The 3-4

[JimK]

The biggest issue I have with this game, other than the freezes, is the fact that the game only half-heartedly offers the option of the 3-4 defense. Here are the problems and suggested solutions:

1. Just as you can see players through the lens of your system with the philosophy rating, you should be able to see all "tweener" type players' position based on your system. This would help the player a lot, but it would help the AI even more. Here's what I mean. In the draft, a certain player may be listed as a DT to a 4-3 team, but he would be listed as a DE to a 3-4 team. It would just depend on his skillset. Whichever of the two positions he has the highest rating in for that system would be the position he would be classified as to that team. So a giant run stopper would be a DT to both, but a smaller DT might be seen as a DE to a 3-4 team. Same thing with DE/OLB. This would allow you to actually be able to scout for the 3-4 in the draft, and it would especially help the AI draft and play players in their proper positions. There should also be a page where you can see all in one place what your player's ratings are for every position and for every philosophy.

2. That leads into problem 2 because the solution to problem 1 would still be useless if we don't fix this one. All DE automatically have 10 coverage skills. There needs to be a system where if you scout a DE to be athletic and fluid enough to play OLB, you can get his coverage skills up. It would all be part of a more in-depth system I was referring to in number 1. It's ridiculous that I'm running a 3-4, but I can't draft any college DE for my OLB spots. No matter how athletic they are, the mere fact that they played DE in college dooms them to a life of 10 coverage skills. Not realistic. I envision a whole revamped system where a guy drafted as a tweener might start as 10 coverage skills, but upon conversion his potential would be generated based on his athletic ability with perhaps a random element to it as well.

3. The 3rd problem currently with the 3-4 is with playbooks, specifically sub defenses. I just noticed this with my Lebeau 3-4 playbook. My nickel package takes out my LOLB for the extra CB. Not only leaves my run stuffer NT in game, but brings another one in to be my two DT. Then it puts my 5 technique DE as the outside rushers, and puts my best pass rusher, my ROLB as an ILB along with my top ILB (don't forget it took my second best pass rusher out of the game completely). I mean, come on. How lazy is this? This is a specific 3-4 playbook and you did the substitutions for the nickel just like a 4-3. Just copy and paste. Obviously my nickel package should be: take out the run stuffer for the CB. Put my DE as the DT. Put my OLB as the DE. And leave my ILB as the ILB. The best solution to this problem is that you should have a depth chart for every formation. For people that don't care, you can have a button that just copies your choices from one formation into all of them or lets the CPU do them.

[scorp]

You can edit the playbook to keep the players in that you want. just sub out the players you don't want with the ones you want.

I use 3-4 all the time, I do draft DT's and move them to end, and some large LB's can also be good pass rushing ends for the 3-4. But yeah sucks that college DE can be a good rush/run support LB but that's it.

I wish that the game would take your defense into account, it assumes 4-3 and that 2 DT are starters and one ILB is a starter. Sucks when your #2 starting ILB is unhappy about not starting, and you backup DT is in the probowl voting and makes it in. LOL

[JimK]

Quote: Originally Posted by scorp

You can edit the playbook to keep the players in that you want. just sub out the players you don't want with the ones you want. I use 3-4 all the time, I do draft DT's and move them to end, and some large LB's can also be good pass rushing ends for the 3-4. But yeah sucks that college DE can be a good rush/run support LB but that's it. I wish that the game would take your defense into account, it assumes 4-3 and that 2 DT are starters and one ILB is a starter. Sucks when your #2 starting ILB is unhappy about not starting, and you backup DT is in the probowl voting and makes it in. LOL

No offense my friend, but I think you may have missed my points a little bit. I know I can painstakingly recreate every nickel play in my playbook with the right personnel, but that's far from an ideal solution. And further, the AI can't do this.

And I know I can draft DT and move them to DE. But two points are important here. For one, I can't scout these players properly because they are listed as DT and are therefore rated according to my DT prefs, not my DE prefs. I suppose I could find some awkward way to work with it, like changing my DT pref to penetrator for a draft in which I'm looking for DE, assuming that would be sort of like a 3-4 DE. But again, it's far from an ideal solution. What's more, it doesn't help the AI at all, who is really at a disadvantage with the 3-4 right now because it's not fully integrated into the game.

[JimK]

There are also some game play issues with the 3-4 defense. At least in some versions of it, such as that employed by the New England Patriots, depend on giant DLs commanding double teams in the running game and being able to cover two gaps, thus freeing up the ILBs to make the tackles. This simply doesn't exist in the game. Every player either wins a one on one battle or losses it; there are no double teams. So you wonder, if my LB is going to have to take on a G, I might as well just have another DT instead since he can take on a G one on one much better.

Just lots of issues with the 3-4. You can still have the concept of a more athletic, versatile defense, but for the most part the 3-4 is very problematic in the game.

[damonb10]

JimK, you raise some good points as far as scouting goes. One way to help you with the substitution of the right players is that you can do a quick sub on the playcall screen. This quick sub will hold all the way through the game for that play and sometimes I've seen it carry through multiple plays of that formation. I don't run a 3-4, but do make some quick subs for nickel and dime to get better pass rushers on the field.

[scorp]

Believe me I understand it's a pain, the game assumes 4-3 and the logic (AI) follows that. you MLB can beat the guard do to another flaw in the game, a blitzing LB can split the guard tackle main on the left side of the OL repeatedly. Your LB can camp out in the backfield, but that ruins the game.

Yes the game is flawed, but all in all one of the best football games I ever played, and majority of the issues stem from the old Madden engine the game used.

[JimK]

Yep, best sports game I've played. I love it. I wish more people were like us so they could keep making new versions.

[Pass_The_Cows]

Quote: Originally Posted by JimK

Yep, best sports game I've played. I love it. I wish more people were like us so they could keep making new versions.

Seriously. Every single person that has seen me play has concluded that the game sucks. I honestly have not met or heard of a single person outside this tiny board that like this game.