How the depth chart SHOULD work...

[Pogo27]

Why are we only allowed to specify which player we want to the left or the right when it comes to the offensive line, defensive ends, and outside linebackers? That's not very realistic, not in the slightest.

Most teams don't call players "Wide receivers." They're called Flanker, Split End, and Receiver.

The split end is the receiver closest to the sideline and on the line of scrimmage. The flanker is on the opposite side of the ball, with the tight end, and he is the closest player to the side line and off the line of scrimmage. The slot receiver goes between the receiver and line and is off the line of scrimmage. This is the typical formation anyway. Obviously there are some variants where there may be a "strong slot" with the slot receiver on the same side of the field as the flanker with the slot man on the line of scrimmage and the flanker off (which is part of the flanker description).

And it's not just about the proper names for these positions. You actually do need different guys in this positions. The split end is on the line. He needs to be the stronger of your two primary receivers as he is more easily jammed by the cornerbacks, being on the line of scrimmage. Meanwhile, the flanker is often times the primary receiver because the yard or two he stands off the line of scrimmage allows him the space to beat the corner without getting jammed.

And perhaps the biggest reason I'm complaining about the depth chart? (At least, from an offensive point of view.) Slot receiver. Think about the New England Patriots. Wes Welker is their slot receiver. When Randy Moss gets hurt and the Patriots send a new receiver in, do you think they move Welker to the split end position and move the new receiver to the slot? Nope. They keep Welker in the slot.

It's almost like the difference between a corner and safety. Sure, corners can generally play safety and safeties can generally play corner. But ultimately, you want a corner playing corner and a safety playing safety.

I want to set my depth chart to ensure that guys I want playing the slot are playing the slot and guys I want playing flanker are playing flanker, and split end, etc. etc. This means that if I pick I-Form regular or whatever, the I-Form set with the tight-end, and receivers on either side of the ball. My flanker lines up off the line of scrimmage on the side with the TE and my split end lines up on the opposite side. If I flip the play on the play call screen, the RECEIVERS should flip sides... you shouldn't line up the guy who was a flanker last play as a split end this play. (Now, if I audible flip play at the line of scrimmage, then keep it as normal and let the flanker step up, split end step back, etc.)


But wait, there's more!

Third down back? Give me a depth chart position for third down back, but allow me to keep the starting halfback as the third down back if I want...but at least give me the option to put a 3rd down back on the depth chart. Madden does it. It's completely realistic to the college game too. And it's a great way to fulfill a playing time promise to a halfback without giving him the primary duties (since a player has to be #1 on depth chart to fulfill playing time promise).



Defense. Oh defense...

If I pick a 4-2-5 defense, why do I have a depth chart slot for LOLB, MLB, and ROLB? The formation only has 2 linebackers...and I don't know which two it uses. Meanwhile, while I have three different slots to assign TWO linebackers to, I have one slot two assign two defensive tackles, and three slots to assign five defensive backs.

My defensive depth chart should certainly adjust to my defensive playbook. If I run a 4-3, I should have two different spots to set my defensive tackles to. I should have two different spots to set my two corners to.
If I run a 3-4, I should have two different spots to set my middle linebackers to and two different spots to set my two corners to.
In these two cases, it's actually fairly easy to figure out who will and who will not be on the field. But when it comes to fulfilling playing time promises, even when you run a 4-3, the second DT is a starter...but doesn't see himself as a starter (because he's second on the depth chart), and therefore you'll fail the promise on playing time.

How about the 4-2-5? Okay, yeah, again, it's pretty easy to know which two DTs will make the field out of the one depth chart slot I have for this position...though again, still should be two slots. But how about linebackers? I should have a left and right linebacker slot (or strong and weak, sam and will, or whatever). Moreover... who in the world fills the 5th defensive back spot? Is it the 3rd corner? The 2nd free safety? The 2nd strong safety?

There needs to be a nickelback slot on the depth chart. Maybe I want a fast linebacker there because I'm going to blitz with him a lot. Maybe I want a true corner there because I'm playing a team that passes a lot. Maybe I want a safety there because sometimes I want him in the box, but sometimes he's in coverage. Regardless, perhaps the biggest problem is if it is the 3rd corner...and I put a LB there, and now one of my top 2 corners gets hurt... now my LB is playing as a primary corner and a corner has moved up to the nickelback spot, which clearly isn't optimal.

The same all goes for 3-3-5 stack, except that at least here, I have the correct number of depth chart slots for my front 6.


How about 4-1-6 and 3-2-6? I know you can't use these as default formations, but... you can run them. Who comes on as the dimeback? I need that depth chart slot too.


And perhaps the last depth chart slot that is missing? Holder. I think the default is the back-up quarterback. Which is fine. And I guess I can maybe adjust this via formation subs...but it'd still be nice to be able to just adjust this via the depth chart without using one of my formation subs on it, if I so choose.

And along the same lines, the wildcat back...I know I can use formation subs to set this formation however I want (and this is where I am usually spending 5 or 6 of my formation subs), but I should be able to set on the depth chart which player on the team is the default wildcat--particularly because of the extraordinarily unique skill set required to play this position.

[Dr Death]

I understand your frustrations and I agree. To take it a bit further, as someone who runs 5-Wide a lot I need a depth chart that holds more than 6 WR's on it. Because in my game, when a couple of WR's get too tired or one is tired and one gets hurt, a CB comes in as a WR.

Really? I carry 11 or more WR's on my team but can only list 6 on the depth chart.

[dan_457]

There's are two possible reasons why they don't do this, one, It would confuse the hell out of the casual fan, which is their primary sales target. Having that much depth involved with the depth chart would be an intimidating thing for someone with limited football knowledge. But of course, they could probably just devise a way to have an "advanced" option when it comes to the depth chart, or people could just do auto-order. Which leads me to the other option as to why not. Their depth chart logic now is terrible, i can only imagine how bad it'd look if they actually tried to implicate a more complex depth chart.

[Stack]

The 4-2-5 uses the MLB & LOLB on the depth chart + your 1 & 2 SS

[Pogo27]

Quote: Originally Posted by Stack

The 4-2-5 uses the MLB & LOLB on the depth chart + your 1 & 2 SS

While that's helpful, and easy enough to eventually figure out, it doesn't change the fact that different defensive base formations should have different depth charts.

As stated, Madden has the depth chart setting for 3rd down back, so that's an easy enough add without confusing anyone.

Flanker, Split End, and Slot aren't that much more confusing than Left Tackle, Left Guard, Center, Right Guard, and Right Tackle.

Moreover, is the casual fan even paying that much attention to the depth chart?

And ask yourself... where did YOU get most of your knowledge of what positions are what? Personally, for me, I learned a lot of it from playing NCAA and/or Madden (or NFL Gameday). I was playing football video games in the 90s and I only played actual football for one year in the late 90s. My base knowledge of football position comes from a combination of playing dynasty/franchise game modes and watching football on TV.

It may be confusing to some casual fans in the first year they implement it (or they could just put a video in the game explaining it)...but it's not so confusing that someone couldn't figure it out.

Just list the position as Split End Receiver and Flanker Receiver and Slot Receiver. Or Primary, Secondary, and Slot receiver.


And yes, I definitely agree that the depth chart should go deeper for WR for the 4 and 5 wide formations. But...if you split up the WR roles... 3 or 4 deep is enough for each of SE, FL, and SL receivers, and then just have a 4th that's called simply Wide Receiver and that depth chart goes position goes six deep and this is where the 4th and 5th WRs are pulled from in 4 and 5-wide formations.

[dan_457]

A lot of casual fans could pick it up, and a lot couldn't, or they don't have the time to mess with it. Things like that can scare away customers, the more complex a game, the steeper the learning curve, it's a payoff for a more rewarding game, but a lot people don't have the time or patience for it. I've played flight simulators for years, and they are incredibly intimidating at first, because of all the things you have to learn and the technique required, they aren't main stream games, and never will be more than a niche genre, because they require a lot time and patience to learn and to be good at. I know it's no where near the same as a more complex depth chart, but all i'm saying is that more complex = great for the hardcore and annoyance for the casual.

[Stack]

Don't get me wrong, the depth charts should change with the different base defenses. I would like to see strong/weak side linebackers instead of left/right, nickle/dime corner instead of just a single cb depth, 3rd down back, slot receiver, etc...

[frankrizzo380]

this is a beautiful post, props to the op for the detailed breakdown esp the defense depth issues because its time to update this part of the game asap, it would be a nice "feature" GREAT post OP