It's not just zone defense.

[canes21]

I posted this over on the NCAA boards, but I'm pretty sure we can all agree the same should be said about Madden. There will be a few things wrong with this here since it was originally from the NCAA boards, but you should have no trouble following.

WARNING: Very long post.

I'm glad they finally improved zone defense because it got old running man defenses nearly every play for the past 2 years. I almost forgot how zone defenses worked(not really). It looks like passing will be more difficult and reading defenses will play a bigger role, but the passing game still needs a lot of work to get to the level it should be 6 years into this generation.

1) Pass Blocking: The pocket actually looks pretty good in the video, but I still don't see any double teaming. I saw some players standing near othe blockers and more than likely the defender would have to go through them too once they beat the first man, but thats not how blocking works. If the defense only sends 3 defenders against 5 blockers, I want the offensive guys to double team someone, especially if that someone is a Suh or Fairley type, or Strahan, etc.

2) Pass Velocity and Trajectory: One of the biggest faults in the passing game is the velocity and trajectories. Brett Favre was clocked at around 70 MPH on one of his hardest throws, but your average NCAA QB in EA's game is usually clocked at 120 MPH. Passes travel way too fast in the game.

Also, passes take terrible paths. A bullet pass stays flat all the way to the receiver and the lob pass touches the moon and then comes back to the receiver. Bullet passes need to be higher while lob passes need to be lower, and there also needs to be touch passes. Let us be able to drop it over the LB, but in front of the safety. The current bullet pass should be what we get if we were to pass a bullet and call for it to be low, but the normal one should take more of an arch to the receiver and get 9-10 feet off the ground, not 6-7 feet.

3) Man Coverage: Man coverage has worked better than zone up to this point, but that doesn't mean it actually works like it should. As is, DBs actually can backpedal as fast a WRs and they also cut before WRs which is absolutely ridiculous, but they not only cut before the WR, they do it so much faster and cleaner. DB play needs to be done a lot more realistically. No more mirroring. It is annoying to see a WR twitch mid route and have the DB do it as well. No DB is going to move when a WR twitches and he is definitely not going to do it simultaneously.

DBs need to backpedal slower and react to a WRs cut. When they see the WR make a move, they need to break down, plant their feet as well, and then cut to stay up to speed with the WR. This would make outs, hitches, comebacks, curls, etc. all work like they should instead of having the DB cut towards the sideline on an out before the WR even slows down to. If you lower DB coverage sliders to around 35 in NCAA 11, you'll see more realistic man coverage, but there will still be some minor mirroring and zone coverage will be a wreck, but at least you get realistic man coverage.

4) Route Bases Passing: QBs in real life throw to where a WR will be. On an out the QB drops back, has that back foot plant, then throws the ball to where the WR will make his cut towards the sideline, whip his head around, and see the ball almost there. If you try to throw before a WR makes his cut right now, 9 out of 10 times you are going to see the QB throw it like it is a go route. This is not how passing should be. The only time a WR should break from his route and run the go is when he beats the one on one coverage and sees there is no help over the top, other than that they need to run their routes correctly and maybe slow and sit in a zone if possible.

Also, if I throw the pass like its a go and the WR is running an out, he should not magically know the ball is thrown wrong. He should make his cut, whip his ahead around, and see the ball being picked of easily. RBP would make the passing game so much more realistic and balance out the gameplay. It would make all routes in game runnable and open up a lot more plays in the play book. On a fade route, I should be able to hike the ball, step back and launch it to where either the WR is going to get to it or it is overthrown out of bounds or too far from anyone to get to. In Madden and NCAA, you have to drop back and wait for the WR to make his cut for the corner of the endzone or sidelines. By then its stupid to even think about throwing the route.

5) WRs Playing Aggressive: When a WR sees he has no chance at catching the pass, he needs to become the defender. He needs to try and swat it, or hit the DB and force an incompletion instead of an interception. A lot of times I see a play where my WR doesn't even try to stop the ball from being picked off. They just stand there and become spectators when they could have easily broken the play up.

Also, why can't my WR jump for a ball. Nice, we have a dive button, but we need to have a jump button, or WRs need to jump on their own. Maybe a WR with 95 awareness will know when to jump almost all the time, but a WR with 45 awareness will play like WRs do now. They'll do some stupid animation that makes no attempt at catching the ball before the DB. WRs need to jump for the passes instead of letting them sail 5 inches over their heads for an interception.

6) QB Ratings Mattering More: Right now the only ratings that matter are Speed, Acceleration, and Throw Accuracy. If you like to throw it deep, then Throw Power too. Nothing else matters.

First of all, we should have the ratings Madden has: short, medium, and long accuracy, throwing power, and play action. On top of those we need read coverage, throw velocity, release, leadership(all players), confidence(also all players). Some QBs can sling the ball 70 yards down field, but can not throw it very fast. That should be represented in the game with 95 Throw Power and 75 Throw Velocity. Some guys don't have the best arms in the league, but can read defenses so well they are still successful. That could be 75 Throw Power and and Velocity, but 80 Accuracy and 90 Read Defense.

Quarterbacks are filled with variety and that needs to be represented. With more ratings that work like I have mentioned, we would be able to see QBs like Vick, Manning, Brees, Brady, Rothelisberger, McNabb, Sanchez, McElroy, Mallet, etc. Right now every QB is a pocket passer regardless of their ratings. Quarterbacks also need tendencies, some guys run more, obviously, others tend to wait until the last second in the pocket and try to let someone get open before they think of using their feet.

These ratings also need to matter more for the user as well. Maybe a QB with high awareness can tell when the pocket is falling apart, so when using him, the controller will vibrate heavily and earlier, but a guy with 65 awareness,(or a separate Pocket Presence rating overall) would have a light vibration that also doesn't turn on until it is almost too late to do anything. Then a guy with an absolute terrible rating would not even vibrate.

Other ways to have these ratings impact users could be by simply bring back vision cone, but thats debatable. I am for it, but I know others are not. One way to represent a QB who sees the field better than most is to have the game make a WR's icon glow enough to get your attention when they get open so you can quickly press that button and get it to him before it is too late. To expand on that, some QBs who aren't the best at seeing the field may have the WR glow when they aren't open, so just pressing it blindly could end up actually hurting you. Other QBs could have it glow brighter when completely wide open and have it dimmer when its still a bit risky of a pass

Simply adding little features like that would go a long way in making ratings matter more. It would make recruiting a QB with more than an arm and legs worth it. Getting that pocket passer with A Pocket Presence, B+ Read Coverage, A- Accuracy, but C- Throw Power and Velocity would be a better choice for a pro style team than the QB with B Acceleration, B+ Speed, C- Read Coverage, D+ Pocket Presence, C+ Accuracy, but A Power and Velocity. The second QB may be better for a team who uses their QBs as dual threats, but someone like me who wants the QB to remain in the pocket almost always would want the first guy. But the way the game is now, I would go with the second guy just because he is faster and has average accuracy, but can chuck the ball from goal line to goal line.

In my perfect passing game that first QB could make the passing game easier because the controller would vibrate when there was any chance of the pocket falling apart, my WRs would only light up when open, would be very bright so I would never miss them, and he would have great accuracy. But that second QB would still have a chance to put up the stats I want and run my pro style, but I would have to work three times as hard because I would have to manually watch the pocket, but still look up field because that QB would more often than not have WRs not open light up because he couldn't read defenses all to well. He would be more athletic, but my pro style offense wants more brains, not athleticism.

If EA was somehow able to get all of this into their passing game, then the game would reach an entirely new level. The passing game would be the most realistic to date. I hate to say it, but 2k football had all of these and that is why I love passing in that game. I am a big running guy who loves stacking RBs and pounding the ball, but sometimes in APF 2k8 I make air raid teams because they did the passing game so well.

If EA was able to have this all incorporated into the passing game, then I think we could all agree it would be the best passing game in a game ever.

[Only1LT]

Long post? Yeah, that's more of a blog lol.

Good points though and I agree with most of it. I will have to go into detaill later, because I have to jump off (get your minds out of the gutter people lol).

Onve again though, good blo... I mean post lol.

[johnnyg713]

Great post. But idk what they can do to address these problems for this years game which is pretty unfortunate. I remember coverage and WR/DB interaction being on the top of almost everyones wish list for madden 12. I thought we would see this being vastly improved this year for sure but it looks like we'r all coming to the conclusion that this is what we'r going to be getting out of this gen's gameplay engine.

[roadman]

Yeah, Canes I saw this over on the NCAA side too.

I agree with most of this, but the time to post this is in September when the new game comes out in the wishlist forum. This is when they start to formulate ideas for the new game.

My .02

Keep this and paste in September for Madden and maybe August for NCAA in the wishlist forums.

[ch46647]

Excellent post! I agree with all of it...

[canes21]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

Yeah, Canes I saw this over on the NCAA side too. I agree with most of this, but the time to post this is in September when the new game comes out in the wishlist forum. This is when they start to formulate ideas for the new game. My .02 Keep this and paste in September for Madden and maybe August for NCAA in the wishlist forums.

Thanks for the suggestion. I definitely will repost it come those months.

[Kahuma]

Quote: Originally Posted by canes21

Also, why can't my WR jump for a ball. Nice, we have a dive button, but we need to have a jump button, or WRs need to jump on their own. Maybe a WR with 95 awareness will know when to jump almost all the time, but a WR with 45 awareness will play like WRs do now. They'll do some stupid animation that makes no attempt at catching the ball before the DB. WRs need to jump for the passes instead of letting them sail 5 inches over their heads for an interception.

You can jump for the ball, hold down on the left analog stick and hit Y/Triangle when you get near the ball. Too early and you'll cut back but if you time it right you'll jump for the ball.

[canes21]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kahuma

You can jump for the ball, hold down on the left analog stick and hit Y/Triangle when you get near the ball. Too early and you'll cut back but if you time it right you'll jump for the ball.

Isn't that the rocket catch? And we shouldn't have to do that to jump for the ball. A good receiver knows when to jump for the pass. Actually, most receivers know when they should jump for the pass.