The trade logic is still horrible… here’s why based on my tests

[Therebelyell626]

So, I’ve done alot of simming with franchise since I got the game. Trying multiple different scenarios, rosters, settings and at least 10 seasons with at least 12 teams. Just really wanted to dive in under the hood and get a grasp on how everything works. One of the big selling points of this years game was the improved roster logic by the CPU. While yes there are some improvements like more balanced overalls and potentials for players, there still a lot that needs work. So through my various testing, the opening day live roster finally highlighted what to me is the biggest problem with trade logic in the game.

The biggest problem is positional balance, and the CPU prioritizing that above all else including potential and overall which should not be the case. The first few live rosters offered more positional balance, but the opening day live update adjusted players to the position they are currently listed at in real life. So what you now have is some teams being loaded at certain positions, and super thin at others. I will use the cardinals as an example. On the OD update they have 3 players listed as first baseman, and like 8 or 9 listed at shortstop. This in itself is not a problem. Players have secondary positions for a reason. Teams in real life play players at their secondary position all the time in real life so that they can get someone in the lineup who is blocked. I will use the cardinals as an example again. Nolan Gorman is a second baseman, but is a guy who came up projected as a third baseman, and would probably benefit from a move back into a position where his abilities profile better. But since the cardinals have a really good third baseman they play him at second. The problem with the CPU logic is that they completely disregard positional versatility.

So the cardinals have 3 “official” first baseman. Nevermind the fact that they also have other players that can play first base, they see that they only have 3 first baseman and panic. It’s the reason why you’ll see trades like JJ wetherholt a consensus top 30 prospect at shortstop getting traded for a C potential first baseman. In real life teams aren’t going to trade their top prospect at a loaded position just so they can have a guy at triple A who’s primary position is first base. Thats because real organizations value talent over position 9 times out of 10 and will often move guys to different positions to simulate balance in their lineup. The problem is the CPU does not have the ability to change a players primary position like the human user does. The CPU prioritizes roster balance over talent and is often why you see some of the wacky moves that happen.

What I’d like to see SDS do is possibly implement the ability for the CPU to change players positions based on fit, or even do what FIFA does. You lock a players positions based at the start of franchise but give the user the ability to “train” a player to a different position, or even add a position to their profile. The better the player fits a positions profile the quicker they can change/add that position to their profile. For instance it would be more difficult to train a 1B at SS, but if you wanted to train a first baseman to play left or right field it might only take a month of training in season.

Just some observations and thoughts I figure I’d post and see what others think

[jcar0725]

Quote: Originally Posted by Therebelyell626

So, I’ve done alot of simming with franchise since I got the game. Trying multiple different scenarios, rosters, settings and at least 10 seasons with at least 12 teams. Just really wanted to dive in under the hood and get a grasp on how everything works. One of the big selling points of this years game was the improved roster logic by the CPU. While yes there are some improvements like more balanced overalls and potentials for players, there still a lot that needs work. So through my various testing, the opening day live roster finally highlighted what to me is the biggest problem with trade logic in the game. The biggest problem is positional balance, and the CPU prioritizing that above all else including potential and overall which should not be the case. The first few live rosters offered more positional balance, but the opening day live update adjusted players to the position they are currently listed at in real life. So what you now have is some teams being loaded at certain positions, and super thin at others. I will use the cardinals as an example. On the OD update they have 3 players listed as first baseman, and like 8 or 9 listed at shortstop. This in itself is not a problem. Players have secondary positions for a reason. Teams in real life play players at their secondary position all the time in real life so that they can get someone in the lineup who is blocked. I will use the cardinals as an example again. Nolan Gorman is a second baseman, but is a guy who came up projected as a third baseman, and would probably benefit from a move back into a position where his abilities profile better. But since the cardinals have a really good third baseman they play him at second. The problem with the CPU logic is that they completely disregard positional versatility. So the cardinals have 3 “official” first baseman. Nevermind the fact that they also have other players that can play first base, they see that they only have 3 first baseman and panic. It’s the reason why you’ll see trades like JJ wetherholt a consensus top 30 prospect at shortstop getting traded for a C potential first baseman. In real life teams aren’t going to trade their top prospect at a loaded position just so they can have a guy at triple A who’s primary position is first base. Thats because real organizations value talent over position 9 times out of 10 and will often move guys to different positions to simulate balance in their lineup. The problem is the CPU does not have the ability to change a players primary position like the human user does. The CPU prioritizes roster balance over talent and is often why you see some of the wacky moves that happen. What I’d like to see SDS do is possibly implement the ability for the CPU to change players positions based on fit, or even do what FIFA does. You lock a players positions based at the start of franchise but give the user the ability to “train” a player to a different position, or even add a position to their profile. The better the player fits a positions profile the quicker they can change/add that position to their profile. For instance it would be more difficult to train a 1B at SS, but if you wanted to train a first baseman to play left or right field it might only take a month of training in season. Just some observations and thoughts I figure I’d post and see what others think

Good points. With 30 team control I've got the ability over the years to veto or undo trades, but sometimes I will let the trade go through where I can change the players main position in order to make the trade make more sense.

[dowie]

This is why before I start my franchise I balance the depth charts of all 30 teams.

I balance the depth charts for 93-man roster as well as making sure the 40-man depth chart is balanced as well.

Dowie

[strosdood]

In your tests what exact trades were made that prove that logic isn’t improved? Weatherholt was actually traded for a C potential nobody? Everything you talked about was roster management logic more than trade logic it seems like, I’m not deep into my franchise yet but so far the trades I see make sense for the most part so was just curious


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MiracleMet718]

I haven’t seen too many crazy trades. The only time I’ve seen top prospects traded for C level potential players are if they have a high overall and are an establish veteran. Also Wetherholt isn’t listed as a top prospect. He’s a 22 year old 60 overall with B potential. I think it has more to do with his rating impacting his perceived value than anything else.

The main top prospects I only saw get moved for big names. Roman Anthony got traded with a catcher to the Padres for Cease, which while it might seem a little crazy, there have been way worse trades done.

It can definitely still be improved by default, especially limiting the number of trades mid season since most happen around the deadline and also removing the position issues of not taking into account secondary positions when trading. But it’s way more improved than past years.

[LowerWolf]

This is one reason I like using the default roster; it tends to be more balanced than the updates that follow it.

[Therebelyell626]

Quote: Originally Posted by strosdood

In your tests what exact trades were made that prove that logic isn’t improved? Weatherholt was actually traded for a C potential nobody? Everything you talked about was roster management logic more than trade logic it seems like, I’m not deep into my franchise yet but so far the trades I see make sense for the most part so was just curious Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes. JJ wetherholt was traded for a AAA First baseman with 72 potential. Straight up…. No kicker. Sure, JJ was only about a 66 at the time, but he has 89 potential, and is a consensus top prospect. This is just one of many instances where I see this happening. The CPU seems willing to make some really one sided trades when they are super thin at a position, and will accept a trade with nowhere near enough value. I didn’t write down every single trade I saw word for word but it is happening in every franchise with the live OD roster and happens often. You are more than welcome to go in and test yourself

[Therebelyell626]

Quote: Originally Posted by MiracleMet718

I haven’t seen too many crazy trades. The only time I’ve seen top prospects traded for C level potential players are if they have a high overall and are an establish veteran. Also Wetherholt isn’t listed as a top prospect. He’s a 22 year old 60 overall with B potential. I think it has more to do with his rating impacting his perceived value than anything else. The main top prospects I only saw get moved for big names. Roman Anthony got traded with a catcher to the Padres for Cease, which while it might seem a little crazy, there have been way worse trades done. It can definitely still be improved by default, especially limiting the number of trades mid season since most happen around the deadline and also removing the position issues of not taking into account secondary positions when trading. But it’s way more improved than past years.

What do you mean? He is literally a top 30 prospect on every major publication, and is even in the top 100 prospects when you fire up a franchise lol. What criteria are you using to judge who a “top prospect” is?