Diamond Dynasty Year in Review: Gameplay

[Steve_OS]

Over the last couple months, we've reviewed several aspects of Diamond Dynasty in MLB The Show 22....

Written By: Cory Dell

Click here to view the article.

[jrp1918]

"A swing that bad on a pitch in that location that was perfectly executed by the pitcher should not be a hit. I don’t care if bloops and bleeders happen in real baseball."

I couldn't disagree with this more and that's why the constant attempts to cater to the online crowd annoys the offline players to no end.

[papadell]

Quote: Originally Posted by jrp1918

"A swing that bad on a pitch in that location that was perfectly executed by the pitcher should not be a hit. I don’t care if bloops and bleeders happen in real baseball." I couldn't disagree with this more and that's why the constant attempts to cater to the online crowd annoys the offline players to no end.

"This type of hitting is more suitable for the offline experience in franchise. Yes, in that world I want things to be as realistic as possible. I want every nuance of this amazing game to be present there. But in Diamond Dynasty I want skill to matter."

[JoshC1977]

Quote: Originally Posted by papadell

"This type of hitting is more suitable for the offline experience in franchise. Yes, in that world I want things to be as realistic as possible. I want every nuance of this amazing game to be present there. But in Diamond Dynasty I want skill to matter."

That's fair but what has happened in the past is that changes made to accommodate one audience "bleed over" into adversely impacting the experience for the other. We've already seen this in several areas with this series where changes made strictly for H2H play (for "skill gap") adversely impacted offline players.

- MLB 20: Removing the impact of HR/9 from hitting. A terrible decision that just lead to an unrealistic proliferation of offense in the game. This was done strictly for online players because they were using cards with souped-up ratings. This forever altered the game for offline players and detracted from an important aspect of player ratings - which diminishes the role playing experience.
- MLB 20: Creation of Perfect/Perfect swings. Another terrible decision because there is no such thing as a 1:1 correlation between swing quality and outcome. No matter how difficult you make it, there will always be people that have the reflexes to push the button at the right time (which is NOT skill - just biology). If you want a sports game to have player ratings, then you CANNOT ever have a situation where perfect user input yields a perfect outcome. Professional athletes deal with this every day; and just because this is a video game does not mean it is acceptable here. A true "skill gap" means a player being able to handle player ratings and situations where it may go against you - not hitting a little line on a meter.
- MLB 21: Changes made to the discipline engine. Removing player rating impact...again (this time on checked swings). I can appreciate why this was done and to be fair, I am more understanding of why they made this change than many in the offline community, but you don't just simply remove the impact of a rating on the one thing it is supposed to represent. That detracts from the entire identity of this game as an RPG.

I understand online guys were frustrated last year but there is a very reasonable fear from offline players about HOW SDS makes changes to accommodate the online community. Remember too, SDS is collecting data from online games....not offline. So everything done in terms of balancing is going to be trickled-down, to a degree, from outcomes derived from players that play a FAR different game.

I appreciate that this article was about the gameplay in online DD, but there is another side to this story that I felt needed to be told. And as you know, I logged 100s of hours into DD offline (in addition to over 1000 hours in franchise thus far), so this is not one of those childish "DD ruined franchise" rants like we see here. But the reality is that SDS has struggled in assessing the impact of gameplay changes made for online DD and how they impact the offline community and the fear from people like myself is that this trend will continue.

So while I will not deny the need for SDS to improve the online gameplay experience, they need to do so in a manner that will accommodate the needs of all community members. Wholesale tuning of the game or the introduction of mechanics not rooted in ratings/realism, like the items referenced above, is completely unacceptable unless measures are taken to ensure that they will have no deleterious impacts on other communities.

[papadell]

Quote: Originally Posted by JoshC1977

That's fair but what has happened in the past is that changes made to accommodate one audience "bleed over" into adversely impacting the experience for the other. We've already seen this in several areas with this series where changes made strictly for H2H play (for "skill gap") adversely impacted offline players. - MLB 20: Removing the impact of HR/9 from hitting. A terrible decision that just lead to an unrealistic proliferation of offense in the game. This was done strictly for online players because they were using cards with souped-up ratings. This forever altered the game for offline players and detracted from an important aspect of player ratings - which diminishes the role playing experience. - MLB 20: Creation of Perfect/Perfect swings. Another terrible decision because there is no such thing as a 1:1 correlation between swing quality and outcome. No matter how difficult you make it, there will always be people that have the reflexes to push the button at the right time (which is NOT skill - just biology). If you want a sports game to have player ratings, then you CANNOT ever have a situation where perfect user input yields a perfect outcome. Professional athletes deal with this every day; and just because this is a video game does not mean it is acceptable here. A true "skill gap" means a player being able to handle player ratings and situations where it may go against you - not hitting a little line on a meter. - MLB 21: Changes made to the discipline engine. Removing player rating impact...again (this time on checked swings). I can appreciate why this was done and to be fair, I am more understanding of why they made this change than many in the offline community, but you don't just simply remove the impact of a rating on the one thing it is supposed to represent. That detracts from the entire identity of this game as an RPG. I understand online guys were frustrated last year but there is a very reasonable fear from offline players about HOW SDS makes changes to accommodate the online community. Remember too, SDS is collecting data from online games....not offline. So everything done in terms of balancing is going to be trickled-down, to a degree, from outcomes derived from players that play a FAR different game. I appreciate that this article was about the gameplay in online DD, but there is another side to this story that I felt needed to be told. And as you know, I logged 100s of hours into DD offline (in addition to over 1000 hours in franchise thus far), so this is not one of those childish "DD ruined franchise" rants like we see here. But the reality is that SDS has struggled in assessing the impact of gameplay changes made for online DD and how they impact the offline community and the fear from people like myself is that this trend will continue. So while I will not deny the need for SDS to improve the online gameplay experience, they need to do so in a manner that will accommodate the needs of all community members. Wholesale tuning of the game or the introduction of mechanics not rooted in ratings/realism, like the items referenced above, is completely unacceptable unless measures are taken to ensure that they will have no deleterious impacts on other communities.

The thing is I'm actually in agreement with you guys. I enjoy playing online and want to play competitively, but I LOVE playing offline. The most fun I had in 22 was playing DD offline, Play vs CPU on Legend in my created stadium. I mean the game truly was a blast.

That's why I've been such a proponent of the online side of things having a separate "competitive" playlist with different gameplay tunings than everything else.

I don't really want the offline gameplay to change. I'm not saying they can't make improvements or tweaks, but I'm generally pretty fine with offline gameplay as it is.

My big issue and the core subject of the article discussion is that online gameplay mirrors offline too much. There's no skill gap and that's a huge problem for a competitive game, especially when being peddled into the esports world.

I think SDS tries way too hard to make a one size fits all approach to gameplay and it just doesn't work. If they kept offline (including offline DD) tuned separately from the online competitive sphere, I think this discussion becomes a moot point.

[MetsFan16]

I played DD for first month and then Offline rest of the year and there is certainly a difference

Offline, the game makes sense. Hits are hits, outs are outs, home runs happen when good swings are put on the ball, but when I play DD, no matter the mode (RS, BR, Offline DD), something doesn’t feel right. Can’t quite explain and maybe it’s just having a lineup full of 95+ OVR compared to a franchise game

But I am fearful SDS will see all of the feedback from the DD crowd again and make a bigger deal of the hitting engine than needs to be.

I personally like the hitting engine and feel it represents real life baseball rather well.

I do know it’s not perfect but I can’t expect that from a video game


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[brunopuntzjones]

I don't think we have to worry too much about SDS giving in to hypercompetitive online players, considering that's the audience that year after year complains the most about the game. They might tweak around the concerns but I've never seen that bleed through too badly to offline play.

The thing that affects offline play in DD vs. other offline modes is just the ratings, especially once juiced cards roll out. I think 100+ attributes do have a sort of gamebreaking effect and it's one of the reasons I'd like to see them back away from juicing.

I also think it would be cool if they created a mode, either in DD or outside, that catered specifically to the kind of player who cares a lot about things like skill gaps. I think most of the audience for The Show and DD likes to collect cards and play something that's more or less simulation baseball, where some combination of your players' ratings, your abilities, and the eternal mysteries of the game produce the results. There's a very vocal minority that wants purely or primarily user input based outcomes. These two groups shouldn't be forced together and if SDS can do anything to pull them apart, everyone will be happier.