NBA Off Topic Thread

[J_Posse]

Quote: Originally Posted by Master Live 013

But that's what I find weird: "what young American player is 'must watch TV' for those audiences?". Wut. Why does that even matter? I guess subconsciously it matters. As I see it, maybe the style of play argument might track. Maybe the NBA needs a high flying, Canadian MJ/Kobe to get the league going Who thinks in those terms Like, there isn't anyone in basketball like Ohtani so can't really compare, but the heck do I care if he is Japanese and uses a translator. Guess myself not being born in the States (proper) I can't relate on this. I feel Duncan isn't the best example, he speaks English natively, played 4 years at Wake, played for Team USA. And bless his soul, he is probably a top 10 player for me, but his fundamental play style wasn't anywhere near as exciting as Jokic's (even if Jokic is also a fundamentally great player). So Duncan was "boring" (not to me) while other stars supplemented him, but do the supplementals need to be Americans? Maybe all these years of watching games in mute finally catch up to me :P

It matters because that's what has driven the NBA and interest since Bird + Magic.

People complained just 10+ years ago on forums & online that they 'hated seeing guys taking long 2-pointers,' etc and that it'd be more beneficial to take more 3's.

The way the game is played is complained about during any era (or the eras I've lived through).


Trying my best not to offend, but you being a foreigner (or foreign born) makes what I'm talking about not directed towards you. The American audience is fickle and has 1,000 things to draw their attention, so having athletes that 'look and talk like them' is important.

And you (and myself) might enjoy Jokic's style of play (not sure I would call it "exciting") the casual viewing audience sees him differently. They see a pudgy, unathletic guy that is 'more into horses' & only plays basketball because.

Anyway, I'm not dismissing that the current style of play is harmful (it might be), yet that has always been brought into question (or complained about).

The league not having a 'successor' to the big American stars and having 'too much' parity happened once before in the 1970's. Which was also considered the biggest down period in league history and was only saved by Magic & Bird in the 80's.

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[dubcity]

I do dislike the "NBA ratings are down because Popovitch/Kerr/etc are political" piling-on nonsense. Turning a press conference into your own podcast isn't my ideal situation, but I don't think it matters.

I think my darkhorse hot take on this is that the exponential increase in player movement the past 5-10 years has led to zero sense of team identity and team rivalry, and therefore regular season matchups have even less meaning and drama. The turnover and movement has ramped up crazy, to the point that it's hard to find a story in most games, beyond aging star player on his 4th team vs other star player on his 3rd team, and that's a pretty weak story.

It also plays into what others have talked about; specifically the obsession with the "when is he leaving, where is he going" rumor mill that pops up constantly everywhere. And players don't seem to hate the attention they get from all that.

[crashnebula]

Certainly, the lowering of the stakes that has happened in the last 10 years or so has probably made interest decrease. That includes star players moving around so frequently, "super teams" forming and breaking up on a whim, load management getting excessive, the way there are always star players out come Playoff time, the prevalence of podcasts and social media use by top stars, and more... the general vibe of the league just isn't as competitive at it once was, save for a handful of stars like Giannis, Ant and Jimmy Butler. Hell, the prevailing joke about the best player in the league is that he doesn't even want to be there.

The biggest draw for sports fans historically are great rivalries - Magic vs. Bird, Conor vs. Khabib, Rock vs. Austin (OK it's not a sport but you get the idea), these kinds of high stakes rivalries are what drives business for sports leagues. Probably a big reason why the last Finals that did historic ratings was Warriors vs. Cavs. It's kind of a shame because I do enjoy parity and seeing different teams contending for titles, but it's hard to argue that familiar feuds and faces are what keep casual fans engaged.

[Master Live 013]

So many factors converging, but out of everything, the worst thing is how Silver seems to have been caught flat footed. His big move has been the NBA Cup...

[ProfessaPackMan]

Quote: Originally Posted by J_Posse

And you (and myself) might enjoy Jokic's style of play (not sure I would call it "exciting") the casual viewing audience sees him differently. They see a pudgy, unathletic guy that is 'more into horses' & only plays basketball because. Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

Agreed with everything you said but this part also stands out as well. Even your description of him is a big part why a lot of the gym slob types like him. He looks like them except he’s actually good at Basketball lol.

Jokic is a dawg but he(along with majority of the stars currently)looks like someone who just shows up for a job, clocks in and then clocks out and people don’t want to “feel” like they’re just watching guys at work.

It’s like how in Wrestling, we knew Rock-Austin didn’t really HATE each other off TV. But when they were in the ring, shooting a promo, you couldn’t have told us they didn’t hate each other because they gave that impression.

[l3ulvl]

I'll throw another idea out there, most fans (myself included) don't really understand the nuance of basketball enough to articulate conversationally in a group setting the way you can when you watch football


There's always something to talk about during/after every single play in football. Was that a hold, was that a catch, why didn't the coach call TO? Every single play in football has SOMETHING



NBA can be confusing and looks like every team is just running the same sets over and over because we don't get it, so the talking point becomes flopping or crying (oh man LeBron cried last night while actually getting the call, it was wild lol).


I don't really think it has anything to do with American or foreign faces, it's just difficult to find cogent talking points during a basketball game. Football fans "know" all the rules and everyone has commentary "he didn't complete the process", or "that should've been DPI"


even my layman *** knows SOME things in basketball just from playing 2K, but anyone who has watched football has been constantly schooled about the rules and reviews and challenges and the constant stoppages allow for more and more conversation, basketball struggles with that unless there's a close game late

[ZenithMage]

I been thinking about this since I'm trying to get better at irl basketball.


What nba player you want to be like when playing irl basketball? For me I want to be like Prime Tracy McGrady aka Tmac

[Majingir]

Quote: Originally Posted by crashnebula

The biggest draw for sports fans historically are great rivalries - Magic vs. Bird, Conor vs. Khabib, Rock vs. Austin (OK it's not a sport but you get the idea), these kinds of high stakes rivalries are what drives business for sports leagues. Probably a big reason why the last Finals that did historic ratings was Warriors vs. Cavs. It's kind of a shame because I do enjoy parity and seeing different teams contending for titles, but it's hard to argue that familiar feuds and faces are what keep casual fans engaged.

It's crazy how I almost can't name any of the finals since 2020, but as soon as I look at the list I remember who won and who they faced.

Ever since 2020 the ratings took a huge dive. Obviously the 2020 finals was different, but even Warriors-Celtics in 2020 didn't do great numbers. I'm sure a big part of that is also people changing the way they watch things (people really took more to streaming during the pandemic) but also like you said, there's no rivalries/stories to look forward to.

We also have only had a single finals the last decade that went to a game 7, so that makes things less interesting when after 3 or 4 games you have a good idea who's winning (only 3 of the 10 times in the last decade where the finals didn't go to a game 7 was the series even tied 2-2 after 4).


The wrestling analogy is a good one too. In wrestling, even if the people facing off might put on a great match, if fans don't care about it or aren't as invested in it, it won't matter. But when you have the stories and rivalry and all that mixed in, it makes things so much better.