why do i keep hearing negative things about pro-tak?

[JohnnyNutman]

i watched the eagles/panthers game last night. right on the opening drive seeing defensive players dive for the ball carrier and assist each other in gang tackles; ball carrier trying to push for the first down. madden just looks so much more like that now.

the pockets are great. i dont have to bootleg out of the pocket on every play to get time to pass. sure, sometimes i get sacked before the play fully develops, but that happens IRL. i can actually step up in the pocket to throw a pass.

the game isnt perfect & there are still things that need to cleaned up, but overall i think they've made amazing progress in creating a more physically realistic football game. i wouldnt say im a 100% sim player (but im def not an online cheeser), but i try to play to what real football is like. however, ive always depended on the game to limit what i can do (from a physical perspective). this game has gotten it the closest ever i think.

so why all the hate towards the pro-tak system? (i play on all-pro/hardcore btw).

[boom.h]

No one is hating as far as I know. A lot of people just think Pro-Tak to be polished. For me APF 2K8 looks more like real life than Madden 10, still.

[Jesus]

you keep hearing negative things about Pro-Tak because it is nowhere near dynamic as it was touted to be.

• You have no choice to join the tackles, it just accepts you into to its exclusive group hug if you are in the area.And even then, only as many as they game wishes.

• Defenders are helpless if the game decides the offensive player will break a 12 man tackle.

• It only represents football in that its a mass amount of bodies around the ball carrier. Otherwise it looks like a scrum and not a group tackle attempt

• All the 'calculations' that were supposed to be taken into account are bogus. Ive had Willie Parker drag a couple DTs, no exaggeration.

• There is only one ( maybe 2) animations to hitstick the pile, and those opportunities are far and few between.

• Its completely and utterly canned, no stitching, no branching. Once you've seen all the animations, you can correctly state the outcome of the tackle as soon as it begins, no matter what is pressed.

I hope that clears things up for you.

[RyanMoody21]

My issue with Pro Tack which I now assume stands for "Procedural Tackling" was what made it a "Technology'. I even started a post about it before the game came out. What real world data was this based on and why did the game need up to 9 man tackles to start with? More so given the fact the game had larger outstanding issues and the current tackling system was far from flawless.

Not once did I see the term "Animation based" used in regards to Pro Tack until the M10 owners manual came out.

No offense to the OP, I really don't care how realistic Madden looks, I just want it to play realistic. Once it can do that, the realistic looking aspect will come naturally.

Pro Tack is just another animation based system that seems to not take into account physics, weight or momentum. Of course that has lead to its far share of unrealistic 60+yard "career highlight" runs from sub par players. Something Ian assured us was very rare and sporadic and would never happen frequently. Aside from that, it does some really nasty things in regards to player morphs on both sides of the ball and at times totally negates the user of control.

When all players defensive players (Dline, DB's, LB's and S's) all use the same tacking technique via the same animation, I just dont see much procedure in that.

Much like Jesus said (referring to thread above) many of us were expecting dynamic tackling where users had input into player placement and tackling style. What we got was another sequence of animations that dictates the game for us.

[JohnnyNutman]

when i said looks realistic i meant plays realistically as well. i thought that was obviously implied, but i guess not.

also, ive yet to see any ridiculous runs & broken tackles. i havent seen backup RBs beat 7 man gang tackles nor have i seen willie parker drag a DT around.

i do agree tho that i think u should have some control over ur player when u tackle the ball carrier. then again, i found out that none of the new controls are listed in the manual so who knows maybe u can.

[Gotmadskillzson]

You do have control as stated in the strategy guide and in the back of the game manual. Just use the right stick to steer the person in the direction you want them to go.

Over all I like Pro Tak, it is a great step in the right direction. I played many games and I haven't seen people or the cpu in that matter break multiple tackles at a time. Nor have I seen them drag players far.

Honestly I can't wait for NCAA 11 to have Pro Tak. People seem to forget that it took EA a few years before they made Hit Stick work smoothly. So it will be the same thing with Pro Tak.

[mems1224]

Quote: Originally Posted by JohnnyNutman

when i said looks realistic i meant plays realistically as well. i thought that was obviously implied, but i guess not. also, ive yet to see any ridiculous runs & broken tackles. i havent seen backup RBs beat 7 man gang tackles nor have i seen willie parker drag a DT around. i do agree tho that i think u should have some control over ur player when u tackle the ball carrier. then again, i found out that none of the new controls are listed in the manual so who knows maybe u can.

really? cause ive seen plenty of Rbs break at 4 man gang tackle, have about 3 other players bounce off the pile and watch as the RB runs for a 70 yard TD despite the fact that 7 people were around him.

and ive seen it done with small backs like steve slaton and warrick dunn. this is just like past madden's. once you've seen all the animations you've seen them all.

[RyanMoody21]

Quote: Originally Posted by Gotmadskillzson

You do have control as stated in the strategy guide and in the back of the game manual. Just use the right stick to steer the person in the direction you want them to go. Over all I like Pro Tak, it is a great step in the right direction. I played many games and I haven't seen people or the cpu in that matter break multiple tackles at a time. Nor have I seen them drag players far.

Well, I guess maybe it just boils down to playing time. I have a hard time imagining that a user hasn't seen a player break a gang tackle for a TD. I cant imagine that a user hasn't seen a player get drug as they "fall out" of a broken tackle. On the default All Pro or All Madden settings, I cant see it taking more than 30-40 games to see either of those.

Pro Tack was sold to us as "Dynamic" and a "Technology" that would respect players weight, speed and momentum.

Its already been proven that Pro Tack renders the hit stick mute a majority of the times. Its also been proven that Pro Tack has a strong tendency to suck players into the gang tackle animation. Just on those two examples alone, I beg to differ from a user control standpoint.