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Flyermania · 09-30-2009, 12:15 PM

Thought I would throw this out there as I am really struggling with it as of late. No matter what slider set or difficulty I use, the CPU just does not shoot enough. I am experimenting with sliders on Superstar and for the life of me cannot get the CPU to consistently get realistic shot totals. I have experimented with aggression, shot accuracy, AI Learning, etc. but no consistent fix.

I am beginning to think it is something to do with the AI itself. Here are two common issues I see each and every game:

1) The CPU will back things up and sit in the neutral zone if you cut of the boards. They will pass or circle back until they see an opening along the boards to enter, or eventually will dump the puck in to enter the zone. This runs time off the clock and subsequently reduces their potential for more shots.

2) If I cut the CPU off along the faceoff circles, they will pass the puck repeatedly back to the blueline. Over and over...rinse and repeat. Their offense is very one dimensional in that if you cut off the faceoff circles defensively they just don't know what to do. This leads to the manic passing they do along the boards to the blueline.

For that matter, my teammate AI isn't that bright either....seems that isn't much better (or is it worse?) in NHL 10. Dumping the puck can be a wasted effort as my teammates don't rush into the zone. Screening the goalie can be effective, but getting the CPU controlled players to do that can be a real chore.

Last night I played on Superstar and beat the Flames 3-2 using 13 minute periods. Seems like a good game right? Well, not so much. I outshot the CPU 50-19. Not a typo. The CPU offense was pathetic, and to top it all off they kept hacking at me post-whistle and putting me on the PP. Very unrealistic as they were trailing and in the 3rd period. Why take penalties to put themselves on the PK when they are losing? It got to the point that I tried to skate away from them post-whistle just so I wouldn't go on the PP. As cool of a concept as the post-whistle stuff is, it is very poorly done.

The fact that my games are still close despite the low CPU shot totals is another issue.

And for that matter, I still don't see a noticeable separation of player abilities depsite have the attribute slider maxed. Sure, Ovechkin and Crosby stand out --- but I can still work wonders in the offensive sone with Riley Cote.

Hopefully some of this can be patched or addressed in a tuning version update or something.

Sorry for the rant...anyone else frustrated?

baa7 · 09-30-2009, 12:32 PM

I know this is a useless comment given I play on Pro, but the gameplay on the lower difficulty levels is tougher this year. Primarily because CPU checking is much more aggressive.

Steven547 · 09-30-2009, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baa7


	I know this is a useless comment given I play on Pro, but the gameplay on the lower difficulty levels is tougher this year. Primarily because CPU checking is much more aggressive.

No comment is useless if it helps everyone get better results!

Hey Flyer.

I've had the same issue. Seems like the CPU passes WAY too much this year instead of shooting. Numerous breakaways by the CPU turn into point passes...no idea why.

However, since I've "upped" the gamespeed slider to MAX (again, I don't see ANY difference in game speed)...and using your All Star sliders....and downloading MATTG's rosters, the past couple games have been 25+ shots by the CPU. And I was outshot by about 12 shots the other game.

Is it a slider issue? Maybe. Maybe increase CPU Puck Control and definitely Shot Accuracy (because they do shoot, but miss the net which does not count as a shot.)

Another thing, if you have PS3....get MATTG's rosters. Since I've downloaded them, I've noticed a better gameplay experience by the CPU and they seem to be shooting more. The past 2 games, the CPU has taken a total of 60+ shots against me. One game the CPU was SJ, and the other they were Atlanta. My thoughts on this? Well, I'm now leaning more towards it being a player attribute issue more then a slider issue. Could be the OFF awr attribute? But like I said, since downloading these rosters, I've seen better gameplay. Anyway, just my thoughts.

speels · 09-30-2009, 12:51 PM

I played a game last night that was one of the oddest I have played.

I play on Allstar with mostly FM sliders with a few tweaks and I think matt's 2.0 rosters.

I was NYI against Florida at 12 minute periods

Anyway, shot were 36-35 in my favor, but I lost 6-3.
There were 26 powerplays, 14 for me and 12 for the CPU.
I scored on 2 and they scored on 3.
My TOP was 9 min to their 6 min.
I was down 4-0 after 10 min, but clawed my way back tp 4-2 before giving up a brutal giveaway and trailing 5-2. Ithen scored a quick goal with 3 minutes left and then gave up the empty netter.
It was a great game, and most of the penalties were during game play, not after the whistle. Usually if I got one after the whistle it was coincidental minors.
I saw a 5 min major and 2 double minors for high sticking.
It was like neither team had read about the new rules of hockey and the refs had zero torlerance. haha

I do notice the CPU hanging out a lot in the neutral zone, but this game it didn't seem to have too much bearing on the shot totals.

18 eighty 5 · 09-30-2009, 01:04 PM

I have had this problem every game I have played offline so far too.

I even tried Dorismays sliders which are for pro level. I play on All Star but thought I would give it a go. Unfortunately I had the same problem.

I was Washington against Colorado and I kept the Avs to 3 shots up to the 2nd intermission but they had annoyingly scored on 2 of them!!! I had a huge second period and led 5-2 at the end of it but my shot totals were up at about 25-30. I won the game 6-2 and out shot the cpu about 47 - 8 on 10 min periods.

I just can't find the balance between realistic cpu shot totals either. The fact that they score on the low totals is also a nuisance.

I tried your sliders Flyermania and I found again that the cpu would hit long flat periods where they just didn't register a shot. Its almost as if the cpu is trying to allow for boardplay so they don't shoot but hang on to the puck along the boards too long. Also I notice that the cpu still loves to look for the cross crease goal almost to the exclusion of other options.

Gameplay wise there is lots to like from both yours and Dorismays sliders...its just the cpu shot totals have never been right. Every game even if I lose I out shoot my opponents by about 20 or more shots.

kerosene31 · 09-30-2009, 01:45 PM

I'm having pretty much the exact opposite experience. The defensive AI is the biggest problem this year. I'm finding CPU players making weird "pickups" when covering. Last year they were far from perfect, but at least predictable in what they would and wouldn't do.

It might only happen a few times a period, but it is more than enough for the CPU to generate offense against me. My CPU d-man makes a bad read and suddenly 2-3 guys are in front of the net looking for the prefect one timer pass. If I don't spot it in time and switch control, I'm toast.

The back and forth passing thing is annoying though. This stems from players in the offensive zone not moving around. Everyone gets covered and the CPU has no other options than the point.

Ruffy · 09-30-2009, 02:54 PM

I don't play offline as of yet but I have dabled in a few play nows and see what you mean Flyer.

My biggest hope for tuning is your teamates AI. Especially when you are on the PP. I find online that giving up quality chances to the SH team is often a result of your teamate AI not supporting the puck carrier in any way. This was a problem in 09 as well but so far I often fear a PP to an online opponent as any mistake in the offensive zone or in the defensive zone on a breakout and bam...breakway or big scoring chance the other way.

I'm sure they can tweak it soo the wingers and other d-man supports the puck carrier to give him some outlets to get rid of the puck on a breakout.

An another note i'd love the check along the boards to result in a loss of puck. The majority of the time when you get hit on the boards you can just keep going on by like nothing happened. Whereas in real life that would be the minority not the majority....id also love to see atune where you lose the puck sharp stops in an attempt to shake a defender. High puck control/puck carriers not included in this.

Flyermania · 09-30-2009, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven547


	I've had the same issue. Seems like the CPU passes WAY too much this year instead of shooting. Numerous breakaways by the CPU turn into point passes...no idea why. However, since I've "upped" the gamespeed slider to MAX (again, I don't see ANY difference in game speed)...and using your All Star sliders....and downloading MATTG's rosters, the past couple games have been 25+ shots by the CPU. And I was outshot by about 12 shots the other game. Is it a slider issue? Maybe. Maybe increase CPU Puck Control and definitely Shot Accuracy (because they do shoot, but miss the net which does not count as a shot.)

Glad it's not just me.

I will try the gamespeed slider tonight and see if that helps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven547


	Another thing, if you have PS3....get MATTG's rosters. Since I've downloaded them, I've noticed a better gameplay experience by the CPU and they seem to be shooting more. The past 2 games, the CPU has taken a total of 60+ shots against me. One game the CPU was SJ, and the other they were Atlanta. My thoughts on this? Well, I'm now leaning more towards it being a player attribute issue more then a slider issue. Could be the OFF awr attribute? But like I said, since downloading these rosters, I've seen better gameplay. Anyway, just my thoughts.

I do have a PS3 but haven't tried his rosters yet. Did he edit player attributes? What period length have you been using?

09-30-2009, 12:15 PM	#1
Flyermania MVP OVR: 27 Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: NW Illinois Posts: 2,182 Blog Entries: 7	CPU Offensive AI -- did it get worse in NHL 10? Thought I would throw this out there as I am really struggling with it as of late. No matter what slider set or difficulty I use, the CPU just does not shoot enough. I am experimenting with sliders on Superstar and for the life of me cannot get the CPU to consistently get realistic shot totals. I have experimented with aggression, shot accuracy, AI Learning, etc. but no consistent fix. I am beginning to think it is something to do with the AI itself. Here are two common issues I see each and every game: 1) The CPU will back things up and sit in the neutral zone if you cut of the boards. They will pass or circle back until they see an opening along the boards to enter, or eventually will dump the puck in to enter the zone. This runs time off the clock and subsequently reduces their potential for more shots. 2) If I cut the CPU off along the faceoff circles, they will pass the puck repeatedly back to the blueline. Over and over...rinse and repeat. Their offense is very one dimensional in that if you cut off the faceoff circles defensively they just don't know what to do. This leads to the manic passing they do along the boards to the blueline. For that matter, my teammate AI isn't that bright either....seems that isn't much better (or is it worse?) in NHL 10. Dumping the puck can be a wasted effort as my teammates don't rush into the zone. Screening the goalie can be effective, but getting the CPU controlled players to do that can be a real chore. Last night I played on Superstar and beat the Flames 3-2 using 13 minute periods. Seems like a good game right? Well, not so much. I outshot the CPU 50-19. Not a typo. The CPU offense was pathetic, and to top it all off they kept hacking at me post-whistle and putting me on the PP. Very unrealistic as they were trailing and in the 3rd period. Why take penalties to put themselves on the PK when they are losing? It got to the point that I tried to skate away from them post-whistle just so I wouldn't go on the PP. As cool of a concept as the post-whistle stuff is, it is very poorly done. The fact that my games are still close despite the low CPU shot totals is another issue. And for that matter, I still don't see a noticeable separation of player abilities depsite have the attribute slider maxed. Sure, Ovechkin and Crosby stand out --- but I can still work wonders in the offensive sone with Riley Cote. Hopefully some of this can be patched or addressed in a tuning version update or something. Sorry for the rant...anyone else frustrated? __________________ "And by the way, you know, when you're telling these little stories? Here's a good idea - have a POINT. It makes it SO much more interesting for the listener!" Last edited by Flyermania; 09-30-2009 at 02:09 PM.

09-30-2009, 12:32 PM	#2
baa7 Banned OVR: 26 Join Date: Jul 2004	Re: CPU Offensive AI -- did it get worse in NHL 10? I know this is a useless comment given I play on Pro, but the gameplay on the lower difficulty levels is tougher this year. Primarily because CPU checking is much more aggressive. Last edited by baa7; 09-30-2009 at 12:35 PM.

09-30-2009, 12:51 PM	#4
speels Pro OVR: 4 Join Date: Feb 2004	Re: CPU Offensive AI -- did it get worse in NHL 10? I played a game last night that was one of the oddest I have played. I play on Allstar with mostly FM sliders with a few tweaks and I think matt's 2.0 rosters. I was NYI against Florida at 12 minute periods Anyway, shot were 36-35 in my favor, but I lost 6-3. There were 26 powerplays, 14 for me and 12 for the CPU. I scored on 2 and they scored on 3. My TOP was 9 min to their 6 min. I was down 4-0 after 10 min, but clawed my way back tp 4-2 before giving up a brutal giveaway and trailing 5-2. Ithen scored a quick goal with 3 minutes left and then gave up the empty netter. It was a great game, and most of the penalties were during game play, not after the whistle. Usually if I got one after the whistle it was coincidental minors. I saw a 5 min major and 2 double minors for high sticking. It was like neither team had read about the new rules of hockey and the refs had zero torlerance. haha I do notice the CPU hanging out a lot in the neutral zone, but this game it didn't seem to have too much bearing on the shot totals.

09-30-2009, 01:04 PM	#5
18 eighty 5 Yellow n Black OVR: 16 Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 926 Blog Entries: 4	Re: CPU Offensive AI -- did it get worse in NHL 10? I have had this problem every game I have played offline so far too. I even tried Dorismays sliders which are for pro level. I play on All Star but thought I would give it a go. Unfortunately I had the same problem. I was Washington against Colorado and I kept the Avs to 3 shots up to the 2nd intermission but they had annoyingly scored on 2 of them!!! I had a huge second period and led 5-2 at the end of it but my shot totals were up at about 25-30. I won the game 6-2 and out shot the cpu about 47 - 8 on 10 min periods. I just can't find the balance between realistic cpu shot totals either. The fact that they score on the low totals is also a nuisance. I tried your sliders Flyermania and I found again that the cpu would hit long flat periods where they just didn't register a shot. Its almost as if the cpu is trying to allow for boardplay so they don't shoot but hang on to the puck along the boards too long. Also I notice that the cpu still loves to look for the cross crease goal almost to the exclusion of other options. Gameplay wise there is lots to like from both yours and Dorismays sliders...its just the cpu shot totals have never been right. Every game even if I lose I out shoot my opponents by about 20 or more shots. Last edited by 18 eighty 5; 09-30-2009 at 01:08 PM.

09-30-2009, 01:45 PM	#6
kerosene31 Some say he... OVR: 20 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 1,900	Re: CPU Offensive AI -- did it get worse in NHL 10? I'm having pretty much the exact opposite experience. The defensive AI is the biggest problem this year. I'm finding CPU players making weird "pickups" when covering. Last year they were far from perfect, but at least predictable in what they would and wouldn't do. It might only happen a few times a period, but it is more than enough for the CPU to generate offense against me. My CPU d-man makes a bad read and suddenly 2-3 guys are in front of the net looking for the prefect one timer pass. If I don't spot it in time and switch control, I'm toast. The back and forth passing thing is annoying though. This stems from players in the offensive zone not moving around. Everyone gets covered and the CPU has no other options than the point. __________________ Go Sabres!

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09-30-2009, 02:54 PM	#7
Ruffy MVP OVR: 31 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Grimsby, Ontario - Canada	Re: CPU Offensive AI -- did it get worse in NHL 10? I don't play offline as of yet but I have dabled in a few play nows and see what you mean Flyer. My biggest hope for tuning is your teamates AI. Especially when you are on the PP. I find online that giving up quality chances to the SH team is often a result of your teamate AI not supporting the puck carrier in any way. This was a problem in 09 as well but so far I often fear a PP to an online opponent as any mistake in the offensive zone or in the defensive zone on a breakout and bam...breakway or big scoring chance the other way. I'm sure they can tweak it soo the wingers and other d-man supports the puck carrier to give him some outlets to get rid of the puck on a breakout. An another note i'd love the check along the boards to result in a loss of puck. The majority of the time when you get hit on the boards you can just keep going on by like nothing happened. Whereas in real life that would be the minority not the majority....id also love to see atune where you lose the puck sharp stops in an attempt to shake a defender. High puck control/puck carriers not included in this. __________________ Former Bison, Argonaut, TSN and Sportsnet employee. Gaming since the days of the NES, Atari and Intellivision. Lifelong Hartford Whaler fan.

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CPU Offensive AI -- did it get worse in NHL 10?