them more character. It helps extend a player beyond a list of values. Evaluating a team is very crucial to a franchise.

What's the answer? I'm not sure. I can't say "hide all the ratings" because boy would that be crazy. But I think if the devs want Madden to get closer to real football, then a philosophical change is needed in regards to how player performance is "calculated." This goes beyond RBP, oline/dline play, and animations. It's about the core value of football itself and why we watch football in the first place. Now don't take this the wrong way, I'm PUMPED for Madden 12. I loved Madden 11. I'm going to rock the franchise mode of M12 until my eyes are blood shot. Anybody who has talked with me on this forum knows I'm jazzed for M12. But you can't stand still, and nothing great comes from stagnation.

[shabazz916]

this is the dumbest thing ever!!!!!

football is math!!!

every play is a calculated risk!!

football is not any given sunday its about who comes to play and who gives half effort and there is no way to sim that so ratings are the best thing going

[Rocky]

I think you bring up some OUTSTANDING points. I like what you said about Franchise mode. Hiding ratings would lead to a new strategy in the game.

For instance, say your RB in the first round isn't performing to his potential. With ratings, there is no concrete way to tell if you misjudged him or if he just isn't playing well by just on the field. But there is a 3rd year guy, undrafted, who bounced around a little bit. You put him in and he is tearing it up. Do you go with the 1st rounder or do you ride the hot back? What if, under the hood, the undrafted RB is simply better than your first round guy?

That's exactly the situation the Chargers had last year. Mike Tolbert would've never gotten an opportunity to standout because you KNOW the 1st rounder is better and there are no questions about it.

[mestevo]

I think DPP and traits are a big step towards what you're describing. I'm confident there will never be a 'hide the ratings' but there can certainly be 'ratings aren't everything'.

Picture in a year or two what DPP and traits may look like. You could have a 95 and a 85 OVR WR, with similar speed. Now DPP will probably get them to swing back and forth as far as who is better per their stats, but what if the 85 also has a resistance towards the effects of a shutdown corner. The 95 OVR meanwhile has lower consistency so his stats vary more, and zero player traits to help him resist the things that opposing defenses bring to the table.

There would just need to be enough positives and negatives to go around trait-wise so that you can build the team you want, without being able to just build 'the perfect team'. Make it so that teams then have a personality, and you see further benefits in the form of chemistry and on the field play for players compatible with that personality.

Introduce DPP, traits, and even this clutch stuff to coaches (maybe call them tactics?). These abilities providing a positive and negative effect on the players on the field, and again if you're going against a coach who's in the zone and dialing up all the right plays, that 85 OVR WR might have a chance to look past the oppresive defense he's facing and make that catch to set the coaches gameplan back and remove the benefits his defense is getting.

I think there's got to be help too. I love franchise and superstar modes so much that I play them in games that I don't even fully udnerstand. I end up looking up the difference between a guard and a small forward everytime I pick up my controller to play 2k11 it seems. There has to be some handholding (as an option) like 'Opposing coach is operating under an dominant defense, break a run or catch a pass of at least 20 yards to shake the effects - Press Y for more information' during the play call screen. A help screen can then explain the system, and what you're currently under. The more I think about this, the more it sounds like im describing a Madden table top card game or something.

I think 'any given sunday' is certainly about here in Madden, and I'm glad we seem to be as close as we are to it, and yet there's so much more that could go into the new things introduced this year.

Football is a game of chess, but every game is the context for how the pieces perform.

[TMJOHNS18]

Quote: Originally Posted by shabazz916

this is the dumbest thing ever!!!!! football is math!!! every play is a calculated risk!! football is not any given sunday its about who comes to play and who gives half effort and there is no way to sim that so ratings are the best thing going

So what happens when both teams come to play? A Tie? I guess before games reporters should ask the players if they are coming to play or mailing it in, that way I won't have to watch the games.

I'm with you 100% OP, I really wish there was a less cut and dry way of determining who should start and who should not. The only time a player of lower stance plays better it seems then his starter is only if they have higher ratings in one of the couple of only ratings that matter (speed for example), but that's the games fault.

The only time I've really ever used players based on their performance and not their ratings is when I'm rebuilding teams (starting from scratch mostly). But that's mainly due to having teams with players in the 60's and 70's who ratings are so uneven that you can actually have a 65 be better then a guy who's 78 with high ratings in areas that don't matter.

[Broncos86]

Exactly! Why should I play Tim Tebow over Kyle Orton if Orton is going to be the better-rated QB? Will he grow during the season? Will his up-side come through? Is he going to progress during the season?

Outside of Tebow's stats and my own personal taste for one QB over another in the NFL, ratings are all that matter. Maybe this year I can simulate myself and edit Tebow's stats as the year goes along. I can pretend that there's an up-side that exists. Perhaps DPP will simulate that, and one game I'll get a pretty rockin' Tebow, the next game Tebow will remind me why he's a rookie. But I think if players can become more organic, it'd help Madden move closer to its real-life counterpart.

I'm really liking what traits and DPP are bringing, it's what got me thinking more about this to begin with. I've always looked at Madden players, in the past, as nothing more than robots with names taped on them. Imagine this robot that has his attributes dialed to a certain degree, then someone slaps some duct tape on his back and writes "Manning" on it. Traits, roles, and DPP are a major step away from that.

[LaW97]

Quote: Originally Posted by Broncos86

Exactly! Why should I play Tim Tebow over Kyle Orton if Orton is going to be the better-rated QB? Will he grow during the season? Will his up-side come through? Is he going to progress during the season? Outside of Tebow's stats and my own personal taste for one QB over another in the NFL, ratings are all that matter. Maybe this year I can simulate myself and edit Tebow's stats as the year goes along. I can pretend that there's an up-side that exists. Perhaps DPP will simulate that, and one game I'll get a pretty rockin' Tebow, the next game Tebow will remind me why he's a rookie. But I think if players can become more organic, it'd help Madden move closer to its real-life counterpart. I'm really liking what traits and DPP are bringing, it's what got me thinking more about this to begin with. I've always looked at Madden players, in the past, as nothing more than robots with names taped on them. Imagine this robot that has his attributes dialed to a certain degree, then someone slaps some duct tape on his back and writes "Manning" on it. Traits, roles, and DPP are a major step away from that.

agree wholeheartedly

there is no reason to start one guy over the other IF YOU ARE PLAYING the game other than whatever reason you made up in your head.
the same way there is no reason to pick different plays because you can take 3-6 plays and win every game.
the way picking Return Middle 2 and Return Left 2 will get you a kickoff return for a TD about 40% of the time.

[43M]

I like the direction the game is heading in alot in terms of progressing players and managing rosters, but I do agree some changes need to be made.

In terms of ratings, mainly what I want to see (probably wont until next gen) is position specific ratings only. I dont give a fudge about my NTs arm strength or my QBs pass blocking.

I cant say its a good idea to completely do away with the ratings system, but yes, some changes need to be made to make it feel more authentic.

Aside from several gameplay issues that will likely not be fixed until AT LEAST next gen, I would say the one major thing holding Madden back is its lack of immersion. I love where franchise mode is going this year and I love the new in game overlays and stuff, but until announcing is DRASTICALLY improved, there is a good half time and postgame show added, and then better draft presentation...I think the game will always feel somewhat incomplete.

IMO, overall presentation should be one of the major focuses for Madden 13. Add that to some other franchise improvements, and that would put Madden about where it should be....at least realistically.